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Posted: 12/12/2003 12:05:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 12:17:37 PM EDT by R-32]
First off, I need to know if there is a law in Washington State that says that FFL's have to report all Handgun sales to the local Sheriff?.

Reason....


I have a CPL, It has come to my attention that Every pistol that I have picked up from a FFL is now popping up with all the information if my name is run/or my gun is run for stolen check. The way it looks to me is that when I got the pistol, the dealer calls the Snohomish Co. sheriffs records dept. They then enter the information on my pistol into the State Computer (WACIC/ACCESS/NCIC).

The info that comes up...

My name, address, phone number,My SSN, the SN of the pistol, make of the pistol , cal., and date I got the thing.

I did not read anything about you getting your pistol's register'd when I Got a CPL...I did not read anything about you getting your pistols register'd when I was filling out my 4473 and the Washington State form...

I now understand that If I want them removed I have to sell the pistol, and provide the Information on the buyer along with my info on a form. to the records dept at the sheriffs office.

Is this a State law?..Would this happen if I did not have a CPL?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 1:02:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 1:02:52 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]
You know that green form that the dealer fills out when you buy a handgun; guess where it goes off to.

www.dol.wa.gov/ppu/firmemo.htm
PROCESS CHANGES TO APPLICATION TO TRANSFER PISTOL OR REVOLVER FORMS

As part of the 1999/2001 state operating budget, the Department of Licensing (DOL) has received funding to eliminate the backlog and resume entering handgun data received from firearm dealers into the DOL firearms database.

They are watching you!

The state even makes a form to record and document a person to person sale if you are so inclined to do so as it is voluntary. www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.pdf

Link Posted: 12/12/2003 2:19:28 PM EDT
I feel safer already....
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:13:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
<snip>
I did not read anything about you getting your pistols register'd when I was filling out my 4473 and the Washington State form...

<snip>



Don't you read what you are signing?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 11:21:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By R-32:
<snip>
I did not read anything about you getting your pistols register'd when I was filling out my 4473 and the Washington State form...

<snip>



Don't you read what you are signing?




Let me say it this way...There is nothing on the form that says that you are vol. registering a handgun.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 11:27:46 PM EDT
I also need to say that I am so FUCKING FROSTED over this....I will sell the firearms....I will NEVER buy a handgun from a FFL again.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:55:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 8:58:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 10:34:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2003 10:54:16 AM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:
Why,why and why?





1. Im frosted because once again, Someone else thinks they know what is best for me, And it must be good to know what Handguns I have in my house.

2. I will sell the firearms just to get them out of the house, and out of the system, I don't care at this point about anything other than getting them off of someone's computer. I want to set them free!

3. As long as the State is regestering handguns and not telling owners, I see no reason to help them. (it really has nothing to do with the FFL)

And as for your YES/YES...

1. I have been looking at the RCW's and the WAC's, Can you show me where it says that it is law?...

2. The only proof that I have seen with the info showing is for a CPL, I have not seen one pop up for anyone without a CPL yet.


We live in a state that takes (last I heard) about 7.6 million dollars A DAY to run, The clown's in Olympia have decided. That they would scrap the chance for the State population to vote on the presidential pri. election to save the state the amount that equals ONE day's operations budget. Now Im for trimming the budget and getting rid of wasteful spending, But If you guys really think that spending the money to print up these forms, pay persons at OLYDOL to sit around and enter Your information into a computer for no other reason then to have that info "just in case" Then maybe Im "Over" reacting... But hell talk about a waste of funds, If they waste money on shit like this, It really blows me away to see what else they are spending money on......
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 1:15:00 AM EDT
This might be a stupid question but o'well.

What is this green form that you guys are talking about. I have never seen this form and have purchased several pistols. The only form I fill out is the 4473 and show them my CPL.

I will have to ask my dealer next week about it and see what they have to say.

If all of that information goes into a data base it sounds to me like a mandatory registration of our handguns then.

As a former CBT (deputy) I know that NCIC does not have information in it with all your firearms data. It could be kept on a seperate data base but is not available to LE in general. Really the only info in NCIC for firearms is to check and see if it is stolen or not.

Link Posted: 12/14/2003 1:45:57 AM EDT
NightSniper, use the state gun file. I have been checking out all the manuals on this at work, It looks like the info is given to DOL via your county records dept. everytime you get a handgun in the state of wasington from a FFL.


And yes it equates to mandatory registration in my book.

I think Phil posted a link to it in a above post.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 9:38:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2003 9:47:58 AM EDT by NWRed]
It's called a "Sheriff's Form" FAIK, notifying the county of your purchase. To the best of my knowledge Snohomish county is the only one that ties yer DL to yer CPL, but I don't follow this sorta stuff like i used to so it may have changed. My CPL isnt from Snohomish county and til its time to renew I'll keep it the way it is. The only time Ive been asked about having firearms during a traffic stop was when the Trooper saw a ammo can in the back seat of the car. I dont get stopped much but its never come up via CPL/DL check.

Edited to add: I just called the gunshop I spend to much time at and asked them for the form number, FIR652-001 " Pistol Transfer Form"
Its a three copy form, one stays with the yer 4473 at the gunshop, one goes to the County, and one goes to Olympia, presumably DOL. HTH
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:07:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:36:03 AM EDT
Well from what I can gather, I does not come up if a Dep./officer runs your plates or your DL, But if they run you by name. You will pop as being a CPL (if you have one) from this info all they have to do is goto the gun file and enter your name,CPL number,or the SN of the firearm, and your listed pistols will show. I am now trying to find out if a Dep./Ofcr wants to, can they go "fishing" and just enter your name into the gun file and get your info if you dont have a CPL?,my guess is yes. If the store reports it to the county sheriff then my guess is that they enter it.

So as of now, Im still sure that this is mandatory registration, without the owner knowing about it.

What Im going to try to find out now is This a Vol. thing on behalf of the county you live in, or is it a State requirement that they enter your Pistols into DOL.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:43:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2003 10:46:32 AM EDT by NightSniper]
Very interesting. Is WA turning into another PRK? I guess the answer to this is to buy private...

Thanks for the info guys.

Link Posted: 12/14/2003 11:40:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 5:39:34 PM EDT
I used to be on the "inside" of this, but it's
been years.

DOL used to input the records of handgun
purchases by owner but they got lax and made
it less of a priority. If they recently got
funding to bridge the gap like posted above,
that's news but wholly possible.

Handgun transfers from dealers have a copy that
is sent off to the local PD. If DOL gets a
copy now, that's news too, but again - doesn't
surprise me. They may be getting it from local
PD. This is how is used to work. Local PD
would get the form, and input it directly into
the DOL database - but diligence was very spotty.
Many PD's didn't do it because of manpower issues.
It's possible, again, there's some new mandate?

Is this registration? Sorta. Nothing mandatory
about it - it's just information collection,
which sucks. But let's be honest - if you've
ever purchased one handgun "on record" - they'll
flag you, period. If diligence is ever borne,
they'll assimilate all of the already available
records and flag you that way too. It's all
very accessible to them.

Lastly - getting your records automatically.
Before, these systems weren't tied together.
Now - it's pretty easy for a Lic plate check
to tie the name, SSN and DOB together to get
the CWP and list of handguns, as well as warrants, etc...

Do officer's go fishing in these records? Yes.
Duh. Power's inherent attribute is abuse.

Should it cheese you off? Sure. Will it do
much good? Who can say? Technology today
is just taking the already existing info and
making it more readily available, more quickly.
Can't stop "progress"...
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 4:22:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By R-32:
<snip>
I did not read anything about you getting your pistols register'd when I was filling out my 4473 and the Washington State form...

<snip>



Don't you read what you are signing?



I gotta back you there Jafo....It says right on the the form your are supposed to read before you sign where all of these forms go. I am not saying it doesn't suck or that it is a waste of money or time. I am just stating that its pretty obvious that it is being tracked by those forms. This has nothing to do with your carry permit just handgun sales period. Although if your worried about people knowing information about you, like the Police, then maybe you should turn in your carry permit also. They have access to that information also and know if you have a permit weather or not you volunteer that info or not on a traffic stop...
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:46:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
<snip>
What Im going to try to find out now is This a Vol. thing on behalf of the county you live in, or is it a State requirement that they enter your Pistols into DOL.



RCW 9.41.090
Dealer deliveries regulated -- Hold on delivery.



5) At the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol, the purchaser shall sign in triplicate and deliver to the dealer an application containing his or her full name, residential address, date and place of birth, race, and gender; the date and hour of the application; the applicant's driver's license number or state identification card number; a description of the pistol including the make, model, caliber and manufacturer's number if available at the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol.



The dealer shall, by the end of the business day, sign and attach his or her address and deliver a copy of the application and such other documentation as required under subsection (1) of this section to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of which the purchaser is a resident.


The distribution by your sheriff or chief to the DOL doesn't seem to be outlined in this law, but perhaps I missed it or it's in another.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 11:31:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 11:57:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 12:05:47 AM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By Belial:

Originally Posted By JAFO:

Originally Posted By R-32:
<snip>
I did not read anything about you getting your pistols register'd when I was filling out my 4473 and the Washington State form...

<snip>



Don't you read what you are signing?



I gotta back you there Jafo....It says right on the the form your are supposed to read before you sign where all of these forms go. I am not saying it doesn't suck or that it is a waste of money or time. I am just stating that its pretty obvious that it is being tracked by those forms. This has nothing to do with your carry permit just handgun sales period. Although if your worried about people knowing information about you, like the Police, then maybe you should turn in your carry permit also. They have access to that information also and know if you have a permit weather or not you volunteer that info or not on a traffic stop...



I read it word for word, no where does it say that your pistol will be register'd or enter'd into any computer data base....second you will NOT pop up as a CPL holder from a simple traffic stop. (I am a 9-1-1 dispatcher, I run lots of people every day) The way they find out if you have a CPL is if you give them the information, or they run you by your name for some reason. (like if you are drunk in public and you give them your lic./or a big no-no, the dep/ofcr "go's fishing" and just runs your name for no reason.) Now I just happen to have access to WACIC and ACCESS files at work as part of my everyday job. (I even took a stolen firearm out of the system of a member that has posted in this post) Now I have never had to run a gun for a stolen check before, but I do worry about the fact that we have a mask that you can fill out, and part of that mask I can enter just your name....and bing up pops your handguns....If I wanted to just run a stolen check on your guns I can do a one line command and it will show if it is stolen, or if it is not, it will say no record found...

anyway, it looks like JAFO found what I was looking for (thanks JAFO)....

Now...I want to know why the State spends good Tax dollars on a waste of time like this.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 10:16:42 PM EDT
RCW 9.41.110

(9)(a) A true record in triplicate shall be made of every pistol sold, in a book kept for the purpose, the form of which may be prescribed by the director of licensing and shall be personally signed by the purchaser and by the person effecting the sale, each in the presence of the other, and shall contain the date of sale, the caliber, make, model and manufacturer's number of the weapon, the name, address, occupation, and place of birth of the purchaser and a statement signed by the purchaser that he or she is not ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm.

(b) One copy shall within six hours be sent by certified mail to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of which the purchaser is a resident; the duplicate the dealer shall within seven days send to the director of licensing; the triplicate the dealer shall retain for six years.

(10) Subsections (2) through (9) of this section shall not apply to sales at wholesale



It was in this one Jafo...dug it up to find out if that copy really had to be sent...

Cheers ...
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