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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:34:26 AM EDT
Nothing like ignoring what seem to be the facts, especially when a "stellar performer" says something different. I guess lying to the responding officers is okay in his opinion. It looks like Gil may just be trying to get the boot. He's certainly making himself unpopular. I know the rank and file have little use for him. When I was discussing this with the wife she said how do you accidentally discharge a weapon unless your finger is on the trigger?

Police chief cuts penalty of officer in shooting

"Police chief cuts penalty for officer in firing of weapon

By Steve Miletich

Seattle Times staff reporter

A Seattle police officer who said she accidentally fired her gun on Capitol Hill during an off-duty confrontation with a panhandler has received a reduced penalty, even though the panhandler told investigators the officer twice yelled, "I'm going to kill you."

Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske agreed with the officer, Penelope Fulmer, that her discharge of her personal handgun during the March 17 incident was accidental. He had originally planned to suspend Fulmer for 30 days without pay but reduced that to 15 days after meeting with her.

Kerlikowske, already under scrutiny for reversing disciplinary recommendations, rejected the conclusion of a top commander in internal affairs, who believed that Fulmer deliberately fired her gun.

Kerlikowske was unavailable yesterday. Fulmer has not responded to requests for comment.

Fulmer, 35, flagged down officers during the early-morning incident but didn't tell them she was armed or had fired her gun, even when they asked if she was "packing," a slang term for carrying a gun.

Shortly after, the 14-year veteran asked a sergeant if there were surveillance cameras in the area, according to department memorandums obtained by The Seattle Times on Friday under a public-disclosure request.

After she got home, Fulmer contacted a police union representative and then reported to a lieutenant that she had accidentally fired her gun.

Fulmer told investigators she dropped her .38-caliber revolver and accidentally fired it once while picking it up as she chased the panhandler about 1:15 a.m. She said the panhandler had struck her companion, an off-duty Snohomish County sheriff's deputy, with a glass juice bottle while aggressively seeking money from them and making derogatory remarks about two women being together.

The panhandler, who was arrested, told police both women had lunged at him before he swung the bottle in self-defense. No charges were brought against him.

The department's captain of internal affairs, Neil Low, doubted Fulmer's account after reviewing the case.

"The preponderance of evidence tends to support that she shot at him and did not have an accidental discharge," Low wrote in an Oct. 25 memo.

"Fulmer not only cannot explain how such an accidental discharge would have taken place, in theory," Low wrote. "She accepts no responsibility for her actions."

When officers asked Fulmer that night if she was carrying a gun, Low wrote, the officer held up her hands and opened her jacket as though she were unarmed. "Her response and actions are clearly deceptive and destroy her credibility," he wrote.

One officer had heard a gunshot, Low wrote. But Fulmer still did not acknowledge she was armed even when an officer expressed concern that there might be a gunshot-wound victim or property damage in the area.

Although there were no witnesses, Low noted that the panhandler had offered a credible story, insisting Fulmer yelled "I'm going to kill you" before and after the shot was fired.

Fulmer acknowledged only that she called the panhandler a "coward," Low wrote. Overall, Low wrote, the panhandler's version of events was "more credible, and that is troubling."

Fulmer's actions caused the panhandler to "suffer an assault on the street, followed by his wrongful arrest and booking into jail," Low wrote.

Sam Pailca, the department's civilian director of internal investigations, said in a memo that the evidence was inconclusive about whether the shooting was accidental. But, Pailca wrote, the "evidence is persuasive that Fulmer lied to cover up the discharge of the weapon" and disclosed it only when it became clear investigators would learn of it anyway.

Deputy Chief Clark Kimerer called Low's and Pailca's observations "interpretations" subject to disagreement.

The deputy chief said Fulmer expressed deep contrition when she met with the chief to give her side. Her sergeant, who appeared with her, stated she had been a "stellar performer," Kimerer said.

Fulmer also stated she was emotionally distraught the night of the incident because her companion had been attacked, Kimerer said.

Chief's findings

Kerlikowske, who has final say on discipline, found that although Fulmer initially denied firing a shot or being armed, she ultimately reported firing her gun.

"Your acceptance of responsibility for your conduct and your excellent work record have been taken into consideration in arriving at this disciplinary decision," the chief wrote to Fulmer.

Kerlikowske found Fulmer guilty of engaging in conduct unbecoming an officer and violating department rules on reporting the discharge of firearms. He also found she had used a gun for which she had not received department training.

Kerlikowske originally told Fulmer he planned to suspend her for 30 days, the most severe discipline short of firing, but he changed the penalty to 15 days after meeting with her.

At least one commander recommended Fulmer be fired, according to a high-ranking official in the department, who spoke on condition of anonymity because disciplinary deliberations are confidential.

Prosecutors reviewed the case but determined there wasn't enough evidence to press criminal charges.

The case was then referred to the police department for internal review.

A civilian review board has taken notice of Kerlikowske's record of reversing or reducing disciplinary recommendations. The three-member board is reviewing reversed cases. A Seattle Times analysis found Kerlikowske had reversed about one of every four findings by the department's Office of Professional Accountability between January 2002 and July of this year.

Steve Miletich: 206-46403302 or smiletich@seattletimes.com"
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:04:49 PM EDT
Now I see why that asshat wants more gun control.


He cant keep track of his and his rogue cops cant control their tempers to keep from shooting panhandlers.




Guess who will be getting a phone call Monday morning.

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:18:05 PM EDT
I heard about this incident from a source of mine the morning after it happened.

Seems the two cops were out on a date together, and the SPD officer was under the influence at the time and got a little out of control.

Happened at about the same timeframe as the "accidental double discharge" of an officer's weapon while on off duty work at a local supermarket. In that case he was showing off for a girlfriend and manage to shoot himself while discharging his firearm twice in a store aisle. The department went out of their way to cover it up. The responding officers got the girlfriend out of there really quickly.

It wasn't a good week for the SPD.

Hmmm, both cases have the possible "showing off for the girlfriend" element.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:20:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:21:56 PM EDT
wow, i wanna join the police!

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:31:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 3:32:49 PM EDT by voilsb]
So, uh, why isn't she being charged with attempted murder, if the bum's story ("I'm going to kill you", etc) was more credible than the cop's?



(Please say "corruption," please say "corruption")
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:42:40 PM EDT
Whether the story is more credible to the prosecutor or Internal Affairs still doesn't make it a case you can prove in a court of law. Without other witnesses, you have the word of a panhandler against two law enforcement officers, who will testify that the panhandler was first verbally abusive and then became physical and assaulted one of them. It's not what you know or believed happened, it's what you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. You know the other officers aren't going to be forthcoming with anything.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:56:45 PM EDT
Two years ago a Somali cab driver picked up a couple from a Beacon Hill bar and they wanted to go to West Seattle. They started arguing and then changed their minds and changed the destination to Madison Park.


While going out Madison, near Broadmoor, the male pulls a gun out and points it at the cab drivers head. The female pushes the gun away and it goes off through the roff. The driver jumps from the cab and dials 911.

The couple stay in the cab until the cops arrive. At which time they give the guy and his guna nd his girl a ride. The cab has a bullet hole in the roof and the driver has the fired brass.


Off duty cop. Drunk as a skunk. And a lucky one, the wrong cab and he would have been killed for that stupid shit.

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:04:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 6:05:28 PM EDT by sixgunsblazing]

Originally Posted By CavVet:
Now I see why that asshat wants more gun control.


He cant keep track of his and his rogue cops cant control their tempers to keep from shooting panhandlers.




Guess who will be getting a phone call Monday morning after 5.





We'll be listening!
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 11:08:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LawTalkingGuy:
I heard about this incident from a source of mine the morning after it happened.

Seems the two cops were out on a date together, and the SPD officer was under the influence at the time and got a little out of control.



Kinda funny how it's OK for them to go out & get all sudsed up while carrying. Then again, may be not.


...Happened at about the same timeframe as the "accidental double discharge" of an officer's weapon while on off duty work at a local supermarket. In that case he was showing off for a girlfriend and manage to shoot himself while discharging his firearm twice in a store aisle. The department went out of their way to cover it up. The responding officers got the girlfriend out of there really quickly.

It wasn't a good week for the SPD.

Hmmm, both cases have the possible "showing off for the girlfriend" element.



A somewhat long time ago in another state & town far (though unfortunately, not far enough) away, in a former life, I used to work the night shift @ the local ER admitting dept. Had an off-duty come in w/ a Glock 40 in one hand & part of his little toe in the other. "That's OK" was my reply to his offer to buy his Glock for a good deal. I kindly pointed out that I'd always considered the practice of shoving a loaded HG down the trowsers to be bad practice, & that he got off damned lucky.

He humbly agreed.

I guess my whole problem w/ the official declaration re: "qualified individuals" is that their training usually consists of a couple classes. Takes more than a few classes, IMO. Intro classes do not make one amply "qualified" or fit to handle a firearm - as clearly demonstrated in these 2 moronic examples. The way the gov't tells it, all you need is to attend "state-certified" class & an official sticker on your forehead & your an instant canned pro.

Training, practice, practice, practice, & experience are vastly underrated qualities these days.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:59:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:05:28 AM EDT
DA 1st/SA 2nd semi-auto?

Trey
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:24:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:54:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By LawTalkingGuy:
manage to shoot himself while discharging his firearm twice in a store aisle.



how in the hell do you shoot yourself accidentally TWICE?



Maybe he was BF it.


Looks like a deffinate double standard, had I done that on our recent trip up there, I would still be calling Cav to bring me peanuts in the can.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:12:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:

Originally Posted By LawTalkingGuy:
I heard about this incident from a source of mine the morning after it happened.

Seems the two cops were out on a date together, and the SPD officer was under the influence at the time and got a little out of control.



Kinda funny how it's OK for them to go out & get all sudsed up while carrying. Then again, may be not.


...Happened at about the same timeframe as the "accidental double discharge" of an officer's weapon while on off duty work at a local supermarket. In that case he was showing off for a girlfriend and manage to shoot himself while discharging his firearm twice in a store aisle. The department went out of their way to cover it up. The responding officers got the girlfriend out of there really quickly.

It wasn't a good week for the SPD.

Hmmm, both cases have the possible "showing off for the girlfriend" element.



A somewhat long time ago in another state & town far (though unfortunately, not far enough) away, in a former life, I used to work the night shift @ the local ER admitting dept. Had an off-duty come in w/ a Glock 40 in one hand & part of his little toe in the other. "That's OK" was my reply to his offer to buy his Glock for a good deal. I kindly pointed out that I'd always considered the practice of shoving a loaded HG down the trowsers to be bad practice, & that he got off damned lucky.

He humbly agreed.

I guess my whole problem w/ the official declaration re: "qualified individuals" is that their training usually consists of a couple classes. Takes more than a few classes, IMO. Intro classes do not make one amply "qualified" or fit to handle a firearm - as clearly demonstrated in these 2 moronic examples. The way the gov't tells it, all you need is to attend "state-certified" class & an official sticker on your forehead & your an instant canned pro.

Training, practice, practice, practice, & experience are vastly underrated qualities these days.



It could have been much worse. Here is an incident that happened to a drunken redneck from Maontana several years ago. I think he probabbly has a new nick name now. His friends call him "Stubby!"


The Maroon Corner...AGAIN! Folks, the Second Amendment and large doses
of whiskey DO NOT MIX!

May 18, 2002

News Briefs for Saturday, May 18, 2002

Man shoots himself while stuffing gun in waistband

GREAT FALLS (AP) - A 22-year-old Great Falls man shot off his right
testicle Friday while stuffing a .40-caliber semiautomatic
handgun in his waistband, police said.

Officer Keith Perkins said the man, whom he declined to identify, was
upset because a buddy had been cut in a bar fight and
several friends, including the 22-year-old, were in a parking lot
looking for the culprits in the predawn hours.

"When the group decided not to do what they were going to do, he decided
he was going to take the gun back home," Perkins
said.

The man, who had been drinking, shot off his testicle, injured his penis
and put a hole in his right thigh, the officer said. A friend
took him to the hospital.

The officer said police initially thought of ticketing the man for
disorderly conduct but likely won't, under the circumstances.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:12:34 PM EDT
Nothing like partially removing oneself from the gene pool.

The biggest problem I have with the whole reduced penalty thing is that an ordinary person would know be in jail charged with four or five counts. Cops are civilians except when their in uniform on duty and then they are still just civilians with the authority to make arrests. The fact this woman chose to lie pretty much says it all.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:42:31 PM EDT
This thread is useless without an appologist.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:19:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 10:20:03 AM EDT by mordecai]

Originally Posted By HABU:
This thread is useless without an appologist.




Ok - I'll do it. You each realize, don't you, that if you want this same double-standard-treatment, all you have to do is become sworn - seems like reasonable insurance, doesn't it? (I know, it was half-hearted but it wasn't exactly sincere .... sorry)
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:32:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 10:36:41 AM EDT by R-32]
I know who the Female deputy is....


I do no think there is a single guy on this board that can kick her ass, In fact, Im willing to bet that there are not 5 of us team'd up that could do it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:52:02 AM EDT
Then I think I might know who that is also...
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:54:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Then I think I might know who that is also...



odd's are good you do,
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:56:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
I know who the Female deputy is....


I do no think there is a single guy on this board that can kick her ass, In fact, Im willing to bet that there are not 5 of us team'd up that could do it.



What does that have to do with her being held accountable for criminal actions?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:01:19 AM EDT
Deputy didn't do it- her "friend" the city cop did it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:12:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Deputy didn't do it- her "friend" the city cop did it.



Naturally I don't have enough knowledge of the incident to pass judgement, but I can't see how there were no charges filed against the panhandler if the officers' story was the true one. I can however see how no charges came against the fine upstanding officers.


Fulmer told investigators she dropped her .38-caliber revolver and accidentally fired it once while picking it up as she chased the panhandler about 1:15 a.m. She said the panhandler had struck her companion, an off-duty Snohomish County sheriff's deputy, with a glass juice bottle while aggressively seeking money from them and making derogatory remarks about two women being together.

The panhandler, who was arrested, told police both women had lunged at him before he swung the bottle in self-defense. No charges were brought against him.

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 11:26:02 AM EDT
Here's another moron in uniform that shouldn't be allowed to handle a firearm!

Cop accidentally shoots self


Posted December 10, 2005

EUSTIS -- A Lake County deputy sheriff is recovering at home after he accidentally shot himself while he was securing his gun in his Eustis home, according to the Sheriff's Office.

Deputy Sheriff David Nies, 59, was putting the trigger lock on the gun when it discharged, shooting him in the groin on Dec. 1, Sgt. Christie Mysinger said. Nies thought he had unloaded the weapon but accidentally left a round in the chamber, she said.

Sheriff's Office veteran assigned to the civil division, was taken to Orlando Regional Medical Center. He was released a few days later, Mysinger said.

Sheriff's officials are looking into the incident.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 12:55:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 12:58:17 PM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By R-32:
I know who the Female deputy is....


I do no think there is a single guy on this board that can kick her ass, In fact, Im willing to bet that there are not 5 of us team'd up that could do it.



What does that have to do with her being held accountable for criminal actions?



I doubt they would not have needed a gun in the first place...
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 12:57:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By R-32:
I know who the Female deputy is....


I do no think there is a single guy on this board that can kick her ass, In fact, Im willing to bet that there are not 5 of us team'd up that could do it.



What does that have to do with her being held accountable for criminal actions?



They would not have needed a gun in the first place...



So, we're talking "burly women" here?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 2:17:50 PM EDT
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