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Posted: 1/19/2006 11:00:43 AM EDT
GOAL ALERT GOAL ALERT GOAL ALERT GOAL ALERT

There are conflicting reports that the Senate Judiciary Committee MAY hold
a hearing on SB 5343, the (alleged) "gun show loophole" bill some time
next week. It is NOT on the current schedule, but the required five-day
notice may be waived. Washington Ceasefire has published an e-mail
claiming the bill will be heard on Tuesday, 24 January.

IT IS IMPERATIVE that you contact members of the Senate Judiciary
Committee and express your OPPOSITION to SB 5343. You may make any of the
following points:

The "gun show loophole" is a contrived issue. All applicable federal
and state gun laws must be followed at any gun show.

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, gun shows account for
less than 1% of firearms obtained by felons. Gun and pawn shops --
all of which require background checks -- account for 12.1%.

78% of felons get their guns either from "family and friends" (usually
an illegal strawman purchase by a friend with no criminal record) or
"on the street" (i.e. the black market).

The so-called "private dealer" does not exist. Like the term "gun show
loophole" itself, "private dealer" is a gun control group oxymoron. A
private sale is a private sale, whether it occurs over your backyard
fence, at your gun club or at a gun show. And both federal and state
law already prohibit sale of a firearm to ANYONE you believe MAY be
prohibited from possessing a firearm.

For Washington Arms Collectors members, passage of SB 5343, with it's
point-of-sale background check required for every gun transfer at a gun
show will mean WAC's membership program will be effectively eliminated.

SB 5343 authorizes the Washington State Patrol to "set a reasonable
fee" for background checks at gun shows. WHY? WSP is not involved in
background checks today. Nor would they be under SB 5343. FFL
background checks go either to the FBI NICS center or to local law
enforcement officials. This amounts to a "poll tax," a fee to exercise
a constitutional right!
PLEASE CALL SENATE JUDICIARY MEMBERS TODAY!

Give them the message: "OPPOSE SB 5343. Background checks at gun shows
are unnecessary. Gun shows are NOT the problem. Failure to prosecute
strawman sales is the problem.

Call the following Senate Judiciary Committee members and urge them to
"OPPOSE SB 5343, oppose unnecessary and costly background checks at gun
shows."

You can call them direct at their Olympia office telephone number listed
below or through the toll free Legislation Hotline at 1 (800) 562-6000.


CALL TODAY


Senator Adam Kline (360) 786-7688

Senator Luke Esser (360) 786-7694

Senator James Hargrove (360) 786-7646

Senator Marilyn Rasmussen (360) 786-7602

Senator Mike Carrell (360) 786-7654

Senator Pat Thibaudeau (360) 786-7628

Senator Brian Weinstein (360) 786-7641

Senator Bob McCaslin (360) 786-7606

Senator Steve Johnson (360) 786-7692



One last thing: please forward this e-mail to anyone you believe would be interested. Please make a hard copy and post it at your gun club or leave a copy with your favorite gun shop.



Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:02:06 AM EDT
sigh

Here we go again.

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:20:10 AM EDT
The only thing about this that suprises Me is that they did not try this on the first day
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:21:48 AM EDT
Bring it...
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:11:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 12:13:32 PM EDT by STRATIOTES]

Originally Posted By Gibby:
sigh

Here we go again.




Exactly, the standard response is to try and educate the reps,, please please please rep vote intelligently here's how and now pretty please protect my rights only to have to do it over and over again hundreds of times a year winning some and losing some but on the whole we lose more than we gain.

The gov in controlled by demoncrazy's now the majority will trade votes to get bills passed that bring them the biggest payoff, reason in the support of freedom is a weak argument against economic gain, in the end reps vote the pocket book, that is just the reality of this world.

How are people with limited resources supposed to out lobby those with unlimited resources ?
How do we use reason and the desire for freedom against the lust for power and money ?


Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. -- Daniel Webster




Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:20:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
How are people with limited resources supposed to out lobby those with unlimited resources ?
How do we use reason and the desire for freedom against the lust for power and money ?





By putting pen to paper and shoe to pavement. We (law abiding Washington State gun owners) defeated Inititive 676 ten years ago.

Dollars go a long way on Capitol Hill, but ultimately it's votes that keep politicians in office.

Trey
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:55:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 2:03:13 PM EDT by STRATIOTES]

Originally Posted By twoducetrey:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
How are people with limited resources supposed to out lobby those with unlimited resources ?
How do we use reason and the desire for freedom against the lust for power and money ?





By putting pen to paper and shoe to pavement. We (law abiding Washington State gun owners) defeated Inititive 676 ten years ago.

Dollars go a long way on Capitol Hill, but ultimately it's votes that keep politicians in office.

Trey



Yes you are right Trey, we have won one here and there but add up the win loss record for the season and get back to me on how well limited resources do against unlimited resources.

As to votes the last two elections in this state show absolute vote fraud and corruption, nothing was corrected after the gov race and the same offenses happened again in the seond election.

This is old and improvements have been made since then but it is a pretty good short and simple explanation of one remedy still available, Authority and power of the people.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:42:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:


Exactly, the standard response is to try and educate the reps,, please please please rep vote intelligently here's how and now pretty please protect my rights only to have to do it over and over again hundreds of times a year winning some and losing some but on the whole we lose more than we gain.

The gov in controlled by demoncrazy's now the majority will trade votes to get bills passed that bring them the biggest payoff, reason in the support of freedom is a weak argument against economic gain, in the end reps vote the pocket book, that is just the reality of this world.

How are people with limited resources supposed to out lobby those with unlimited resources ?
How do we use reason and the desire for freedom against the lust for power and money ?


Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. -- Daniel Webster





and exactly what direct actions do you plan on taking this legislative session to keep the antigun bills from passing?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:16:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
and exactly what direct actions do you plan on taking this legislative session to keep the antigun bills from passing?



This is old and improvements have been made since then but it is a pretty good short and simple explanation of one remedy still available, Authority and power of the people.

read the link if you please
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:27:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
and exactly what direct actions do you plan on taking this legislative session to keep the antigun bills from passing?



This is old and improvements have been made since then but it is a pretty good short and simple explanation of one remedy still available, Authority and power of the people.

read the link if you please



Really it's a lovely link but it says nothing about any direct actions you plan on taking this legislative session to keep the antigun bills from passing, which was the question to you.

If you somehow feel that I've missed something at that link that indicates direct actions you are planning on taking this legislative session to keep antigun bills from passing, feel free to point it out.

Training is not a direct action to influence legislation.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:32:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Training is not a direct action to influence legislation.


certainly not, the law is designed to gain peace without bloodshed.

organization, the local jural society is job one, this leads to the highest authority in the land in the local jurisdiction.

We have the power only if we use it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:54:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Training is not a direct action to influence legislation.


certainly not, the law is designed to gain peace without bloodshed.

organization, the local jural society is job one, this leads to the highest authority in the land in the local jurisdiction.

We have the power only if we use it.



sigh

Your plan for direct action this legislative session is to form an organization?

I'm asking about the next 49 days (we are on day 11 of a 60 day session). The immediate need is to keep the bills currently proposed from being enacted, not a long term strategic pipe dream plan.

Long term plans are needed but that's not the question being asked of you.

Friday Feb 3rd is the first critical date as it's the date that bills need to generally pass out of their original
committee (other than finance bills). Any plans to do something by then?

Thursday Feb 14th is the second critical date, as it's the final day to generally consider bills in their house of origin. Any plans to do something by then?

There are 9 senators offices that have phone messages from me from today alone. That's part of my personal plan of action for this legislative session.
.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:05:33 PM EDT

There are conflicting reports that the Senate Judiciary Committee MAY hold
a hearing on SB 5343, the (alleged) "gun show loophole" bill some time
next week. It is NOT on the current schedule, but the required five-day
notice may be waived. Washington Ceasefire has published an e-mail
claiming the bill will be heard on Tuesday, 24 January.



This sounds suspiciously like members of the senate judicial committee are scheduling hearings but only telling the side that they support. That's got to look cheesy as hell to people with a clue.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:29:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By donbcivil:

There are conflicting reports that the Senate Judiciary Committee MAY hold
a hearing on SB 5343, the (alleged) "gun show loophole" bill some time
next week. It is NOT on the current schedule, but the required five-day
notice may be waived. Washington Ceasefire has published an e-mail
claiming the bill will be heard on Tuesday, 24 January.



This sounds suspiciously like members of the senate judicial committee are scheduling hearings but only telling the side that they support. That's got to look cheesy as hell to people with a clue.



It's on the offical schedule now



Judiciary* - 01/24/06 3:30 pm
Senate Full Committee
Senate Hearing Rm 1
J. A. Cherberg Building
Olympia, WA

REVISED 01/19/06 4:38 PM

Public Hearing:

1. SB 5343 - Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events.
2. SB 6404 - Regarding the certification of tribal police officers.
3. SB 6492 - Authorizing conversion of legal financial obligations to community restitution.
4. SB 6572 - Revising the unlawful detainer process under the residential landlord-tenant act.
5. SB 6547 - Clarifying procedures for sound and video recordings by law enforcement officers.
6. SB 6590 - Changing the effective date of the uniform interstate family support act.


Possible executive session on bills heard in committee. Other business.

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:30:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 7:33:40 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

GOAL ALERT GOAL ALERT GOAL ALERT GOAL ALERT

IT’S SHOWTIME!

PUBLIC HEARING ON SB 5343

The schedule has been amended. There WILL be a public hearing on SB 5343
(“gun show loophole”) next Tuesday.

WHO: Senate Judiciary Committee

WHAT: Public hearing on SB 5343

WHERE: Senate Hearing Room 1

John A. Cherberg Building

Capitol Campus

Olympia

WHEN: Tuesday, 24 January

3:30—5:30 p.m.

It is important that as many individuals as possible attend this
hearing. Last year when the Judiciary Committee ran several anti-gun
bills in one hearing, nearly 400 gun owners showed up and sent a clear
message to the legislature:

DON’T MESS WITH THE GUN LOBBY

We need a repeat performance this year. Last year Washington Ceasefire
and other gun control proponents were unprepared. About a dozen showed
up, with weak testimony. And our show of strength convinced committee
members to keep those bills right there in committee, where they died
later in the session.

Parking at the campus is very tight. Plan to carpool, and plan to park
in an overflow lot about 4-5 blocks east of the campus. A shuttle will
carry you to the Cherberg Building.

It’s not necessary to testify, just be there to lend support to other
gun owners there. Wear your NRA cap, or gun club cap, or Cabela’s cap,
or your gun club or WAC badge. You don’t have to wear a three piece
suit, but your attire should be clean and neat. Camouflage isn’t
necessary – we’re not trying to hide! Let everyone knows who sees you
that you’re there to protect your rights.

And remember, this is Olympia, not D.C.. The Second Amendment is a
federal issue. Washington’s constitutional right-to-keep-and-bear-arms
provision is Article 1, Section 24, and it’s clearer than the 2nd
Amendment: “The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense
of himself or the state shall not be impaired…” Pretty clear.

When the hearing room opens (usually about 3:20 or 3:25), staff will lay
out sign-in sheets on a table in the back of the room. First in line
should be the sheet for SB 5343. Sign in with your name, address,
telephone number and e-mail address (the last two are optional). Add
“CON” (against) for a position on the bill. Fill in “yes” or “no” if you
wish or do not wish to testify. Copies of the bill and a bill summary
will be on the table as well.

If you want testify, remember: you’re limited to three minutes maximum
(the chair may only give you two minutes); you cannot attack anyone’s
motives (no Washington Ceasefire name-calling!); start with your name
and where you’re from; try to limit your testimony to one or two
specific points; and if someone else has already that point, choose
another one or defer to the next person.

IF YOU CAN’T MAKE IT TO OLYMPIA (and even if you can be there), IT IS
IMPERATIVE that you contact members of the Senate Judiciary Committee
and express your OPPOSITION to SB 5343. The following points may be
helpful:

The "gun show loophole" is a contrived issue. All applicable federal

and state gun laws must be followed at any gun show.

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, gun shows account for

less than 1% of firearms obtained by felons. Gun and pawn shops --

all of which require background checks -- account for 12.1%.

78% of felons get their guns either from "family and friends" (usually

an illegal strawman purchase by a friend with no criminal record) or

"on the street" (i.e. the black market).

The so-called "private dealer" does not exist. Like the term "gun show

loophole" itself, "private dealer" is a gun control group oxymoron. A

private sale is a private sale, whether it occurs over your backyard

fence, at your gun club or at a gun show. And both federal and state

law already prohibit sale of a firearm to ANYONE you believe MAY be

prohibited from possessing a firearm.

For Washington Arms Collectors members, passage of SB 5343, with it's

point-of-sale background check required for every gun transfer at a gun

show will mean WAC's membership program will be effectively eliminated.

SB 5343 authorizes the Washington State Patrol to "set a reasonable

fee" for background checks at gun shows. WHY? WSP is not involved in

background checks today. Nor would they be under SB 5343. FFL

background checks go either to the FBI NICS center or to local law

enforcement officials. This amounts to a "poll tax," a fee to exercise

a constitutional right!

PLEASE CALL SENATE JUDICIARY MEMBERS TODAY!

Give them the message: "OPPOSE SB 5343. Background checks at gun shows

are unnecessary. Existing law already makes it a felony for ANYONE to
deliver a firearm to a person the seller has reason to believe is
prohibited from possessing a firearm. Gun shows are NOT the problem.
Failure to prosecute

strawman and black market sales is the problem.

Call the following Senate Judiciary Committee members and urge them to

"OPPOSE SB 5343, oppose unnecessary and costly background checks at gun

shows."

You can call them direct at their Olympia office telephone number listed

below or through the toll free Legislation Hotline at

1 (800) 562-6000.

CALL TODAY

Senator Adam Kline (360) 786-7688

kline.adam@leg.wa.gov

Senator Luke Esser (360) 786-7694

esser.luke@leg.wa.gov

Senator James Hargrove (360) 786-7646

hargrove.jim@leg.wa.gov

Senator Marilyn Rasmussen (360) 786-7602

rasmussen.marilyn@leg.wa.gov

Senator Mike Carrell (360) 786-7654

carrel.michael@leg.wa.gov

Senator Pat Thibaudeau (360) 786-7628

thibaudeau.pat@leg.wa.gov

Senator Brian Weinstein (360) 786-7641

weinstein.brian@leg.wa.gov

Senator Bob McCaslin (360) 786-7606

mccaslin.bob@leg.wa.gov

Senator Steve Johnson (360) 786-7692

johnson.stephen@leg.wa.gov

One last thing: please forward this e-mail to anyone you believe would
be interested. Please make a hard copy and post it at your gun club or
leave a copy with your favorite gun shop.



Text of SB 5343 is available here:
apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?year=2006&bill=5343
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:47:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

It's on the offical schedule now



Judiciary* - 01/24/06 3:30 pm
Senate Full Committee
Senate Hearing Rm 1
J. A. Cherberg Building
Olympia, WA

REVISED 01/19/06 4:38 PM

Public Hearing:

1. SB 5343 - Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events.
2. SB 6404 - Regarding the certification of tribal police officers.
3. SB 6492 - Authorizing conversion of legal financial obligations to community restitution.
4. SB 6572 - Revising the unlawful detainer process under the residential landlord-tenant act.
5. SB 6547 - Clarifying procedures for sound and video recordings by law enforcement officers.
6. SB 6590 - Changing the effective date of the uniform interstate family support act.


Possible executive session on bills heard in committee. Other business.




Would it be productive to show up at this hearing?

Trey
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:48:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twoducetrey:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

It's on the offical schedule now



Judiciary* - 01/24/06 3:30 pm
Senate Full Committee
Senate Hearing Rm 1
J. A. Cherberg Building
Olympia, WA

REVISED 01/19/06 4:38 PM

Public Hearing:

1. SB 5343 - Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events.
2. SB 6404 - Regarding the certification of tribal police officers.
3. SB 6492 - Authorizing conversion of legal financial obligations to community restitution.
4. SB 6572 - Revising the unlawful detainer process under the residential landlord-tenant act.
5. SB 6547 - Clarifying procedures for sound and video recordings by law enforcement officers.
6. SB 6590 - Changing the effective date of the uniform interstate family support act.


Possible executive session on bills heard in committee. Other business.




Would it be productive to show up at this hearing?

Trey



In a word.....yes
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PCR-00:

Would it be productive to show up at this hearing?

Trey



In a word.....yes

I'll talk to my boss and see about getting out early. I work 15 minutes from the Capitol. Any WAHTF peeps planning on attending?

Trey

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:45:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twoducetrey:

Would it be productive to show up at this hearing?

Trey



Last year the progun people outnumbered the antis by 30-1. There were about 300 pro-10 antis

Senator Kline will never admit it but having 290 individual citizens there to counter the appx 10 PAID anti gun lobbyists made an impression.

Last year they heard all of the gun bills in one session
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:07:39 PM EDT

Senator Kline will never admit it but having 290 individual citizens there to counter the appx 10 PAID anti gun lobbyists made an impression.


Hope to see ya there, then.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:36:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:


Your plan for direct action this legislative session is to form an organization?

I'm asking about the next 49 days (we are on day 11 of a 60 day session). The immediate need is to keep the bills currently proposed from being enacted, not a long term strategic pipe dream plan.

Long term plans are needed but that's not the question being asked of you.

Friday Feb 3rd is the first critical date as it's the date that bills need to generally pass out of their original
committee (other than finance bills). Any plans to do something by then?



Draconian RCW's work in my favor, why would I work to stop them when it is both Federal and State code that is the real problem.

So a few pro-gun activists go to Olympia with brooms and try to sweep the tide back out to sea, you most certainly will have some success just as you have had success defeating new legislation in the last session but on the whole the state suffers more restrictions and nothing is done about the unconstitutional codes already on the books.

You are correct I am not worried about short term additional legislation, I am concerned with returning the state to the rule of law and a peaceful prosperous society.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:57:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 11:00:25 AM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:


Your plan for direct action this legislative session is to form an organization?

I'm asking about the next 49 days (we are on day 11 of a 60 day session). The immediate need is to keep the bills currently proposed from being enacted, not a long term strategic pipe dream plan.

Long term plans are needed but that's not the question being asked of you.

Friday Feb 3rd is the first critical date as it's the date that bills need to generally pass out of their original
committee (other than finance bills). Any plans to do something by then?



Draconian RCW's work in my favor, why would I work to stop them when it is both Federal and State code that is the real problem.

So a few pro-gun activists go to Olympia with brooms and try to sweep the tide back out to sea, you most certainly will have some success just as you have had success defeating new legislation in the last session but on the whole the state suffers more restrictions and nothing is done about the unconstitutional codes already on the books.

You are correct I am not worried about short term additional legislation, I am concerned with returning the state to the rule of law and a peaceful prosperous society.




Care to enumerate any legislative successes over the past decade or so that have been the result of attempts to put common law courts into action ?

We who challenged Olympia last year can point to the long list of antigun bills that were heard but stayed in commitee and know that we had a hand in that, and some of us are prepared to carry the standard forward again this year.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:32:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Care to enumerate any legislative successes over the past decade or so that have been the result of attempts to put common law courts into action ?

We who challenged Olympia last year can point to the long list of antigun bills that were heard but stayed in commitee and know that we had a hand in that, and some of us are prepared to carry the standard forward again this year.



Same methods and same results is the definition of insanity, attempts to restore common law through statuatory legislation is insane because it is backwards, America was founded in common law it is superior to statuatory law however through lack of education every possible wrong method has ben attempted to restore real law by the wrong means.

Common law is not a top down pyramid system of law, it is a bottom up like a tree growing up and out with it's branches.

That means it does not start by going to Olympia, it starts by neighbors working together, each house has a elector, an elector is a competent head of the household.

The every ten Electors elect a Constable, ten households make a township, ten townships a precinct and ten precincts a county.

A precinct elects a Justice of the Peace, it also forms a 12 man jury, they adjudicate their own complaints.

The jural society, township/precinct is the highest authority for it's jurisdiction, it can order the State or County including the sheriff to stay out of it's jurisdiction.

Common law is the highest form of law and can judge both the facts and the LAW, so Federal codes like the 1934 NFA does not apply to the precinct, it is no law at all.

Most importantly you can not have law without standard weights and measures, without silver as a form of money you can not have law, only policy (codes) and thats why there has not been any remedy in law since 1933.

America has all but lost it's industrial might as a result America would lose a conventional war between super-power nations, economics is as much a part of a nations might as is it's military for the one produces the other.

The current system is doomed, it may takes years yet to die but it is doomed to total failure.
I prefer to make long term plans and fix the source of the problem rather fight against the symptoms.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:34:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 11:47:04 AM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Care to enumerate any legislative successes over the past decade or so that have been the result of attempts to put common law courts into action ?

We who challenged Olympia last year can point to the long list of antigun bills that were heard but stayed in commitee and know that we had a hand in that, and some of us are prepared to carry the standard forward again this year.



Same methods and same results is the definition of insanity, attempts to restore common law through statuatory legislation is insane because it is backwards, America was founded in common law it is superior to statuatory law however through lack of education every possible wrong method has ben attempted to restore real law by the wrong means.

Common law is not a top down pyramid system of law, it is a bottom up like a tree growing up and out with it's branches.

That means it does not start by going to Olympia, it starts by neighbors working together, each house has a elector, an elector is a competent head of the household.

The every ten Electors elect a Constable, ten households make a township, ten townships a precinct and ten precincts a county.

A precinct elects a Justice of the Peace, it also forms a 12 man jury, they adjudicate their own complaints.

The jural society, township/precinct is the highest authority for it's jurisdiction, it can order the State or County including the sheriff to stay out of it's jurisdiction.

Common law is the highest form of law and can judge both the facts and the LAW, so Federal codes like the 1934 NFA does not apply to the precinct, it is no law at all.

Most importantly you can not have law without standard weights and measures, without silver as a form of money you can not have law, only policy (codes) and thats why there has not been any remedy in law since 1933.

America has all but lost it's industrial might as a result America would lose a conventional war between super-power nations, economics is as much a part of a nations might as is it's military for the one produces the other.

The current system is doomed, it may takes years yet to die but it is doomed to total failure.
I prefer to make long term plans and fix the source of the problem rather fight against the symptoms.



It seems that none would have sufficed as an appropriate answer to both of the main questions I've asked of you in this thread.

Static friction almost always being much higher than sliding friction, I choose to win now and to keep on winning as the battles arise rather than depend on one desperate swing at an attempt to hit a home run.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:46:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
It seems that none would have sufficed as an appropriate answer to both of the main questions I've asked of you in this thread.



Disagree, you offer no soltuon at all, you free no one that does not belong in prison, your method doesnt provide remedy to the injured party and does not discourage crime.

The return to the rule of law is retroactive, it frees those wrong-fully held captive and provides for punitive damages, and is thus a real solution.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:50:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
It seems that none would have sufficed as an appropriate answer to both of the main questions I've asked of you in this thread.



Disagree, you offer no soltuon at all, you free no one that does not belong in prison, your method doesnt provide remedy to the injured party and does not discourage crime.

The return to the rule of law is retroactive, it frees those wrong-fully held captive and provides for punitive damages, and is thus a real solution.




What were the main questions I've asked of you?

1)

and exactly what direct actions do you plan on taking this legislative session to keep the antigun bills from passing?


2)

Care to enumerate any legislative successes over the past decade or so that have been the result of attempts to put common law courts into action ?


Your answers to both were equal to you having no plans and no successes to point to.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 11:58:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 12:03:10 PM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
It seems that none would have sufficed as an appropriate answer to both of the main questions I've asked of you in this thread.



Disagree, you offer no soltuon at all, you free no one that does not belong in prison, your method doesnt provide remedy to the injured party and does not discourage crime.

The return to the rule of law is retroactive, it frees those wrong-fully held captive and provides for punitive damages, and is thus a real solution.




What were the main questions I've asked of you?

1)

and exactly what direct actions do you plan on taking this legislative session to keep the antigun bills from passing?


2)

Care to enumerate any legislative successes over the past decade or so that have been the result of attempts to put common law courts into action ?


Your answers to both were equal to you having no plans and no successes to point to.



If the two of you could just work with eachother you may get something done...

Phil, You can win every little battle and still lose the war.

James, Phil is right on one the one swing homerun plan, You are on the right track in my mind, just one heck of a chunk to bite at once..(You cant win a war when your troops cant get a victory every now and then, they get burnt out and become broken).
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 12:02:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Your answers to both were equal to you having no plans and no successes to point to.



You are working awfully hard at discouraging any meaningful solution to the problems we face, if you focuss only on the symptoms and do not adress the cause it will prove fatal.

We must return to the founding ideals of America and state consitution, everything else is doomed.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 12:21:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 12:43:20 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Your answers to both were equal to you having no plans and no successes to point to.



You are working awfully hard at discouraging any meaningful solution to the problems we face, if you focuss only on the symptoms and do not adress the cause it will prove fatal.

We must return to the founding ideals of America and state consitution, everything else is doomed.



I'm working hard at discouraging something? This is coming from the guy who poo-poos the work that HAS kept our gunrights in place? That's darn funny.


I've been in WA since late in 1998, working via Olympia nearly all of that time to keep my gun rights, I've lost none in that time.

There are five voicemails waiting for me at home from Olympia in response to my phonecalls of yesterday, to be heard you must get their attention.

For 15 to 20 years that I know of attempts have been made to establish local or state common law courts. Where are the successes? Where are the results of that work? What can you point to?

There is an in your face fight to be fought head on on Tuesday, I'll be there doing it, you can sit it out while you wait to see if your grand plan falls into place or into pieces, but I won't do so.
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