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Posted: 12/20/2005 10:42:59 AM EDT
http://www.svrifle.com/

I've been a member for some years and am still blown away by how cool this range is. VERY friendly to newbies, many cool activities and classes.

Took my daughter (who shot in their Juniors program a couple years ago) to watch me shoot in a highpower match last weekend and before I knew it, they had her signed up to participate. Turns out the HBAR was too heavy for her but I'm going to have to practice with her with my lighter rifle, so she can participate next time.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 10:56:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 10:56:42 AM EDT by XD_Fan]
You do understand they support Friends of the Trail? This is an organization that is vehemently ant-gun and anti-shooting. Fott was instrumental in getting the Sultan basin closed to shooting. Even though the areas being used for shooting have no trails close to them or running through them. SVR is very promenient about their support of NRA, SAR, etc. but does not mention the above fact on their website. They have a nice faciltiy but I find their politics a bit disingenuous.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 10:57:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 11:14:03 AM EDT by R-32]
Forget them, They took away my shooting area. I will not have any respect for theirs...

They support the enemy.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:11:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
Forget them...

They support the enemy.



So does the NRA the enemy within the gate is far more dangerous than the enemy without the gate.

<­BR>


"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."

Marcus Tullius Cicero quotes

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By R-32:
Forget them...

They support the enemy.



So does the NRA the enemy within the gate is far more dangerous than the enemy without the gate.



See this months issue of American Rifleman?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:21:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By R-32:
Forget them...

They support the enemy.



So does the NRA the enemy within the gate is far more dangerous than the enemy without the gate.



See this months issue of American Rifleman?



If the enemy propaganda is available free I will analyze but I do not support the enemy.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:23:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

Originally Posted By R-32:
Forget them...

They support the enemy.



So does the NRA the enemy within the gate is far more dangerous than the enemy without the gate.



See this months issue of American Rifleman?



If the enemy propaganda is available free I will analyze but I do not support the enemy.



OK I will stop by in a little while...
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:53:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
Fott was instrumental in getting the Sultan basin closed to shooting. Even though the areas being used for shooting have no trails close to them or running through them. SVR is very promenient about their support of NRA, SAR, etc. but does not mention the above fact on their website. They have a nice faciltiy but I find their politics a bit disingenuous.



I'll ask about that.

I am curious though...were shooters just shooting up appliances, cars and leaving them...not hauling them out?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:57:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By donbcivil:

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
Fott was instrumental in getting the Sultan basin closed to shooting. Even though the areas being used for shooting have no trails close to them or running through them. SVR is very promenient about their support of NRA, SAR, etc. but does not mention the above fact on their website. They have a nice faciltiy but I find their politics a bit disingenuous.



I'll ask about that.

I am curious though...were shooters just shooting up appliances, cars and leaving them...not hauling them out?



I don't think closing land to shooters eliminates any litterbugs or illegal dumpers. I could see where an organization that makes money by accomodating shooters might want to eliminate free competition though.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:12:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By donbcivil:

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
Fott was instrumental in getting the Sultan basin closed to shooting. Even though the areas being used for shooting have no trails close to them or running through them. SVR is very promenient about their support of NRA, SAR, etc. but does not mention the above fact on their website. They have a nice faciltiy but I find their politics a bit disingenuous.



I'll ask about that.

I am curious though...were shooters just shooting up appliances, cars and leaving them...not hauling them out?



I don't think closing land to shooters eliminates any litterbugs or illegal dumpers. I could see where an organization that makes money by accomodating shooters might want to eliminate free competition though.



+1

Last time I went up to Lake Spada the shooting areas are bigger dumps than ever before. How many shooters shoot old mattresses?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:21:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 12:27:06 PM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By donbcivil:

I'll ask about that.

I am curious though...were shooters just shooting up appliances, cars and leaving them...not hauling them out?



donbcivil, We had several clean up's in that area over the years. It is a place where illegal dumping has been going on for years. I have paid out of my own pocket to dump several truck loads over the years.. FOTT came in and took a bunch of pictures, brought T.V. crews in then posted their posters that said the area was off limits to shooting. (without any legal back up as a scare tactic). They did get with the Snohomish County Govt and along with their members that also work with the DNR got the area closed to shooting...

Now it is a even bigger trash dump, and where did FOTT go?...I guess it dont need to be cleaned up now.....all the shooter's are gone

What they did do was push the shooters out to the Cedar ponds area, and up further into the Reiter pit area, and now you have shooters mixx'd in with Motorcycle tracks, and 4X4's. I have had the Sheriff called on me twice now by Motorcycle's and 4X4'guys that are upset that I am shooting in a area that my company dug out for the rock to build a road. When the Deputy show's up I get a smile because Im legal. FOTT is now very active in doing what they can to get the cedar ponds area closed down even though it is very legal on the Snohomish county side to shoot. To the point that the Game agent in the area is telling people that it is ALL SHUT DOWN TO SHOOTING. The King Co side is posted NO SHOOTING, but the SNO Co side is very much OK...(As long as you dont get cought).

FOTT is a rabid ANTI group and they lie to your face and try to start fights. I have no place for them, or any shooting group that supports them.

(and that is to bad, cause I like to shoot highpower, and svrc would be a neat place to do so)
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:22:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By donbcivil:

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
Fott was instrumental in getting the Sultan basin closed to shooting. Even though the areas being used for shooting have no trails close to them or running through them. SVR is very promenient about their support of NRA, SAR, etc. but does not mention the above fact on their website. They have a nice faciltiy but I find their politics a bit disingenuous.



I'll ask about that.

I am curious though...were shooters just shooting up appliances, cars and leaving them...not hauling them out?

I have never seen a shooter dump a car or a appliance out in the woods/Dumpers
and shooters are not the same. SVR is a nice facility but untill there policy changes they will not have
Me as a member.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:30:58 PM EDT


They support the enemy.

So does the NRA the enemy within the gate is far more dangerous than the enemy without the gate.



OK, the SVRC thing I intend to look into and ask about.

But how the heck is the NRA supporting the enemy?

We wouldn't HAVE RKBA left if the NRA hadn't been fighting, all these years. Not that that makes an impression on the "I don't want my name on any list" crowd...


"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."

Marcus Tullius Cicero quotes

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:37:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 12:40:46 PM EDT by BIGDUKESIX]

Originally Posted By donbcivil:

They support the enemy.

So does the NRA the enemy within the gate is far more dangerous than the enemy without the gate.



OK, the SVRC thing I intend to look into and ask about.

But how the heck is the NRA supporting the enemy?

We wouldn't HAVE RKBA left if the NRA hadn't been fighting, all these years. Not that that makes an impression on the "I don't want my name on any list" crowd...


I would like to hear the answer to this too

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:41:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BIGDUKESIX:

I would like to hear the answer to this too





I would be happy to see their name removed from the list, and them say they will not send another penny.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:51:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By donbcivil:
I've been a member for some years and am still blown away by how cool this range is. VERY friendly to newbies, many cool activities and classes.

Donb...
Yep. Its a great place to be a member! The people are cool, and its always a pleasure to meet others, shoot and enjoy the company. My son has also taken the juniors program. Not withstanding a few "wet blankets" who like to trash the range on this board its a pleasure being a member!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:55:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By donbcivil:
We wouldn't HAVE RKBA left if the NRA hadn't been fighting, all these years. Not that that makes an impression on the "I don't want my name on any list" crowd...



The reason the second amendment does not exist is because of the No Rifle Association.

Every anti-gun law, anti-second amendment law ever passed into law has been because of the NRA.

The 1934 NFA nra caused it.
1968 GCA nra supported it.
1986 and so on and so forth.

In order to idenitfy an enemy you watch what they do and not what they say, you know what kind of plant it is by the fruit it produces.

Rights are not granted by government, laws like the second amendment are there to limit government not citizens.

I won't be happy until Wayne LaPierre and his conspirators are executed by firering squad.


* "Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
-- Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:00:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:

Not withstanding a few "wet blankets" who like to trash the range on this board its a pleasure being a member!







I did not see anyone here trash the range, I did see a couple bring up the fact that the range support's a Anti group, backed up with some info...don did not come in and cry foul, he said he would ask about it. No one here blasted him, no one is blasting you...

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:13:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 2:14:07 PM EDT by XD_Fan]
+1

This exact thread has come up at least three times in the two years I've been here. The exact same things are said and never has anyone bashed SVR or the people who've asked about SVR. Where do you see that anyone has bashed SVR or been uncivil to dondcivil or even yourself? If it pains you to see us hold up SVR's politics to the light of day then ask them why they are supporting FOTT. Ask them how they jusitfy supporting a group that is active in suppressing public use of public land for shooting? Ask them why they support a group who's leader is on public record as being anti-gun, anti-shooting and anti-2A?

From what I've been able to gather it looks as if the recent DNR move to "outlaw" shooting on DNR is another one of their moves. Sorry, that dog don't hunt. I've been up to SVR it is a nice facility. But I think they'd rather bribe the Danes than attempt to defeat them.

ETA: Next time your at a WAC show ask Joe Waldron why he's a member of WCW and not SVR.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:34:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
+1

You guys can wail all you want. Its obvious the two of you have a burr....
I enjoy my membership. I enjoy the fact that MANY of the members are veterans and the range was OPENED SPECIFICALLY FOR WW2 vets upon returning home to continue their firearms skills. You've got a hard-on about a group of tree hugging fruitcakes (FOTT)? Then take it up with them. I love the fact that SVRC is 10 minutes from my house, and I don't have to go out to someplace where idiots with the IQ of bath water leave TV sets, trash cans and furniture because they think its "fun" to shoot it and dump it. Whats so sad is that the WAHTF has events like LCR where everyone is ULTRA sensitive to cleaning everything so we can come back and enjoy! Too many of the casual weekend shooters have a trash and leave approach. I'm an ultra-conservative right wing Republican, but stupidity is stupidity....until a lot of the CASUAL gun crowd is educated about cleaning up after themselves, you will continue to see them on Pierce County Cops.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:46:15 PM EDT
I looked at joining SVR and was very impressed with the shooting possibilities there. I was on the verge of joining up but ended up not joining because of the FOTT thing.

I have never shot at the places that have been closed, or are threatened, but want to have the option in the future, and know many that do use them now. I'm tired of the steady erosion of our freedoms and choices. I don't need .gov or "do-gooder" organizations deciding what is or is not good for me.

I know they don't miss me or my money, but I don't want any part of my dues supporting the people that oppose us, like FOTT.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:21:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 6:52:17 PM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
You guys can wail all you want. Its obvious the two of you have a burr....



Yup, I dont shop REI also....Same reason, and that is a damn shame, I would buy more of my Rescue gear there.

Im glad that you are backing up your club, it looks like in the other thread, that it turns out that a couple of your members made the mistake to help FOTT and got taken advantage of....

So be it!...Do what you can as a club to get your name off the site, and think about your actions before you lend your name to any future actions.

BTW, donbcivil is a credit to the club, I would love to be a member of a club with guys like him. {removed because it just was not very nice}
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:34:37 PM EDT

The reason the second amendment does not exist is because of the No Rifle Association.

Every anti-gun law, anti-second amendment law ever passed into law has been because of the NRA.

The 1934 NFA nra caused it.
1968 GCA nra supported it.
1986 and so on and so forth.



Sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me. The NRA isn't perfect but I seriously doubt most of the concealed carry improvements we've seen since the 80s would have been enacted without their efforts. Alaska is showing the way of the next wave of improvements, with CPL not being necessary but issued for the sake of reciprocity with other states on request.

I've never heard anything about the NRA supporting NFA 34 or GCA 68. Can you point me at info about that?

I do disagree with the machine gun freeze in the 1986 law and hope that it is overturned. The GOPA was a massive improvement in other ways however, improving gun owners rights when travelling with firearms.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:53:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By donbcivil:

The GOPA was a massive improvement in other ways however, improving gun owners rights when travelling with firearms.



Mail order ammo....
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:59:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 7:00:46 PM EDT by Da_Bunny]
I'm another anti FOTT. They haven't done a thing about the Sultin Basin, except close it down to shooters. It's a bigger dump than it ever was.

It great that you guys in King County have a shooting club, but it's just too damn far away for me. Your club taketh away, but giveth nothing.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:25:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By donbcivil:
Sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me. The NRA isn't perfect but I seriously doubt most of the concealed carry improvements we've seen since the 80s would have been enacted without their efforts. Alaska is showing the way of the next wave of improvements, with CPL not being necessary but issued for the sake of reciprocity with other states on request.

I've never heard anything about the NRA supporting NFA 34 or GCA 68. Can you point me at info about that?

I do disagree with the machine gun freeze in the 1986 law and hope that it is overturned. The GOPA was a massive improvement in other ways however, improving gun owners rights when travelling with firearms.



It's the oldest political trick in the book, "take over the leadership" the general membership of the NRA are gunownwers like you and me, but the leadership belongs to the NWO and it's agenda, read "FREEDOM FROM WAR
THE UNITED STATES PROGRAM
FOR GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT
IN A PEACEFUL WORLD"

The NRA has worked consitantly to implement that document

all disarmament obligations must be subject to effective international controls:
State Department 7277

There are near endless list of essays exposing the NRA as the gun grabbing org. that it is, and the useful idiots continue blind support when they need to either retake control or abolish the NRA.

The worst offence by the NA was when a Texas gun group got very bad state legislation defeated and then were attacked by the NRA, the NRA said they had acted outside NRA authority and that it was and I quote "a good gun bill".

google around there is a ton of information on the treason of the NRA

The GOA almost hand Clinton a stunning defeat but the NRA got bad gun bill through anyway

Former NRA Director exposes gun control schemes

Larry Pratts response to NRA attack on GOA
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:28:25 AM EDT

It's the oldest political trick in the book, "take over the leadership" the general membership of the NRA are gunownwers like you and me, but the leadership belongs to the NWO and it's agenda, read "FREEDOM FROM WAR
THE UNITED STATES PROGRAM
FOR GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT
IN A PEACEFUL WORLD"
The NRA has worked consitantly to implement that document



If you were a member, you'd know that their magazines constantly highlight international threats to gun rights.


There are near endless list of essays exposing the NRA as the gun grabbing org. that it is, and the useful idiots continue blind support when they need to either retake control or abolish the NRA.


Yes and those essays were written by individuals with a personal axe to grind or by orgs promoting themselves as "no compromise gun lobby"...a recipe for politcal purity and doomed to failure. I understand the need for different gun orgs with different angles of attack but when they attack and try to undermine each other, it's just lame.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:14:09 AM EDT
Anybody who has seen the PPV debate between Rebecca Williams of the International Action Network on Small Arms (IANSA, an NGO driving the gun debate at the UN) and LaPierre has -got- to be shaking their heads on this one.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:40:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
You guys can wail all you want. Its obvious the two of you have a burr....

BTW, donbcivil is a credit to the club, I would love to be a member of a club with guys like him. {removed because it just was not very nice}




boo hoo.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:16:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:27:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:

Originally Posted By R-32:
Originally Posted By 1GunnerHogan1:
You guys can wail all you want. Its obvious the two of you have a burr....

BTW, donbcivil is a credit to the club, I would love to be a member of a club with guys like him. {removed because it just was not very nice}




boo hoo.



Cite where either of us bashed SVR. You seem to be doing all the huffing and puffing.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:54:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
Cite where either of us bashed SVR. You seem to be doing all the huffing and puffing.



XD:

(1) I never said that YOU had bashed the club directly. However I have explained in my posts that it looks to be VERY LIKELY that the FOTT have pulled a scam on the SVRC in saying we "back" their BS agenda by listing us as a "supporter" just because a couple of members were nice enough to help with a clean-up. I also have asked Jim Gordon the president to address this issue ASAP and have SVRC removed from FOTT unauthorized use of us as a supporter.

(2) Understandably several WA HTF members are pissed off at FOTT for their anti-gun and false comments about shooters. I hate the FOTT as much as anyone, along with the Sierra Club and all the other rabid left wing tree hugging nuts. However, I love the gun club I belong to, and it seems as if ONE MEMBER on here decided to rag on the false "guilt by association" of the SVRC without knowing ANYTHING about the club or its members or their beliefs. I can ASSURE you that nobody I know in the club likes Ron Sims, FOTT etc. When I called last night to the executive secretary and pointed out the FOTT website, she was HORRIFIED to see our name on the same page as Ron Sims, FOTT, Sierra Club etc.! Maybe this should have been explained earlier, but I thought MY POSTING OF WHAT I DISCOVERED WOULD HELP CLARIFY AND START TO END THE MISUNDERSTANDING!!!!!! somebody just seems to want to drag it out and take potshots from the cheap seats. Oh well, so be it. No loss. I hope this lets you know what the intention was. Sorry if there is a misunderstanding, and I hope Jim plans on posting here in the WA HTF about SVRC getting its name removed from FOTT and the clubs REAL POLICY!!! Have a good day.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:15:35 AM EDT

BTW, donbcivil is a credit to the club, I would love to be a member of a club with guys like him. {removed because it just was not very nice}

boo hoo.



Actually, I think they have it backwards. I'm not very nice. :)
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:41:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By donbcivil:

BTW, donbcivil is a credit to the club, I would love to be a member of a club with guys like him. {removed because it just was not very nice}

boo hoo.



Actually, I think they have it backwards. I'm not very nice. :)



donbcivil You have been more than mature in this topic. Lots of respect from here for you, loss of respect for another.


1Gh1, It is great that you come out acting like a pitbull, but you dont pay much attention. We see that you have called on your clubs leadership...That is great!, I along with a couple other guys have said that we would like to join up once the issue is resolved. If you want to make smart ass comments then so be it, You just discredit your cause further, and make it harder for your club to clean up it's name here....

BTW: Still waiting for you to produce anything from the last 3+ years that this topic has come up about where we slam the members/membership of your club about anything other than the FACT that they are posted on the Anti-Gunners board?....( you have been a member here for almost 11 month's, and have access to the Archives)
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:52:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 11:53:34 AM EDT by 1GunnerHogan1]

Originally Posted By R-32:

donbcivil You have been more than mature in this topic. Lots of respect from here for you, loss of respect for another. Vice-Versa as well.

1Gh1, It is great that you come out acting like a pitbull, but you dont pay much attention. We see that you have called on your clubs leadership...That is great!, I along with a couple other guys have said that we would like to join up once the issue is resolved. If you want to make smart ass comments then so be it, You just discredit your cause further, and make it harder for your club to clean up it's name here....Really? And your comment about me being in a wad after you PERSONALLY insulted me is helpful how? Nice.

BTW: Still waiting for you to produce anything from the last 3+ years that this topic has come up about where we slam the members/membership of your club about anything other than the FACT that they are posted on the Anti-Gunners board?....( you have been a member here for almost 11 month's, and have access to the Archives)



OTHER THAN THE FACT...to quote you directly above. Great. I tried to clarify 3 times for you now about SVRC but given that you are a friend of SNS, and a "defender" I'll let it go with that.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:15:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:19:46 PM EDT
ODT....
IM inbound. Out.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:24:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 12:27:42 PM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By OdT:

I see a sollution on the near horizon, and possibly more, if it's desired.




As do I, and Im sure several others, I also would like the thank donbcivil,clawista92, and even 1GunnerHogan1, for the work they are putting forward in promoting their club and clearing up the reputation it has had here....


BTW: How long has it been since ~$n$~ has been brought up around here...Gotta be some sorta record.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:34:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By R-32:

IM Sent to R-32
Hijack of this thread is done. We can discuss offline. Merry Christmas all.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:07:56 PM EDT
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