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Posted: 6/5/2003 3:43:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 3:43:50 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
I am in PA all the time. So, Can I have a loaded handgun in the car? How about a loaded Rifle?

Whats the rules regarding having guns and ammo in the car?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:49:33 PM EDT
I beleive that you need a concealed carry permit from PA or one of the few other states who's permits are honored by PA (MD is not one of those states) to have a loaded, concealed, firearm in a vehicle.

I have no idea about rifles hanging on a gun rack in plain view.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:43:56 PM EDT
You need a valid in PA handgun CCW to carry a loaded handgun in the car. There is NO carry of a loaded longarm unless it is black powder and the igniton device is removed. "Loaded" in PA means ammo in the magazine. Yes its bullshit, we're working on it. Ops
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 4:47:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ops:
You need a valid in PA handgun CCW to carry a loaded handgun in the car. There is NO carry of a loaded longarm unless it is black powder and the igniton device is removed. "Loaded" in PA means ammo in the magazine. Yes its bullshit, we're working on it. Ops





WHAT!!
Thats just as bad as MD guns in the car rules.


Awww come on PA. Your slipp'n!
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 1:56:42 PM EDT
Move here and get a CCW than you carry loaded. To my understanding its ammo separated from weapon , in the case of a magazine feed weapon its empty mags . I could be wrong. Hey its not nearly as bad here as it is in New Jersey.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 4:47:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:
I am in PA all the time. So, Can I have a loaded handgun in the car? How about a loaded Rifle?

Whats the rules regarding having guns and ammo in the car?

Thanks!



Being from out of state with 'anything loaded, you'll definately loose the gun plus, you'll be spending some time in the PD while they sort 'you out. You won't get the guns back. Keep 'em cased and keep a "target" or two, with them. Note: if the Game Commission yahoo's stop you in the woods, and they find a non-resident with a loaded gun, be ready for the body cavity search plus all of the above!
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:43:13 AM EDT
Looks like I better rethink my ways. According to these posts I have been unknowingly breaking the law every time I'm in PA. I've always carried my AR15 around in my trunk like this; Weapon unloaded in it's original Bushmaster hard case with no trigger lock, case shut closed but no locks on it, and here's where I believe I go astray...Ammo would be in ammo cans and my mags would be in my range bag always loaded. I didn't know that loaded mags were illegal in PA. That's not even a crime in NY where I was arrested(wrongly)for having an AR in the trunk. So even if you are going to the range and everything is stored as mentioned above, you can't keep pre-loaded mags in your trunk? I would like to be 100% clear on this issue. TIA.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 9:30:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2003 9:34:27 AM EDT by slidestop]

Originally Posted By oneshot1kill:
Looks like I better rethink my ways. According to these posts I have been unknowingly breaking the law every time I'm in PA. I've always carried my AR15 around in my trunk like this; Weapon unloaded in it's original Bushmaster hard case with no trigger lock, case shut closed but no locks on it, and here's where I believe I go astray...Ammo would be in ammo cans and my mags would be in my range bag always loaded. I didn't know that loaded mags were illegal in PA. That's not even a crime in NY where I was arrested(wrongly)for having an AR in the trunk. So even if you are going to the range and everything is stored as mentioned above, you can't keep pre-loaded mags in your trunk? I would like to be 100% clear on this issue. TIA.



Hey OS1K
I wasn't totally sure about the loaded mag question but I did some searching and found out the real deal . Laws <<Click.

If you read the *Carrying* part ,#2 when engaged in target shooting or while going to or from shooters' places of assembly or target practice, provided the firearm is unloaded and the ammunition is carried in a separate container; I would interpret *separate container* as apart from the weapon ,thus out of the mag. That plays it safe ,because it really doesn't matter how I interpret that its how the Trooper or Cop interprets it.


SaFe ShOoTiNg
Jerry

Link Posted: 6/8/2003 5:07:19 PM EDT
I would interpret *separate container* as apart from the weapon ,thus out of the mag. That plays it safe ,because it really doesn't matter how I interpret that its how the Trooper or Cop interprets it.


SaFe ShOoTiNg
Jerry



This statement sums it up! Its the "attitude" of the LE. Most are reasonable men, some are 'yahoo's. Err on the side of caution.{:)]
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 5:54:02 PM EDT
Thanks for the update and the link. I agree that it's probably best to play it safe and keep the mags unloaded. I'll just be sure to pre-load a lot of strippers before a range trip.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 5:00:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ops:
There is NO carry of a loaded longarm unless it is black powder and the igniton device is removed.




Unless it is a short barrel rifle or shotgun. Then it can be loaded and carried, etc.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 5:27:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2003 5:30:19 AM EDT by 9supercomp]
On the NRAILA page for PA under Notes:
3. A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in cases of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. If the firearm uses a detachable magazine, the term means a magazine suitable for use in the firearm which contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment as the firearm.

Unlike it is here in MD where you can't even have the mags loaded in a separate container.
I shoot with several police officers (state and local) in the state and they say loaded mags are OK as long as they are not in the same container as the firearm.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:33:48 AM EDT
what if you drive a station wagon or suv? does a gun case count as a seperate container?
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:04:34 AM EDT
I think when they say compartment, they are talking about gun case, ammo box, etc. I have pistol rugs that have two zippered pockets. Gun in one and ammo in the other.
I know in MD the firearm must be out of the reach of the drive. In a car it needs to be in the trunk. In a station wagon/SUV in the rear of the vehicle. In a pickup it needs to be behind the passenger's seat.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 12:53:41 PM EDT

WHAT!!
Thats just as bad as MD guns in the car rules.



What makes you think we want a bunch of outta-staters running around here with loaded guns?


Link Posted: 6/12/2003 4:42:17 AM EDT
I was just told by an attorney that out of state residents can open carry in PA w/out a license.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:18:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
I was just told by an attorney that out of state residents can open carry in PA w/out a license.




Hey, thats not funny!
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:27:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2003 8:29:26 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
I was just told by an attorney that out of state residents can open carry in PA w/out a license.




Hey, thats not funny!



I'm not joking, ask Forest for confirmation.

No loaded rifles in the car in PA, period.

As a matter of fact, I've been practicing open carry since Sunday. It's amazing how much respect I garner now - "yes Sir, do you want anything else on your sub?" "Thank you Sir" "Have a good day Sir"

Kewl.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:37:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

I'm not joking, ask Forest for confirmation.

No loaded rifles in the car in PA, period.

As a matter of fact, I've been practicing open carry since Sunday. It's amazing how much respect I garner now - "yes Sir, do you want anything else on your sub?" "Thank you Sir" "Have a good day Sir"

Kewl.




You sure? Lets see a link to some sort of PA code. You know how I am here in MD in regard to carrying, so don't tempt me to carry open.

I know Delaware has open carry but if you do it, your ass is getting locked up for disorderly.

BTW, I was in your neck of the woods last weekend. I am starting to like York more and more. Perhaps I will apply to their Police Department in the fall.

I need to get out of this state ASAP!!!!

Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:48:00 AM EDT
Fight is correct - we went over this with Pete Georgiadas, an Attourney in Pittsburg, owner of the Pennsylvania Firearms Developement Corp, Carbine Trainer extrordinare, and all around good guy.

PA had NO laws relating to open carry (excepts for Cities of the 1st class - Philly is the only 1st class city). Recently there was an opinion by 3 of the States Supreame court judges that confirmed this. Pete's opinion was if he were dragged into a courtroom all he'd have to do is point out the opinions to the judge and he'd be free to go.

While at the carbine class we went out to dinner with the pistol class guys. I saw several of them open carry (including Pete & F4YR).

As for carrying loaded rifle - I recently asked this of and got this reponse back (again from an Attourney). You may NOT carry a loaded rifle in your car. You CAN have loaded magazines in a SEPARATE container. The magazines may not be in the pouch on your rifle buttstock, but could be in the external pouches of the rifles case. I went to the clase with my rifle in its case, and loaded magazines in a USGI 30 round can - it was perfectly legal.

If you go to yahoogroups.com and check into the PGH-Training list this was a recent thread and the relevant parts of the code were listed by the lawyers.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:53:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2003 8:54:09 AM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]

Originally Posted By Forest:
Fight is correct - we went over this with Pete Georgiadas, an Attourney in Pittsburg, owner of the Pennsylvania Firearms Developement Corp, Carbine Trainer extrordinare, and all around good guy.

PA had NO laws relating to open carry (excepts for Cities of the 1st class - Philly is the only 1st class city). Recently there was an opinion by 3 of the States Supreame court judges that confirmed this. Pete's opinion was if he were dragged into a courtroom all he'd have to do is point out the opinions to the judge and he'd be free to go.

While at the carbine class we went out to dinner with the pistol class guys. I saw several of them open carry (including Pete & F4YR).

As for carrying loaded rifle - I recently asked this of and got this reponse back (again from an Attourney). You may NOT carry a loaded rifle in your car. You CAN have loaded magazines in a SEPARATE container. The magazines may not be in the pouch on your rifle buttstock, but could be in the external pouches of the rifles case. I went to the clase with my rifle in its case, and loaded magazines in a USGI 30 round can - it was perfectly legal.

If you go to yahoogroups.com and check into the PGH-Training list this was a recent thread and the relevant parts of the code were listed by the lawyers.




Well, you guy totally made my fucking week! Since I am in PA all the time, I am gonna open carry.

I'll let you know if anything happens.
Thanks!
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:58:24 AM EDT
To clarify - I specifically asked Pete "SO YOU ARE TELLING ME FOREST, A MARYLAND RESIDENT, CAN OPEN CARRY WHEN HE'S VISITING ME IN PA?"

Pete said yes. 2 out of 3 State Supremes agree that open carry is legal.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 10:19:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2003 10:21:54 AM EDT by racebaiter]
interesting...and so timely. i was at a lecture a few weeks ago and the county sheriff made a comment about being able to carry openly all over "god's green earth. except for (downtown)". it got me to thinking abotu what the open carry laws are and what that actually meant. honestly, i'm still not real clear.

also in the same class, someone made a comment about the "UFL" universal firearms law..or something and no loaded rifles in pa. this tipped me off that i might have missed something as i had never heard it before.

defintely need to be clear on the details...
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 1:38:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2003 1:39:11 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]
Ok a quick run down of what we have learned today Can somebody confirm #3 ?

1. NO Loaded rifles in the car, but separated loaded mags are fine.

2. Open carry is permitted except in a "Class 1 City" (Philly)

3. Loaded pistols in the car is ok?

Does this sound right?
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 5:12:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 5:15:40 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
No loaded pistol in the car WITHOUT a permit:


18 § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.


(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree. (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to: 11. Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.



So, try and get a PA permit or a FL permit and it looks like you'd be good to go.

I've heard you can't get a PA permit anymore because you can't get an MD permit. Not certain on that.

PA does honor non-resident FL CCW permits. You can get a FL non-resident CCW by mail, I believe.

Goto www.packing.org for links
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 5:26:32 AM EDT
Ok, carry loaded and open in public but not in your car? Makes a lot of sense right?

I am planning on getting my FL permit this summer, I guess I will be good to go in 18 other states. But my own that is
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