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Posted: 8/19/2003 4:44:28 PM EDT
I haven't been there in about 5 years. Saw some pics somewhere of the place and it looks a lot different. Anyone go there regularly who might want to meet up and show me around? I'm not really interested in the ISPC or cowboy stuff or anything. I just want to do some range shooting. Also, I've heard mixed stories on 1 round in a magazine at a time. Is this true? Is it true for non-members only?

Let me know.
Thanks

Jim
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 6:58:57 PM EDT
on saturday and sunday mornings if i try to sleep in, i'm awakened by the sweet sound of gun-fire from the renton range. 1 round limit is sadly true, same as kenmore last i was there. they might let you load a mag, they just don't want rapid fire. pistol you can load mags, but again no rapid fire. funny, you should hear the ipsc practice on thursday night! my schedule is wacky so tough to meet up, but staff there is friendly. they'll let you check it out. closed mon. & tues.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 8:32:16 AM EDT
I try and make it out shooting there every weekend. Don't always succeed though. The 1 round rule is a pain in the butt, but on the flip side it is there for a reason. They are right in the middle of a bunch of houses so anything that goes wrong, a skipped rock, a stray bullet, could mean closure for the range. Just two weeks ago a bullet skipped and landed on someones back deck when they were having a BBQ, no one got hurt, and the person used to be a member luckily so he just gave a heads up and didn't raise a stink, but there are alot of people around there that don't like the range and would look for any reason to close it down. So the concern on the rifle range is someone getting irresponsible letting loose on the trigger, and losing a bullet. And I'm sure that most people are quite responsible, but it only takes 1 person to screw it up for everyone.
Now, to show that Jim ( the rangemaster ) isn't just someone with a stick up his butt, once you are a regular attendee there, he knows you a bit, and you have proven that you can shoot well, if you ask he will give you permission to load more that one. Although rapid firing is still not allowed.
Yeah, the IPSC bays are kinda hypocritical, and there a few people (myself included) who don't really like them. I mean, the idea is great, but the layout isn't as safe as I feel is should be. I have, on two occasions, while shooting on the rifle range had stray bullets that bounced off of something land next to me, once while on the firing line, and once while walking up to check targets.
But anyone who wants to get togther up there would be fun, I'm always looking for someone to shoot with.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 2:26:16 PM EDT
One round in the mag, one shot at a time is pathetic. I can't even see the point of bothering to own and maintain a repeating firearm if you can't even use it as such. Formal ranges really kill the fun aspects of shooting.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 8:52:08 AM EDT
Obviously either you didn't read my post, or you are more interested in having fun than being safe. The range is in the middle of a WHOLE LOT OF HOUSES. Is killing your fun at a range not woth the possibility of killing someone in their front yard? What happens when a round goes stray? or skips? I'm not saying that shooting fast is bad, heck I own an AR and I love it, and I love tearing up targets, but there is a place for things like that, and renton is not that place. If you really have a problem with it then don't go there. Black diamond gun club lets you shoot however you want and its only about 1/2 hour south of renton. So if thats what you want, give them a call.
I will just say that being responsible is necessary for the survival of our hobby / sport, and if people don't want to look at their surroundings and adapt their shooting accordingly, we will run out of places to shoot fast.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 9:31:16 AM EDT
Most if not of all us can have fun and be safe at the same time. I can understand a no rapid fire rule, like no more than one shot every one or two seconds, but onerous rules like only one round in the mag at a time are just too restrictive. But don't worry, you'll never catch me at restrictive ranges like Renton or Kenmore. Our hobby/sport won't survive if everything fun and interesting is sucked out of it, too.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 10:18:56 AM EDT
I have to agree with Boomer for the most part. So what if I want to load up my mags the night before a range trip? It doesn't mean that my finger will go out of my control and make me bump fire like a madman until my mags are empty. I may take my mauser down there to sight in, but I don't think I'm in any hurry.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 2:57:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2003 3:00:51 PM EDT by Phil_in_Seattle]
You guys really have to understand that Kenmore is surrounded by lots of folcks that would love to have them closed down. These are the kinds of folks that were lobbying to keep Kenmores land on the short list of sites for the location of a waste water treatment facility. They'd rather have shit filled water in their back yard than a gun club. (of course once Kenmore did get closed down/relocated then the neighbors would quickly shift their focus to gettting the waste treatment moved somewhere else!)

They want to keep their club open so they've put in place rules to help them do that.

The one round in the gun rule enforces the no rapid fire rule otherwise what is to keep they guy who paid his range fee from just deciding his going to rip off the entire contents of his last magazine as fast as he can pull the trigger regardless of whether he can control his gun or not and 28 of the 30 rounds get over the berm and off of the ranges property? What does he care if he gets tossed out or not because he's out of ammuntion after that magazine anyway and he only goes the the range once a year anyway.


Our hobby/sport won't survive if everything fun and interesting is sucked out of it, too.


What's fun to you might not be fun to the benchrest guys or the deer hunting guys. You can leave the one round in the gun no rapid fire places for them and we can go to our places for shoot fast and move stuff.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 4:14:07 PM EDT
So with ranges like Kenmore, Renton, etc, who needs a semi-auto? When there is nowhere else left that is convenient to shoot, I might as well sell everything but my Ruger #1 and call it good.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 4:42:31 PM EDT
You know if you don't frikkin like their rules, don't go there.

It's been explained to you why they have the rules they have and why the need to have them that way.

Rules=keep the club
No rules=lose the club.

Is that a Ruger#1 in something fun like 375H&H or 416 Rigby?

Link Posted: 8/22/2003 5:04:01 PM EDT
Yeah, we're advocating no rules at all, right?

Come on, stop living up that liberal city in your user name by arguing like a liberal.

Their rules are no skin off my nose. Like I said, I won't support them or shoot there as long as they are so restrictive and distrustful of their members. It's their loss, not mine. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about their silly rules. Let's see how long appeasement and contining to cater to a relatively small segment of the shooting community proves a succesful strategy.

The Ruger #1 is just a boring old .280 Rem/ 7mm Express.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 10:23:34 PM EDT
I don't shoot there myself, I just understand why they have to have the rules they have.

Did you ever think that it's not their regular members that they are so distrustful of but rather the guy who shows pays his one day range fee with his brand new rifle and a stack full of magazines and doesn't care about the rules cause he knows how to shoot.

A range that loses potential members because they operate in ways you don't like has taken a loss by losing the member but they stand a good chance of losing the entire facility if they don't watch their Ps&Qs.

My club in Puyallup they have to keep a crack down on the rapid fire there too. I understand that every year or two the NRA comes out and helps survey the land to find how far out the furthest bullet impacts are in order to make sure there is still a big enough safety zone for the morons who build houses downrange of a long existing rifle range.

Rules=keep the club
No rules=lose the club.

Bet they let you load more than one round at a time during their CMP matches too!


Boomer we aren't at opposite ends of the spectrum on this I just seem to see better that they are doing what they feel they need to do to have their club and it must suit a large number of their members or they would vote to change it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 10:33:27 PM EDT
Someone might take an "assault weapon" that holds more than 10 rounds and shoot up a school. We should gladly turn them all over because of something someone might do, right?

Nobody is talking about picketing the ranges, just non-participation. Think about this... say the rules were a little more lax at the range 20 years ago, before as many houses were surrounding the range. Perhaps there would have been more people rapid firing at them, and when Suzy and Johnny Liberalnew-homeowner were looking at the property for sale next door to the range, they would have heard it and decided to live somewhere else.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 7:16:50 AM EDT
"Someone might take an "assault weapon" that holds more than 10 rounds and shoot up a school. We should gladly turn them all over because of something someone might do, right?"

This hardly pertains to the situation at hand. You are comparing an intentional act a person might do that is wrong and illegal, to a consequence of an accident that could potentally happen if the right safeguards are in place. The comparison you are making is the equivilant of working on top of a highrise and not wearing a safety harness becuase some idiot jumped off the top of a building once. It really makes no sense.

And Jafo is right, those people probably shouldn't have moved in there, however I doubt semi-auto fire or not would have deterred them. Because with as many guns that are there on a saturday, it is pretty loud as it is. Its not a matter of the noise, its a matter of the lawsuit that could arise if a stray bullet were to go through a window. Granted the range has been there for many more years than most the houses, but do you think a lawyer would care, as he is proving a case of negligence against range for not providing proper safeguards to retain stray bullets from ending up in the surrounding houses. It only takes one incident, and one person who wants to take it to court.

Its not the majority of people they are worried about, and I doubt it is even the members they are concerned about either as they have a vested interest in the club, it is that ONE person who shows up with no regard for the rules, that empties his mag as fast as he can without being able to properly control his gun.
Personally, I'd rather have a restrictive range, than no range.
If you really don't like it, then don't go there. Black diamond gun club has a nice range, with no rules on how to shoot. Cascade out in ravensdale also used to have a really nice range that wasn't regulated either ( I haven't been there in years though ).

Think about this for half a second.
Just because I want to paint my house blue, and you don't like it doesn't mean you have to come over for dinner, there are other places you can eat as well. And if you really don't like the color blue that much, you will probably be MUCH better served going elsewhere. No hard feelings, simply a matter of preference.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 3:32:48 PM EDT
Maybe my analogy wasn't all that great. The only point I was trying to make is that these rules are in place because of something that *might* happen.

I personally have NEVER had a rifle empty the mag on it's own. It has just never happened. It goes bang when I pull the trigger, and only then.

You can't guarantee that some negligent person isn't going to send a round in a dangerous direction, no matter how many rounds are in the gun.

Anyway, the ranges might survive longer if they have "babysitter" rules in place. Perhaps they would survive longer if they had more members paying dues. Who knows?

Nobody is trying to change their rules. Some will go there, some will not. I may go there to sight in my bolt rifle, I may not. I just asked about the rule. I don't agree with that rule. That is just my opinion. It may or may not keep me from going there.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:25:58 PM EDT
PS - I like my steak well done. Shall I bring some beer for dinner? Is the blue more of a gaudy Royal blue, or a nice mellow Slate blue?



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