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Posted: 1/3/2006 10:29:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 10:30:03 AM EDT by RedDawg6]
Right before the Christmas the company that I work for (a very large aircraft manufacturing company) sent out one of those diversity emails looking for nominations for the best African American Engineeer of the year award. I was personally offended by this and I replied with:

This is a load of crap! All this does is cause diversion and dissention within the ranks.
I couldn't help but notice that there was no category for the best Caucasian Engineer of the year.
I guess that means that "us crackers" just don't count and any contribution we can make isn't note worthy! We have people of many different races and cultures here in the IRC in Everett. We all work together and we all Get along. The one thing we all have in common is that we are all Americans. Why don't you guys make an award for The best American Engineer of the Year and do away with all this institutional racism disguised as diversity? All of The people of color and different races and cultures that I personally know would like nothing more than to be recognized as good Americans, because that is what they are. Of course that's a concept that you just don't understand!


Now this HR person is trying to bring a whole bunch of heat down on me for simply having the guts to speak my mind. I'm not backing down from what I said so it will be interesting to see how the saga plays out. I'll keep you posted. In the mean time we can all stand in a big circle and hold hands and sing Kumbiya!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:32:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 10:32:57 AM EDT by bigscrun]
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:36:36 AM EDT
Nuke them from orbit, its the only way. Goodluck, stick to your guns.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:37:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigscrun:
what is the maximum now $486.00 per week?



It was $500 a few years ago, but you could have them hold $50 a week for the IRS, so $450 basically....
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:43:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
Right before the Christmas the company that I work for (a very large aircraft manufacturing company) sent out one of those diversity emails looking for nominations for the best African American Engineeer of the year award. I was personally offended by this and I replied with:

This is a load of crap! All this does is cause diversion and dissention within the ranks.
I couldn't help but notice that there was no category for the best Caucasian Engineer of the year.
I guess that means that "us crackers" just don't count and any contribution we can make isn't note worthy! We have people of many different races and cultures here in the IRC in Everett. We all work together and we all Get along. The one thing we all have in common is that we are all Americans. Why don't you guys make an award for The best American Engineer of the Year and do away with all this institutional racism disguised as diversity? All of The people of color and different races and cultures that I personally know would like nothing more than to be recognized as good Americans, because that is what they are. Of course that's a concept that you just don't understand!


Now this HR person is trying to bring a whole bunch of heat down on me for simply having the guts to speak my mind. I'm not backing down from what I said so it will be interesting to see how the saga plays out. I'll keep you posted. In the mean time we can all stand in a big circle and hold hands and sing Kumbiya!



I would feel the same way, and say the same thing you did irt to something like that. You hit the nail on the head when you said "All this does is cause diversion and dissention within the ranks", because it does. But racisim "sells" so it will never go away.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:43:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RedDawg6:

In the mean time we can all stand in a big circle and hold hands and sing Kumbiya!



Im thinking you have a better chance of standing in the Soup and Cheese line, than trying to get us to come to your Circle Jerk.


Good luck, I agree what you had to say. and you would not even have to sign your name on it, I would be able to tell it is from you.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:55:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:04:31 AM EDT
Its all CavVets fault


Tell them you were talking it over with one of your Black friends (If you worked at my company you could get this award) and he I said it. Then you realized I was right.




And then let me come tell them why its racist, and probably prohibited by one of their very own EE rules.


Do you have an employee handbook? You need to get a copy of the EEO regs of your company, Im sure this would be a prohibited practice. I would say be careful of getting labeled an Angry White Male, and be real calm and focused on the merits of your position.

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:14:17 AM EDT
Draw down on them!!!!


Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:14:33 AM EDT
Can Caucasians born in Africa (eg Capetown), apply? They would be African American, wouldn't they?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:14:45 AM EDT
Oh I am soooo tagging this thread..


Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:20:58 AM EDT
Or ask for Equal Opportunity. Where is the Irish or Italian Engineer of the Year award?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:36:47 AM EDT
Wonder what would happen if you filed a harassment complaint? Knife cuts both ways on a deal like this. I know as a middle age straight white male I an definitely in the minority at my company.

Damn the results, PC full ahead!!!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 1:23:17 PM EDT
HR at the Lazy B is all talk. Someone will get transferred if they fight too hard. Union protection keeps those who should be fired from being fired, not that I'm saying you are one of those.


Originally Posted By bigscrun:
what is the maximum now $486.00 per week?



fortress.wa.gov/esd/portal/unemployment/benefits/wba.htm

In Washington State, the maximum Weekly Benefit Amount is $496. The minimum Weekly Benefit Amount is $112 -- no one who is otherwise eligible for benefits will receive less than this, regardless of their earnings.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:24:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Can Caucasians born in Africa (eg Capetown), apply? They would be African American, wouldn't they?




Yes, I worked with a guy who is white and was born in SA. Every chance he got he wrote down African American justy to watch people get worked up.



RedDawg6- If you get enough grief, let them know that WA state outlawed affirmative action, and you feel that you are being picked on for racial reasons. Make a complaint about the person in HR, and then the entire complaint will have to go to another department.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:47:59 PM EDT
I still say he needs to see the EEO policy.


WAC 357-25-025
What are the policy statement requirements that employers must comply with for the purpose of chapter 357-25 WAC?

(1) All employers must maintain:

(a) An affirmative action and equal employment opportunity policy statement



Its the law.


Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:32:47 PM EDT
Well it's 4:30 and time for me to go home. No one has talked to me yet other than that nasty ass email that I got from the Diversity Bitch! It's possible that this whole thing might just blow over. If it doesn't it will get interesting because I am not the only one who wrote to HR expressing my displeasure with this Political Korrektness Policy! Tomorrow is another day. If it all goes to shit I'll keep y'all posted!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:50:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:00:41 PM EDT
We have a hindu fucktard engineer where I work. He is a universal fuckup, everything he specs is so wrong it damn near explodes when you start it. When his latest creation went to permit approval, the local government sent it back with a note to hire a P.E. to do the work next time, it was totally substandard. He was upset, he is a P.E., according to the minority standards for an engineer.

Here's the good part. He nominated himself for "Engineer of the Year". Why? He said, none of his peers were qualified to pass judgment on him, so he decided he should be the guy.



Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:56:49 PM EDT
Culture
Diversity
One of our company's core values is to have a workforce that is a diverse and involved team. We value the skills, strengths and perspectives of our diverse team. We strive to foster a participatory workplace that enables people to get involved in making decisions about their work that advance our common business objectives. That's more than mere corporate-speak. We know that diversity gives us a competitive advantage. Boeing is a company with nearly 200,000 people, operations in 26 states, and customers in more than 145 countries. Still, we must do more than assume that diversity will simply come to us because of our size and global reach. To the contrary, Boeing spends a great deal of time, money and effort to become more diverse at all levels of our organization. We want to get the most from our diversity. We want people to think and act differently -- with greater speed, agility, and creativity. Those attributes are required in an increasingly complex and demanding global business environment. So when we say there is truly strength in diversity, we mean it.

One example of many in the area of diversity is our commitment to the employment of qualified people with disabilities. For some people, in some circumstances, a physical or mental barrier due to a disability may impact a person's ability to perform the job functions in the usual fashion. Boeing reviews such situations individually and coordinates accommodation arrangements and education programs that work to eliminate barriers and best access people's skills and abilities in the Boeing workforce.

We must understand that our view of the world is but one of many . . . that others see things in other ways. Diversity is about us -- each and every one of us. The point is not that there are differences. The point is whether we can learn from those differences. The point is not that there are varying viewpoints, but whether we can recognize and respond to those varying viewpoints.

The true test of diversity within an organization . . . or across a whole society . . . is whether people build upon their differences ... or whether they are divided by them. Part of the greatness of our country is contained in the motto stamped on our coinage, -- "E Pluribus Unum" -- out of many, one.

Boeing Diversity Policy: It is the policy of The Boeing Company to attract and retain the best qualified people available without regard to race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, or status as a disabled or Vietnam Era Veteran.

This non-discrimination policy applies to applicants as well as employees, and covers all terms and conditions of employment, including recruiting, hiring, transfers, promotions, terminations, compensation and benefits. Discrimination or harassment based on any of the above factors is prohibited, as is retaliation against a person who has made a complaint or given information regarding possible violations of this policy.

Boeing is an equal opportunity employer. Applicant Privacy
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:01:55 PM EDT
HR witch has already broken the last line of the policy.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:14:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 8:38:20 PM EDT by RedDawg6]
Man, I'm just a Boeing peon who is "Soaring on the wings in an atmosphere of respect"!!!

Here is the email that was sent to me this morning in response to my comments about their stupid ass diversity program. I redacated the name and phone number of the Boeing HR moron who sent me this so this thing won't come back and bite me in the ass later for posting another Boeing employee's name on the web. It helps to keep it compartmentalized somewhat.

Jeff,
Your response is offensive, unprofessional, and inappropriate for the
workplace; specifically your use of racially derogatory terms is
unacceptable. (I guess she's uptight about a white guy calling himself a cracker!)

While Boeing supports open and honest communication and we're interested
in hearing the opinions and feedback from our employees, it must be done
so in a respectful and professional manner. (As long as it doesn't disagree with the opinions of the bleeding heart liberals on the left!)

I'm sure that you took the time to review the website, the affiliations,
and awards before you wrote your response. Therefore, you have seen
that there are several hundred affiliations that Boeing participates in
that are non-diversity related. In addition, the email announcement
contained one of our biggest affiliations, AIAA, that has award
opportunities available for ALL Boeing employees. Further review of the
websites provided in the announcement, show that even some of the
diversity related affiliations have awards that are open to anyone
regardless of race or ethnic background. (Excuse me lady, that is all BS because there was no mention of that in the original offensive email that you sent to all Boeing employees asking for nominations for the best African American Engineer of the Year award!)

The purpose of the External Technical Affiliation Awards program is to
recognize the technical talent and achievement of ALL Boeing employees.
Since the Boeing company has such a rich and diverse population, as you
noted below, we are providing award opportunities for all different
backgrounds, cultures, and experiences. (How come there wasn't a catagory for white people?)

Our ETA Awards program also
recognizes and supports Boeing's Global Diversity and Employee Rights
mission that applies to ALL Boeing employees: "To value and leverage
multiple perspectives, experiences, and capabilities by driving the
integration of diversity, equity, and fairness principles into all
practices and processes to achieve enterprise objectives."
http://globaldiversity.whq.boeing.com/index.html

I hope that this response addresses your concerns, and I would strongly
encourage you to take the time and review the information provided in
the announcement below, if you haven't done so already. Any additional
questions or concerns that you may have, I would be more than happy to
address; provided that they are presented in a respectful and
professional manner. (Gee.....can't we all just get along?)


AXXXX AXXXX
HR Generalist for BCA Engineering Flight Controls and Mech/Hyd
http://bcaengpeople.web.boeing.com
Phone: 425-XXX-XXXX / Mobile: 425-XXX-XXXX
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:48:25 PM EDT
If you hadn't mentioned "crap" or "crackers", you could have disarmed them somewhat and they could not have said the sections I made red. If you delete them, you are left with what looks like a form letter that they keep handy for just such emails.

I addded a few more comments FWIW



Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
Jeff,
Your response is offensive, unprofessional, and inappropriate for the
workplace; specifically your use of racially derogatory terms is
unacceptable.


While Boeing supports open and honest communication and we're interested
in hearing the opinions and feedback from our employees, it must be done
so in a respectful and professional manner.


I'm sure that you took the time totranslation: I know you didn't review the website, the affiliations,
and awards before you wrote your response. Therefore, you have seen
that there are several hundred affiliations that Boeing participates in
that are non-diversity translation: non-discriminatory related. In addition, the email announcement
contained one of our biggest affiliations, AIAA, that has award
opportunities available for ALL Boeing employees. Further review of the
websites provided in the announcement, show that even some of the
diversity related affiliations have awards that are open to anyone
regardless of race or ethnic background.

The purpose of the External Technical Affiliation Awards program is to
recognize the technical talent and achievement of ALL Boeing employees.
Since the Boeing company has such a rich and diverse population, as you
noted below
this is a personal touch they added ..ah! the power of the old "quote" feature , we are providing award opportunities for all different
backgrounds, cultures, and experiences.

Our ETA Awards program also
recognizes and supports Boeing's Global Diversity and Employee Rights
mission that applies to ALL Boeing employees: "To value and leverage
multiple perspectives, experiences, and capabilities by driving (a wedge between) the
integration of diversity, equity, and fairness principles into all
practices and processes to achieve enterprise objectives."
http://globaldiversity.whq.boeing.com/index.html

I hope that this response addresses your concerns, and I would strongly
encourage you to take the time and review the information provided in
the announcement below, if you haven't done so already. Any additional
questions or concerns that you may have, I would be more than happy to
address; provided that they are presented in a respectful and
professional manner.
[






Overall, It is a pretty good HR response for a losing argument, but your point is still valid. As long as you dissent, they can never say it doesn't cause dissention.

It does look like it is an outside agency presenting the award--not Boeing. That gives Boeing a little more cover.

Did they do anything else besides this email?, because this is a pretty tame response.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:58:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:37:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:

Overall, It is a pretty good HR response for a losing argument, but your point is still valid. As long as you dissent, they can never say it doesn't cause dissention.

It does look like it is an outside agency presenting the award--not Boeing. That gives Boeing a little more cover.

Did they do anything else besides this email?, because this is a pretty tame response.



So far the only thing that happened today was the nasty gram in my email inbox! I'm inclined to just let it ride and not say anything further unless they push the issue. They are fighting a losing battle because I am most definately not the only person at Boeing who spoke up against their stupid policy. If they go after me then they will also have to go after everyone else who spoke up. I don't think they are stupid enough to do that.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:11:52 AM EDT

Therefore, you have seen
that there are several hundred affiliations that Boeing participates in
that are non-diversity related.



Read discriminates against White people.



When will the libtards understand discrimination is discrimination and exclusionary is exclusionary???




Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:00:56 PM EDT
....well my supervisor came up to me today and asked if we could chat for a minute. Actually before that happened I passed him in the hallway and he had kind of a funny look on his face and said "we needed to have a discusion!" Actually it went pretty well, it was very low key. I basically explained to him that I was offended by all this diversity crap that I'me being force fed. He replied by saying it's not just Boeing, it's happening in every company in the US of A. I state that I was aware of that and that there is a certain segment of our society that doesn't like it and won't Kow Tow to it and as a patriotic American I would make a lousey slave! He basically parroted the party line because that's what supervisors have to do but he also said next time I get pissed of to come see him first before I send out any more emails to anyone! It was just a casual conversation between me and him and HR wasn't involved. He just wants the whole thing to blow over. It's sort of like stepping in a pile of dog shit and hoping that it won't stink too bad! All's well that ends well!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:25:29 PM EDT
......The saga still continues. After I wrote my previous thread above I took a quick restroom break.
When I came back there was a message on my phone from some Boeing Diversity mucky muck who wants to do an EEO investigation. I guess the guy is just trying to justify his existence with the company. I will probably need a SPEEA rep for this encounter. I thought the whole thing was going to blow away and die down after my supervisor talked to me. I guess there is someone higer up on the food chain who wants some blood! I'll let you guys know if I'm still employed tomorrow!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:50:09 PM EDT
You need to document everything and then file your own EEO.
Fight back, use their rules and do it hard!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:34:39 PM EDT
A line to remember

"HR is proposing to discriminate based on Race, which is illegal according to federal and state law, and I am objecting to said discrimination, and I'm the bad guy!?!?"
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:10:50 PM EDT

RedDawg6,
We have very similar programs at our company that are directed towards minority groups. While I don't find it offensive, I do find these types of programs often driving a wedge between the races. I personally don't see color when I look at people but I feel somewhat left out when companies go out of their way to promote minority groups, or have special programs, which are not for all people.
I feel if we ever want to eliminate discrimination and gain respect of the employee's, we should promote and recognize people on their achievements and values they bring to a company, and not how they appear in their ID badge.

At the company I work for, they would have you attend a diversity class or a somewhat similar program, if they are serious. Most employees won't get fired for an email of your sort, but in the eyes of the corporate world, it's frowned on as disrespectful and very unprofessional. They will use your EEO investigation to conclude weather they feel you are a threat to the company, the workforce, or prejudice between races. I wouldn't go in there with an attitude or you could end up with some time off without pay, going through a huge legal battle to keep your job, or even worse, if the company has a '0" tolerance for what they explain as disrespectful / unprofessional type of email, you could lose your job.

Lots of people in big companies feel exactly how you do, but professionally speaking, the executives and the shareholders don't promote it and absolutely won't speak open about it.

Good Luck and hope all turn out well.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:23:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Oh I am soooo tagging this thread..




+1

I should say though be sensitive to the African American [CavVat do you really consider yourself African American?] engineers - I'm sure they would rather be singled out by their work then their color.

Patty
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:24:30 PM EDT
I stopped by the SPEEA office on my way home this evening and talked to one of the top SPEEA Union Reps. He gave me some good info (negotiation tactics) on how to approach this upcoming meeting. One of the good things that I have going for me is that I'm not angry about this fiasco. I see these people as stupid (misguided!) libtards but I'm not angry. With that in mind hopefully it will prevent me from loosing my cool when I go toe to toe with these jack-offs. Tomorrow will be an interesting day.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:28:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 50BMGshooter:
At the company I work for, they would have you attend a diversity class or a somewhat similar program, if they are serious. Most employees won't get fired for an email of your sort, but in the eyes of the corporate world, it's frowned on as disrespectful and very unprofessional. They will use your EEO investigation to conclude weather they feel you are a threat to the company, the workforce, or prejudice between races. I wouldn't go in there with an attitude or you could end up with some time off without pay, going through a huge legal battle to keep your job, or even worse, if the company has a '0" tolerance for what they explain as disrespectful / unprofessional type of email, you could lose your job.
Good Luck and hope all turn out well.



If they even try that it will backfire on them very badly. My daughter in law is African American. They're gonn'a have a real difficult time playing the race card on me!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:49:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 5:52:45 PM EDT by GrumpyM4]
Don't forget to let them know that you feel that the EEO envestigation regarding your little love note is "retaliation" for having written said note when you file your own EEO complaint.

In using the term "retaliation", you shut the door on them for fireing you because "retaliation" is illegal. And do this post haste if you wanna keep your job. Right or not, if you invoke the ire of the pc machine, you're in for a ride whether you like it or not.

Don't forget that the PC nazi is paid to do nothing but find troublemakers like yourself and make your life miserable until they find a reason to fire you. You on the other hand, must work a full day, take care of your family afterwards, and find time inbetween to defend yoruself. CYA buddy.

Once you let the cat out of the bag, you had better let it all the way out, or they own you. Remember, the system is set up to defend itself, and unless you know the ins and outs, it WILL crush you. You may think that you have all the "right" ammo in the world, and that you havn't done anything "technically" wrong, but that dosn't matter to a pc orginisation that can't see its own hypocrisy.

Good luck.

Chris
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:03:34 PM EDT
DISCLAIMER-I do not have first hand experience in this stuff, just so you know.



first para is somewhat (but not totally) tongue in cheek, but para 2 and 3 are legit ideas:

1.When they start asking about your actions, say "Wait, I thought you wanted to talk to me as a witness in an EEO investigation against the award sponsor/HR person/whatever---are you telling me that "I" am the target of the investigation?!?!?!" <insert Lord_G_B quote here>


2.Stay professional, keep your manager informed if you are missing work to do interviews (or maybe it is up to them to clear the time with your mgr). Don't give them a peripheral reason to go after you...like cursing or threats.


3.(THIS IS THE BEST PART) Somewhere in your meeting, let out a sigh of exasperation...like you are giving up...and say, look, "I may have flown off the handle a bit in my email, but what it really comes down to is that I want this company, and everybody else for the matter,to stop discriminating against black people by marginalizing them like this by tainting their accomplishments by treating them differently solely because of their race."


4. Don't play the daughter in law card too early


5. Keep in mind that they have done this many times before. They have the eloquent language and convincing logic already worked out.

6. others posted good advice about knowing and using their own policies


I dont think the EEO people are out to fire you unless you violate their policies (which is hard to do unless you have some authority i.e. as a supv or mgr). I do think that they get credit for handling a case, just like a mechanic gets credit for working off a maintenance write-up. "Handling it" may be no more than saying "we consulted with the client, explained our position, educated him on policies and ascertained that he is not a threat, and no policy was violated by him or Boeing. "

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:14:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CarbineMonoxide:

I dont think the EEO people are out to fire you unless you violate their policies (which is hard to do unless you have some authority i.e. as a supv or mgr). I do think that they get credit for handling a case, just like a mechanic gets credit for working off a maintenance write-up. "Handling it" may be no more than saying "we consulted with the client, explained our position, educated him on policies and ascertained that he is not a threat, and no policy was violated by him or Boeing. "



.....they might try to send me to re-education camp!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 10:00:51 PM EDT
Interesting thread and the subject always makes me thinking about all this discrimination issue and if it is not "fabricated" by some groups.

The majority of the population in Atlanta is "african-american" (BTW: why everybody is not "American", instead of Italian-American, Polish-American, Irish-American, etc.?) some groups still insist that they are minority and should be treated as so. Well... last time I saw, >50% is not minority.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 5:33:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 5:42:20 AM EDT by CavVet]

Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
Actually it went pretty well, it was very low key. I basically explained to him that I was offended by all this diversity crap that I'me being force fed. He replied by saying it's not just Boeing, it's happening in every company in the US of A. I state that I was aware of that and that there is a certain segment of our society that doesn't like it and won't Kow Tow to it and as a patriotic American I would make a lousey slave!



I said it before, I will say it again, you dont want to be labeled an Angry White Male. Your initial email and these follow up statements scream this position. There are some things you should say and some things you shouldnt. Your initial statements got you in this mess, and your gut reactions statements are only going to hurt you worse. Concentrate on the violation of the policy and discrimination this program causes, period. See Carbine Monoxides post.


Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
If they even try that it will backfire on them very badly. My daughter in law is African American. They're gonn'a have a real difficult time playing the race card on me!



That actually means little. Hell Archie Bunkers daughter married Michael Stivich.




Originally Posted By pattymcn:

CavVat do you really consider yourself African American?





Potty do you really consider yourself a woman?




Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
One of the good things that I have going for me is that I'm not angry about this fiasco. I see these people as stupid (misguided!) libtards but I'm not angry. With that in mind hopefully it will prevent me from loosing my cool when I go toe to toe with these jack-offs. Tomorrow will be an interesting day.




Whether you are or not, you damn sure come across as such. You really need to neuter your replies, and if you cant you may be best served by being quiet and letting your BA (usually a bad idea) handle this. Thus far angry is the only thing you have managed to come across as.





Link Posted: 1/5/2006 5:56:16 AM EDT
I work in a Fed Gov shipyard... Gald we dont have crap like this where we are... although there are a few gals who holler EEO a lot and are given a wide berth.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:06:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:33:41 PM EDT by RedDawg6]
Well I had my meeting this morning. The good thing is that I had a union rep in the room with me.
The guy I was dealing with was an EEO investigator. In some respects it wasn't a painfull encounter because it didn't turn into a screaming match or a pissing contest. I was actually very relaxed in the meeting and basically stated and clarified my position. I also informed the investigator that I had other friends and fellow employees who support and agree with my position. He then said "who did you send the email to and how many people did you send it to?" I told him "I don't recall"! I did inform him that I did share my comments and the HR response to my comments to other friends who happened to be minorites and they we also in agreement and supportive of my views.

Evidently the HR person who is all bent out of shape over this is hyper-sensitive and was offended by me saying that her email was "a load of crap" and the fact that I stated that caucasions were omitted from the process and I stated something to the effect that "us crackers" apparently havent done anything noteworthy to be allowed to participate in the process. The problem with HR is the fact that I referred to myself as a "cracker" so I got in trouble for offending myself! Also they didn't like my phrase "this is a load of crap!" for some reason they found those words to be too strong for the ocassion. I stated that perhaps it was strong but I wouldn't necesarrily consider it offensive. If anything I considered the original email promoting the diversity plan to be offensive and racist in respect that it doesn't include people of all races and ethnic groups. In other words my views don't count!

At the same time we were having this conversation I was very relaxed and almost laid back. I think that pissed him off because I wasn't afraid of him. After we were done with the interview the investigator wrote up a statement that he wanted me to sign. I did not sign the statement. I did revise some of the stuff he wrote. He stated that I felt that white people should be included in the award process. I crossed that out and wrote in place of his statement that "one's race or ethniticity should not be a factor in determining the award for engineer of the year and the only thing it should be based on is the individual's abilites and contributions." I also stated that perhaps in hindsight I should not have used the term "cracker" and I honestly did not think anyone would be offended by the context in which I used it. The EEO investigator stated that he would send his report to HR and they will decide what type of disciplinary action will take place. I will probably find out tomorrow what they plan to do at this point.

After I returned to my desk I got a phone call from a friend of mine who works in a different building in the Everett plant. When this whole fiasco started I sent him a copy of the email response that I got from the HR person. He got pissed off and replied to this person that he agreed with my comments and he felt that my comments were right on target. The HR person that is at the root of this problem then replied to his email stating that she was offended by his remarks although he didn't use the same language that I did she still felt he was offensive because he supported my position which she was also offended by! Evidently it doesn't take very much to offend this person! Unbeknownst to me he was hauled in to the EEO investigator's office and reamed out yesterday for supporting my position on this issue. The irony of it was the fact that he had a meeting with the very same EEO investigator that I spoke to this morning.

It was then that I understood the nervousness that this guy felt when he wanted to know how many people I sent the email too. I didn't know that he had already spoken to my friend the day before. I will probaly find out tomorrow what kind of judgement they are going to pass on to me. I don't think it will be too harsh because I really don't think this thing is that big of a deal. I could be wrong and they might decide to make an example of me. I'll keep you posted as the saga continues........
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:44:50 PM EDT
Sounds like they are nervous. I'm glad to see you stand up for your beliefs. If they punish you, you might want to talk to a lawyer. I agree that giving somebody an award based on their ethnic group marginalizes their contribution to the company. Popularity contests are for high school, not the workforce.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:50:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
The problem with HR is the fact that I referred to myself as a "cracker" so I got in trouble for offending myself!







He stated that I felt that white people should be included in the award process. I crossed that out and wrote in place of his statement that "one's race or ethniticity should not be a factor in determining the award for engineer of the year and the only thing it should be based on is the individual's abilites and contributions."






Good Job!

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:10:49 PM EDT
Wonder if the Company is worried about a class action suit again them for discrimination. There is you and your friend that have both complained to HR about the award process; one more and I think it could become a class action suit against on grounds of racism.

Now just throwing this out as a thought next time you get an email for Best ethnic group award person nomination. The response would go something like this, make it a bit more political correct (yeah I know that is what started this mess):
To Whom It May Concern: The email I have just received requesting a nomination for the Best Ethnic Group Award (whatever it is called) I find offensive for the following reasons: 1) The company that employees me states clearly in the HR Manual page #, paragraph # that discrimination based on ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, age, etc is against company policy. This request is in violation of the policy as it asks me to violate company policy. 2) Washington State RCW book chapter makes it a hate crime for me to discriminate based on ethnicity etc. I feel this request is asking me to commit a felony crime in my state of residence. 3) State law RCW book, verse does not allow discrimination based on ethnicity etc. Again this request asks me to violate state law. 4) Federal book line and verse makes discrimination illegal. I am an upstanding citizen of the United States which feels this request violates federal law.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:13:16 PM EDT
As a New Jerseyan-American descended from white European males who smoked, I must say, that of all the ethnic/racial slurs in the world, I would have to say "cracker " is the tamest, lamest one there is. You just can't use that word in a sentence and make it sound mean..."I'm gonna cut you, you cracker!!"??--"Your mother wears Army boots-you stupid cracker!!"

it just doesn't work....


Next time you want to say "load of crap" at work, just say "pile of Airbus" instead. You get the same point across, and you only offend the French, and there certainly ain't no law against that, cracker!!

IF you get in trouble here, it seems it would be for a conduct violation against the EEO guy, not for EEO/diversity violation against anyone.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:18:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 9:18:53 PM EDT by RedDawg6]
Thanks for all the kind words and moral support. Now I think for a bet time snack I'll have a CRACKER!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:36:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 9:59:56 PM EDT by YOPD]

Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
Thanks for all the kind words and moral support. Now I think for a bet time snack I'll have a CRACKER!hr


I used to drive a big rig for a living. Whenever I went to the south, and said something that some black person that may have heard me didn't like, usually over the CB radio, they usually called me a "cracker", "Shut up, cracker!" or "F U, cracker!". I just did not know what this meant. I looked it up. Basically, it means "the person that cracked the whip to keep the slaves working hard at their task". Hmmm.

From that time forward, whenever someone has called me a cracker, I thank them for noticing my contribution to the workforce.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:47:21 PM EDT
Thanks for the history lesson. Now i wonder where the word "Honkey" came from!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:02:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RedDawg6:
Thanks for the history lesson. Now i wonder where the word "Honkey" came from!



I hope you aren't dissapointed!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:52:19 AM EDT
Saw a report about the topic below on TV today. Some folks are still trying to make a big deal out of it even though the video has clear humorous intentions (they showed part of in in the TV). It's becoming evident that many people are making harrasing others a "profession". If you do not fit in a "perfect sheep model" you are out of line and the System is supporting this people by giving them tools to harass anyone they consider does not fit the "model". This will be the downfall of this country. Too sad.


Wish you the best of luck RedDawg6.



All officers reinstated in video scandal
S.F. police chief lifts suspensions -- disciplinary action still possible
- Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writer
Friday, December 16, 2005

All 24 San Francisco police officers suspended for their roles in a video production that city leaders called highly offensive have been reinstated, including the officer who produced the skits, officials said Thursday.

Although the officers have returned to work, they still could face disciplinary action for the video scandal, said police Chief Heather Fong.

"It will be premature to speculate on what will happen," Fong said. "There is an active, administrative investigation that continues in spite of the officers being returned to duty."

Fong, who along with Mayor Gavin Newsom announced the suspensions at a news conference Dec. 7, said the videos represented "egregious, shameful and despicable acts" by her officers.

"This is a dark day -- an extremely dark day -- in the history of the San Francisco Police Department," Fong said at the time.

On Thursday, Fong, appearing much more subdued, held a news conference to say the suspensions had been lifted but that the investigation continues. Newsom did not attend the news conference and could not be reached for comment.

"This is a serious matter that came to the department's attention,'' she said of the case.

Officer Andrew Cohen said he created the videos as a send-off for former Bayview Capt. Rick Bruce and had hoped to show them at the station's Christmas party. But when the station's captain, Al Pardini, said the videos were not suitable for the party, Cohen posted some of them on his own Web site.

Newsom and Fong denounced the video as racist, sexist and homophobic and showed them to the media during their news conference last week.

Among the skits on the video was an Asian American police officer supposedly having trouble riding his department-issued bicycle and a police officer who appears to run over a homeless woman. Authorities say among the images not made public include an African American officer wearing a dog collar and eating out of a dog bowl.

Bruce, who has been on leave since August and is expected to retire in March, was shown in one of the segments based on footage shot while he was a commander. He was not among the officers suspended.

Cohen and his attorneys say the police chief and the mayor have overreacted.

Of the 24 officers who have been reinstated, 16 were cleared to return to work Thursday and eight were cleared for work Tuesday.

Of the 16 officers who were cleared to work Thursday, eight will report to "field duties," said Fong, who declined to elaborate on the nature or location of those assignments. The other eight -- including videographer Cohen -- were assigned to positions where they won't have contact with the public, the officers' attorneys said.

In an interview Thursday, Cohen, 39, of Berkeley said he will soon report to the records room at the Hall of Justice. Cohen said he hoped to "take what has happened and make something good of it."

"To the degree that my video work did the opposite, I apologize," said Cohen, a 10-year veteran. "However, going forward I am dedicating my career to improving the relationships between the police officers and the community."

Cohen said his records-room assignment "can be construed as punitive, I think, but it's not that big a deal. It's just hard if you want to get back out there and help. The Bayview community needs us back there."

Harry Stern, a Pleasant Hill attorney representing Cohen, said, "This doesn't mean he's through the woods yet. It's certainly the first step, and he's very happy about that."

Cohen's fiancee, Officer Wendy Hurley, one of three female officers shown on a video licking their lips suggestively in a "Charlie's Angels" parody, was among the reinstated officers. The two other officers in that skit declined comment Thursday as they rode up an elevator at the Hall of Justice.

Also back to work was Officer Bryan Lujan, a nine-year veteran who appeared in a skit in which, according to city leaders, he treated a woman, whom he had supposedly stopped for a traffic violation, as a sex object. Cohen said the video was meant to poke fun at Lujan for his reputation for narcissism.

"We're pleased that the officers are going back to work. The department needs everybody available that we have," said Kevin Martin, vice president of the San Francisco Police Officers Association.

"We're just waiting to see what charges, if any, are going to be leveled at the individual officers," Martin said.

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URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/16/SFCOPS.TMP

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:36:45 AM EDT
I have for a long time held the belief that the sole purpose of the HR department in any given company in "Korporate Amerika" is to enforce control at any cost regardless if it affects productivity. Those HR goons aren't much different than the "Political Enforcement officers" on the Russian submarines as shown in the movie "The Hunt for Red October." The Nazis also had "Political Officers" on board the German subs in WWII. So each submarine had it's own HR department, isn't that neat! That's where this HR crap all started and it's gone down hill since then.
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