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Posted: 1/24/2006 6:09:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 6:10:00 PM EDT by Rune75]
Just what the title says... I made 3 of them at work today. Can we shoot ammo at them safely? If so, how can we mount them vertically for shooting at?

I can make more so long as you guys want them and I can find more scrap around to plasma cut.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:38:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 6:39:02 PM EDT by AssaultPossum]
It depends on the type. Do you know what it is? If its really mild steel then it would likely stop HG ammo but not rifle (other than 22rf). However, I would say theyre OK to shoot. Just be aware they may deform or perforate. I made some slihouettes out of AR500 a while back and theyve held up really well. Ive shot them w/ everything I could get my hands on from 22rf to 30-06 w/o any problems. Although I havent tryed it AR400 is supposed to work OK too (got this info from the OR target guy at the Puyallup gunshow). The characteristics you're looking for in the material are high impact and high abrasion.

I tryed welding hangers to my steel animals w/ 7018 rods and that didnt work at all well. The welds eventually cracked and required repair. The target guy I mentioned that welding AR500 is a huge pain so someone who's a really welder will have to give guidance there. I do know that in order to get a good weld you need to preheat the steel and then weld w/ 7018. Where I went wrong I dont know...perhaps it also needed post heat too. I finally flame cut smallish holes in the top edge of my targets and hung them w/ heavy wire which worked OK. In any event you want the target to swing freely so that it and the mounting dont have to absorb the full impact of the projectile. Also this minimizes back splatter. If you can get you targets (assuming you want them in a particular shape) plasma cut. Flame cutting (at least in my case) caused the material close to the edges to loose some toughness.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:34:17 PM EDT
I made an extra strength wood frame to hang my boiler plate steel (pistol resistant only). I drilled two 3/8" holes in the top corner and bought some bolts and chains to hang it with.

If you can drill holes in it, it is probably not rifle worthy unless you have some serious drill power, and you can hang 'em from my frame.

If you don't have a drill between now and then, we can have Tumbleweed put a couple of well placed 30 caliber rounds through it.

If it is drill resistant, or involves welding, then wait for one of the heavy metal guys to chime in...there are plenty of em here.

General rule of thumb I am working under these days:
--Rifle at least 100 yards away.
--Pistol at least 20 yds, except jacketed ammo about 35yd. Slow bullets tend to form little mini-pancakes, fast bullets self-pulverize into lead dust and copper jackets can bounce back 30 yards.

White spray paint is best, yellow is 2nd best.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:49:38 PM EDT
Yes, its carbon steel. Im not feeling brave enough to take HY80 or HY100 out of there.
I've been using 3/32" 8018C3 rod the last few days I've been in the prefab barn. I could just cut the plates at 12"x14"xXX" then with the extra 2" I can just plasma cut holes instead of needing to attach hangers with tack welds.

If you're having problems with brittleness, you might be welding dissimilar metals? Do you heat your rod before welding? We keep our 7018/8018 around 225F before we check it out for use (and we're only allowed to have it away from the oven for 8 hours before being required to turn it back in to reheat). We never bother preheating HS for welding. On the other hand, HY80 or HY100, needs to be at least ambient (60F) or up to a couple hundred degress (depending on the needs of the metal)

Think 1/4" or 3/8" HS would take a 5.56?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:53:07 PM EDT
I'll bring my .30 cal drill and some speshul drill bits

FWIW, at the last LCR I put some of that very hard steel out at 50yds and nailed it with some .308 to see if I could leave a mark. Nope.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:22:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rune75:
Yes, its carbon steel. Im not feeling brave enough to take HY80 or HY100 out of there.
I've been using 3/32" 8018C3 rod the last few days I've been in the prefab barn. I could just cut the plates at 12"x14"xXX" then with the extra 2" I can just plasma cut holes instead of needing to attach hangers with tack welds.

If you're having problems with brittleness, you might be welding dissimilar metals? Do you heat your rod before welding? We keep our 7018/8018 around 225F before we check it out for use (and we're only allowed to have it away from the oven for 8 hours before being required to turn it back in to reheat). We never bother preheating HS for welding. On the other hand, HY80 or HY100, needs to be at least ambient (60F) or up to a couple hundred degress (depending on the needs of the metal)

Think 1/4" or 3/8" HS would take a 5.56?



On second thought your targets would probably be OK w/ the smaller cased 22s (22 hornet, 22 squirrel, 22 bee, etc). IIRC our club used mild steel for the silhouettes and a few shooters were using 22 bee in lever action rifles. I think the targets only suffered minor damage mostly in the way of bending. Im sure they wouldnt be OK w/ anything bigger like the 221FB or larger.

It sounds like youre way ahead of me in the welding cutting dept. So, I cant comment on what youve written above. Ive never heard of HYxxx steels. What are they?

The reason I mentioned pre/post heat for the AR500 was b/c the mfg recommended it based on sizes being welded. They also spec'ed 7018 rod and nothing else. Being a homeshop welder I didnt have a proper rod oven and used them cold which isnt good at all. I did the best I could w/ what I had.

Im not familiar w/ the HS steels either. As I said above youre looking for a combination of high impact and high abrasion resistance. You should be able to look that steel up in a ref book and get its specs. If it meets or exceeds AR400 or 500 you should be good to go. My targets were 5/16" and that was more than enough to handle eveything I shot it w/. I forgot to mention it was also shot many times w/ M855 which left no trace exc. a spaltter mark. You could always expeiment using a small piece and see what hurts it. Being able to make your own targets is really convenient and saves loads of money.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:40:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 11:48:14 PM EDT by Rune75]
I'd suggest baking that 7018 in your oven for a couple hours at as low of a temp as you can... 200F if possible to heat them up and take out any humidity.

It seems for us, HS=OS (High Strength=Ordinary Steel)... HY= High Yield... Not sure how much/little I can talk about this stuff, actually... lol Well, I found it on google so I guess its not that secret... the HY metal is usually used on important stuff.

Im not familliar with the AR400 or 500 specs... NEver seen them in my WP1688 weld procedure book. I"ll check again tho. Also, I'll see if I can't get a couple 5/16 thick plates cut and out of the yard. Heavy shyte in a backpack... lol
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:45:56 PM EDT
Hey Rune,

Its okay to mention the HY and such, just don't talk about specific properties of the steel.(how it welds, weld prep req's, what its used for, etc.)

Chris
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:47:29 PM EDT
Kewl... Good to know
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:13:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 7:20:19 AM EDT by AssaultPossum]
One more thing...make your targets thick enough so they dont deform. I had a cheap set of 22rf swingers that deformed rather quickly and once out of shape caused lots of ricochets.

ETA: I got my AR500 from the local steel yard. I bought a large drop (about 2' sq) which cost me only $35. At the time that was a great deal. I got 4 animals plus a couple lollypops out of it. Usually a good steel distributor will know what youre talking aobut if you ask for AR500.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:10:03 PM EDT
Any pointers where I can on picki up scrap AR500? Not sure if my usual metal sources will have that kicking around...

P

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:24:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultPossum:
One more thing...make your targets thick enough so they dont deform. I had a cheap set of 22rf swingers that deformed rather quickly and once out of shape caused lots of ricochets.

ETA: I got my AR500 from the local steel yard. I bought a large drop (about 2' sq) which cost me only $35. At the time that was a great deal. I got 4 animals plus a couple lollypops out of it. Usually a good steel distributor will know what youre talking aobut if you ask for AR500.



That is a good deal. I was told AR500 is synonymous with break the bank.

I had one made out of T1 1/2" thick. Just picked it up. Pistol I think will be fine on it but probably not rifle.

Heard that T1 has a 250 Brinell rating where as AR500 has the 500 Brinell.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:45:55 PM EDT
You can sometimes get titanium at Boeing Surplus. !! I think that will stand up to rifle and the occasional AAA.
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