I was reading the back of my kindergardener's homework today and they listed some of the things the kids said they would change about the world here are a few examples:

People would be nice to each other even if they have brown skin.

It's not fair to kill animals to eat them.

Everyone would have a house to live in.

I would be a nice bus driver.

I wish I could be president and change bad laws.

I would make sure there were no guns to hurt people.  I would make sure people had food to eat.

As I was reading these out loud to Kooter our daughter started chanting "we like guns we like guns we like to hunt we like to fish we like guns"  

I bet I get a call from the teacher soon.....

When my little one starts school I already expect to spend much time in the Principles office....

As I was reading these out loud to Kooter our daughter started chanting "we like guns we like guns we like to hunt we like to fish we like guns"

My daughter started shooting .22s just before her 5th birthday.

When about 6-7, she counterprotested the Million Moms at Seattle Center, with a sign reading "I'm already a safe shooter.  Get used to it."

Last weekend she tried an AR15 for the first time.  Not bad for 11...

I CANNOT wait to spend time in the admin office at Freeman Elementry School.

OTOH, my son's pre-school teacher thought it was pretty neat last nov when he asked to go hunt "...peasants and deers..."

Quoted: When my little one starts school I already expect to spend much time in the Principles office....

I pity the principle. You go Grrl!

my daughters weekly homework is one letter at a time.  She has to cut out pictures that start with that letter and tape them to a piece of paper, she was studing "D" a few weeks ago and was looking through a field and stream and found a dead deer and said "OH a Dead Dear would give me TWO D's!"

Quoted: my daughters weekly homework is one letter at a time.  She has to cut out pictures that start with that letter and tape them to a piece of paper, she was studing "D" a few weeks ago and was looking through a field and stream and found a dead deer and said "OH a Dead Dear would give me TWO D's!"

Ashtonn starts Kindergarten this fall, I can't wait.

Quoted: Anyhow, the rules have changed. I guess most of the people I know and like, would be on death row for the crap we pulled in school.

ditto

One of the kids I teach just recently had the brilliant idea to call a bomb threat into school.  The kid is no picnic and has a juvenile record already, he is 17.  

But with the Patriot Act in affect, he was arrested on terrorism charges.  He is being charged as an adult (which I only thought they could do if it was murder, but apparently, not).  He's an idiot, but he doesn't deserve THIS.

The rules certainly HAVE changed.

Quoted: One of the kids I teach just recently had the brilliant idea to call a bomb threat into school.  The kid is no picnic and has a juvenile record already, he is 17.   But with the Patriot Act in affect, he was arrested on terrorism charges.  He is being charged as an adult (which I only thought they could do if it was murder, but apparently, not).  He's an idiot, but he doesn't deserve THIS. The rules certainly HAVE changed.

And in some cases thank goodness the rules have changed. Making a bomb threat in these times is certainly something that should make one consider the consequences first. I believe this example does in fact deserve what his actions have brought about.

ETA: The Terroristic Threats charge has been around long before the Patriot Act and has been widely used back east.

Quoted: Quoted: One of the kids I teach just recently had the brilliant idea to call a bomb threat into school.  The kid is no picnic and has a juvenile record already, he is 17.   But with the Patriot Act in affect, he was arrested on terrorism charges.  He is being charged as an adult (which I only thought they could do if it was murder, but apparently, not).  He's an idiot, but he doesn't deserve THIS. The rules certainly HAVE changed.

And in some cases thank goodness the rules have changed. Making a bomb threat in these times is certainly something that should make one consider the consequences first. I believe this example does in fact deserve what his actions have brought about.

+1
The kid is getting EXACTLY what he deserves. At 17 years old he should at LEAST be smart enough to realize in a post 9/11 world what an idiot he is for pulling a stunt like that.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the kids I teach just recently had the brilliant idea to call a bomb threat into school.  The kid is no picnic and has a juvenile record already, he is 17.   But with the Patriot Act in affect, he was arrested on terrorism charges.  He is being charged as an adult (which I only thought they could do if it was murder, but apparently, not).  He's an idiot, but he doesn't deserve THIS. The rules certainly HAVE changed. And in some cases thank goodness the rules have changed. Making a bomb threat in these times is certainly something that should make one consider the consequences first. I believe this example does in fact deserve what his actions have brought about. +1 The kid is getting EXACTLY what he deserves. At 17 years old he should at LEAST be smart enough to realize in a post 9/11 world what an idiot he is for pulling a stunt like that.

But, let's say he gets 10 years.  He is an idiot, yes.  He is not a terrorist.  His classmates had to stand outside for an hour and then in the gym for another two hours while the dogs went through the whole school sniffing for bombs.

Should he get a punishment?  ABSOLUTELY.  Should he be charged as an adult going up on terrorism charges for being an idiot?  HELL NO.

ETA:  just to put into perspective of how much of an idiotthis kid is...  he got caught because after he called in the bomb threat, he called a handful of his friends bragging that he had done it.

The kid already has a juvenile record.  The kid has shown poor behavior, maturity, and impulse control.  Then in a post 9/11/01 America, he calls in a bomb threat.  10 years ought to be enough to either find some way to get him some kind of help he may need, force him to take a good long look at how he screwed up and decide to not screw up anymore, or it will have no effect.  Either way, none of it is your or our fault.  He could have sat on his hands and kept his mouth shut, and he wouldn't be in any trouble.

I say, with a little regret, bon voyage, kid.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the kids I teach just recently had the brilliant idea to call a bomb threat into school.  The kid is no picnic and has a juvenile record already, he is 17.   But with the Patriot Act in affect, he was arrested on terrorism charges.  He is being charged as an adult (which I only thought they could do if it was murder, but apparently, not).  He's an idiot, but he doesn't deserve THIS. The rules certainly HAVE changed. And in some cases thank goodness the rules have changed. Making a bomb threat in these times is certainly something that should make one consider the consequences first. I believe this example does in fact deserve what his actions have brought about. +1 The kid is getting EXACTLY what he deserves. At 17 years old he should at LEAST be smart enough to realize in a post 9/11 world what an idiot he is for pulling a stunt like that. But, let's say he gets 10 years.  He is an idiot, yes.  He is not a terrorist.  His classmates had to stand outside for an hour and then in the gym for another two hours while the dogs went through the whole school sniffing for bombs. Should he get a punishment?  ABSOLUTELY.  Should he be charged as an adult going up on terrorism charges for being an idiot?  HELL NO. ETA:  just to put into perspective of how much of an idiotthis kid is...  he got caught because after he called in the bomb threat, he called a handful of his friends bragging that he had done it.

gunchyck...after your intial description of the kid this item doesn't surprise me a bit. I still think the kid deserves some juvenile detention or jail time for this idiocy. A lot of 10 year olds seem to have more common sense than this clown. This isn't like tipping over an outhouse or TP someones house as a gag. This is a serious crime, even more so in post 9/11 America. I know you are there and know what this kid is like, but he sounds like bad news and a future lifelong criminal.

Quoted: The kid already has a juvenile record.  The kid has shown poor behavior, maturity, and impulse control.  Then in a post 9/11/01 America, he calls in a bomb threat.  !0 years ought to be enough to either find some way to get him some kind of help he may need, force him to take a good long look at how he screwed up and decide to not screw up anymore, or it will have no effect.  Either way, none of it is your or our fault.  He could have sat on his hands and kept his mouth shut, and he wouldn't be in any trouble. I say, with a little regret, bon voyage, kid.

Prison doesn't work like that in this world.  More than likely it will teach him to become a hardened criminal with no skills other than breaking the law.

Do you guys remember what it was like to be a kid.

Personally, I:
Drank and got my friends drunk at 13.
Shoplifted.
Tried pot.
Wrote in wet cement "Jenn and Tracy BFF" (best friends forever).
Toilet papered a house or two.
Was a passenger in an illegal drag race....

The list goes on.  I have made a lot of stupid mistakes.  No one here can say that they haven't.  I got in trouble sometimes and most of the time I didn't.  KIDS ARE DUMB.  We learn by making stupid mistakes.

Quoted: Prison doesn't work like that in this world.  More than likely it will teach him to become a hardened criminal with no skills other than breaking the law. Do you guys remember what it was like to be a kid. Personally, I: Drank and got my friends drunk at 13. Shoplifted. Tried pot. Wrote in wet cement "Jenn and Tracy BFF" (best friends forever). Toilet papered a house or two. Was a passenger in an illegal drag race.... The list goes on.  I have made a lot of stupid mistakes.  No one here can say that they haven't.  I got in trouble sometimes and most of the time I didn't.  KIDS ARE DUMB.  We learn by making stupid mistakes.

How many bomb threats did you make when you were 17? Even back when it would likely get some in school suspension or a temporary expulsion many of us would not think of it. I do believe that it is now a more serious offense than it was then.

Wow, that seems terribly severe to try the kid as an adult b/c he was stupid. Im glad Im not 17 now b/c I would almost certainly be in jail as would most of the kids I grew up w/. When I was a kid adults had some measure of common sense and understood that kids would act like kids. For sure we'd get thumped but there was no threat of jail or criminal record. IF (a big 'if' at that) the police were summoned theyd roust, threaten and generally scare the pants off us and that would be the end of it.

'The principal/school did not press charges, though they certainly could have. However, my son still got his first record with the law, (simple police report I believe), AND, an EMERGENCY EXSPULSION from the school! WTF?'

Pressed charges against a 10 yr old? Youve got to be kidding...what law would be used? This is SO wrong.

On a side note thats sort of funny now (at the time it wasnt). We were visiting the Nautilus museum at Groton, CT which required you to pass thru a metal detector at the entrance. I was last in line w/ my youngest son in front of me (I think he was 10 at the time). When it was his turn he dumped his small hygene kit (files, clippers that sort of thing) in the basket, turned around and gave me a funny look and went  thru the detector. Later on that day I asked him why he gave me the funny look. It turns out he had 6 pocket knives w/ him and wasnt sure what to do. He told me  he thought the guards were going to shoot him and he was quite releived  the alarm didnt go off. We decided  one pocket knife was plenty from then on and his collection would be save at home.

At the other end of the spectrum the high school my daughter and oldest son graduated from encouraged students to carry pocket knives and/or multitools and at certain times of the year their guns to school. We'd do an all high school shoot at the local range at least twice a year and one of the elective courses would net the students a hunting license. It sure was sweet to see all those kids pile off the bus w/ their own weapons and most were excellent shooters too.

Quoted: Where 1GR and I went to high school, it was very common to see hunting rifles in the rifle racks in pickups in the parking lot. There were plenty of fist fights in those parking lots too.... but no one ever thought of the guns as weapons.... we just thought of them as tools, no different than a pocket knife or a multitool. Times are a changin'....

Same here...in many respects those were better days.

Quoted: Quoted: 'The principal/school did not press charges, though they certainly could have. However, my son still got his first record with the law, (simple police report I believe), AND, an EMERGENCY EXSPULSION from the school! WTF?' Pressed charges against a 10 yr old? Youve got to be kidding...what law would be used? This is SO wrong. I'm not sure what law would be used, and, I'm grateful I didn't have to find out. During the visit to the school to take my son home, the officer asked if the school would be pressing charges, and the principal declined, saying the matter would be dealt with at the school level..... but maybe it was an act for my son...? IMO, the pricipal did exactly what he was supposed to, according to his jobs guidelines. He covered his ass, and the schools. Even if I didn't like it, I'd expect him to do his job. So did the po-po. It's the shitheads blowing in the political wind that have my ire about this deal. Where 1GR and I went to high school, it was very common to see hunting rifles in the rifle racks in pickups in the parking lot. There were plenty of fist fights in those parking lots too.... but no one ever thought of the guns as weapons.... we just thought of them as tools, no different than a pocket knife or a multitool. Times are a changin'....

I kept a .22 singleshot in my shop locker part of the school year whilst making a stock for it. It laid around on one of the work table s just about every day while I was doing the fitting. When I finished we took out back of the school and the class took turns shooting it to celebrate. And I don't remember the teacher clearing that with any one. During deer season the parking lot was  full of car and trucks with with guns in them. Sometimes two or three.

I spent a bit of time taking to the younger members of my family this summer. It was very interesting to hear their take on things. None of them believed that the last 7 miles home takes a half hour on my commute. Only one of them knew what a latte was. All the boys know how to skin various animals and several of the girls too. All the boys pulled pocket knives out when I asked if they had one. A couple of the girls too. They all liked to fish. All the girls bait their own hook, although a couple of them agreed vehemently that worms are "icky" and smell bad too. None of them drink coffee in any form (That's for grownups). They were all surprised I can't shoot anywhere close to my house and that you actually go some place special to shoot versus stepping out back (one of my cousins who lives in town said, "that sucks but I understand, I have to walk over across the road to the woods to shoot.) All of them know what guns are and have shot them. One of the littler girls (IIRC she's 6) told me your "only supposed to touch guns if momma lets you". And then she's supposed to help you hold them. Very big eyed and serious as she said it. All of them have been spanked, several spoke of the dreaded switch.

Quoted: Prison doesn't work like that in this world.  More than likely it will teach him to become a hardened criminal with no skills other than breaking the law. We learn by making stupid mistakes.

Prison is what the "client" wants it to be, within certain limits, of course.  How difficult would it be during a 10 year stint to get a college degree completely paid for by the taxpayers?  Probably easier than it would be for many of us to get the same full financial aid that someone fresh from a foreign country gets easily.  Oh yeah, it's easy for me to say, never having been in prison, but if I didn't have to worry about how my three hots and a cot are getting paid for, had access to an extensive library, and folks that will help me get an education at no or very low cost, I'd be all over that like fleas on a dog.

Stop apologizing for a 17 YO kid.  Unless he has some sort of real, not PC apologist style, mental retardation and cannot grasp the consequences of his actions, then he will get what he gets for not only opening that door but walking through the doorway.  With so many ways and resources for a 17 YO kid to get it right, he simply chose not to.  Yeah, it's sad.  There really are more important things in this world to cry about.  Have a nice trip, kid.  Read a few books while your there.

DUPE!

Guess who beat you to it at 0330?  In GD, no less. . .

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=430504

Quoted: DUPE! Guess who beat you to it at 0330?  In GD, no less. . . www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=430504

One was posted on 1/23/06 and the other on 1/24/06.

Quoted: Quoted: DUPE! Guess who beat you to it at 0330?  In GD, no less. . . www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=430504 One was posted on 1/23/06 and the other on 1/24/06.

But I read it there first, dammit!

I guess I'm officially the WA HTF

Funny, the Wife and I were just having a conversation about the problems in our schools that weren't an issue when we were kids.

Back then:
So much of what we did was just "kids being kids."  Both at school, and at home.
Fighting was frowned upon, but it wouldn't get you expelled.
Bringing a pocketknife might get it confiscated, but you weren't going to jail for it.
Soaking green pine cones in water and chucking them at each other didn't result in assault charges.
We had BB gun wars, we made flame thrower out of those pump sprayers, we spied on the neighbors.
All that stuff is likely to result in serious problems now.
They expect kids to act as adults now...and they ignore the fact that they're NOT adults, they're going to make mistakes, learn from them (hopefully) and mature 1 lesson at a time. nobody springs from the womb knowing what society, right or wrong, expects of them.

I did a lot of fighting as a kid. I usually ended up being friends with the other guy. I'm sure some of the guys on the board made friends that way too. One day you're trying to punch his light out, the next day he's your best buddy.

Did I get in trouble for it?...oh, yes. Did my parents freak out and take me to counseling, anger management, juvenile hall? No, they did not  even tell me not to fight. Mom and Dad's advice? " Thay start it, you finish it."

Got my ass kicked one time by a girl, Kody.    Badly.   I REALLY liked her after that...good looking and she threw a mean punch.

Quoted: Got my ass kicked one time by a girl, Kody.    Badly.   I REALLY liked her after that...good looking and she threw a mean punch.

Very brave of you to admit that esp in this forum. If you dont mind me asking...what did you do to get into a fight w/ a girl??

Quoted: Be careful what you wish for. Although, I expected my kids to follow in my non-conformist, anti-establishment, anti-authority footsteps, I found out some of the rules got changed since we were there.

I think this is the crux of the problem.  We, as a group, are having a hard time trying to figure out why the rules have changed.  My guess would be competition.  Our resources are finite and our population continues to grow.  Increasing numbers of kids must compete for those resources, so our system is less tolerant of their juvenile ways.  It seems they all have to be mature at 12 - no time for childhood anymore, like it or not.  

And MSKOOTER, if my kinder brought home that sheet of examples I'd be through the roof and in the admin's office post haste.  I confront my school almost monthly about some sly "progressive" topics they slip in the worksheets but I've never seen anything as blatant as you have in your hand.  I'd be UBER PISSED.

A couple of things ...

He got in trouble for a Gerber?  Here at Ft. Lewis, Gerbers and Leatherman tools are considered tools or multitools, not knives. As such, they are exempt from the knife regulations.


Now on to the bomb threat ... He shouldn't be punished the way he is, but he should be charged, as an adult, with falsifying a police report (at a bare minimum).  What other "normal" charges go along with that?  Inciting panic?

You know how sometimes little boys, age 8 or so, will pick on the older girls( 10 or 11) they have a crush on?


Kody didn't like being picked on.

I don't remember the details leading up to it....just the resulting beating...



For the record..I didn't hit her...just stood there as she pounded me.

Mordecai said "I confront my school almost monthly about some sly "progressive" topics they slip in the worksheets but I've never seen anything as blatant as you have in your hand. I'd be UBER PISSED."

I suspect most of us want to be left alone to live life, the folks on the other side of the equation like getting involved and I think that's what it's going to take. We need invidualists and nonconformists to set aside some of their personal time and -get- -involved-. Convince yourself to see going and talking to these people as an opportunity to change the system. Sure... it will most likely be a pain in the butt most times but it's also your chance to make lasting change. So I'm glad to see that Mordecai goes in and if you ever run for school district Mordecai, I wan't to give your campaign it's first fifty bucks. 'Cause that's what it's going to take to turn stuff like this around imho. -Boyd

Quoted: You know how sometimes little boys, age 8 or so, will pick on the older girls( 10 or 11) they have a crush on? Kody didn't like being picked on. I don't remember the details leading up to it....just the resulting beating... For the record..I didn't hit her...just stood there as she pounded me.

I wondered if it was one sided (the punching that is). This must have been one of those times when the lesson had a true impact.

Quoted: Quoted: You know how sometimes little boys, age 8 or so, will pick on the older girls( 10 or 11) they have a crush on? Kody didn't like being picked on. I don't remember the details leading up to it....just the resulting beating... For the record..I didn't hit her...just stood there as she pounded me. I wondered if it was one sided (the punching that is). This must have been one of those times when the lesson had a true impact.

Well, the fact that I remember this beat down incident 25 years later clearly indicates that she left an impression. ( and probably some bruises too!)

Quoted: Mordecai said "I confront my school almost monthly about some sly "progressive" topics they slip in the worksheets but I've never seen anything as blatant as you have in your hand. I'd be UBER PISSED." I suspect most of us want to be left alone to live life, the folks on the other side of the equation like getting involved and I think that's what it's going to take. We need invidualists and nonconformists to set aside some of their personal time and -get- -involved-. Convince yourself to see going and talking to these people as an opportunity to change the system. Sure... it will most likely be a pain in the butt most times but it's also your chance to make lasting change. So I'm glad to see that Mordecai goes in and if you ever run for school district Mordecai, I wan't to give your campaign it's first fifty bucks. 'Cause that's what it's going to take to turn stuff like this around imho. -Boyd

Thanks.  That's most kind of you.  To be honest, I intended to run last year.  The position only opens up once every four years, but filing was only open for one week and it turned out to be the single week I was outta town....  Good gravy....  Oh well - there's next time.   I try not to be "that guy" too much - but my incredulation usually leaks out by conversation's end.  

Quoted: One of the kids I teach just recently had the brilliant idea to call a bomb threat into school.  The kid is no picnic and has a juvenile record already, he is 17.   But with the Patriot Act in affect, he was arrested on terrorism charges.  He is being charged as an adult (which I only thought they could do if it was murder, but apparently, not).  He's an idiot, but he doesn't deserve THIS. The rules certainly HAVE changed.

Sorry, but I seriously doubt this kid was charged under the patriot act as a terrorist.  Not for what you have described.  

What state are you in where they can only charge a 17 year old as an adult for murder?

In Jersey, And they don't charge them as adults in all cases.  Just some.  I thought that all states did that for especially grisly murders by underage kids.

The latest is that he IS being charged as an adult.  If convicted he will face 5 years in big boy prison.  I haven't heard down the grapevine what the official charge is though.