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Posted: 3/7/2006 10:14:03 AM EDT
www.tucsoncitizen.com/news/local/030706a4_zwicker

While I disliked the guy with a passion because he was an amazing asshole, I hope they catch the murderers and let em swing.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:57:13 PM EDT
Big +1 Spectre. Charles.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:34:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 2:37:24 PM EDT by wildearp]
Karma is a bitch, ain't it?

When my brother and I were young pups, but old enough to buy a long gun, we ventured into this assholes store. He was a complete dick to us, and that was 20 years ago. Neither of us ever stepped a foot on his property again.

It is almost Karma-like that someone beat the living hell out of him and then only took one or maybe two guns in a store full of guns. Kinda sounds like someone didn't tolerate the shit he spewed. There is also gang graphiti on the front of his store. I don't think they are likely to collar up on this one......
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:42:53 PM EDT
He might have been an asshole, but he was still a decent American citizen. Shame on all who say "karma" to a fellow citizen.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:46:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 2:48:20 PM EDT by wildearp]
Somewhere in the world, at least once a day, someone gets their punk card pulled. It was his day.

A good American would have sold two cash holding fellow Americans some guns. We went to another store that had a good American that sold us guns. No good American would be a complete ass and cause two good Americans to not buy a gun. Yes, I was also an active Marine at the time.

I don't agree that an ass beating that lead to death was proper, but I do say that it was not unexpected in this case.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:55:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bad_Aim:
He might have been an asshole, but he was still a decent American citizen. Shame on all who say "karma" to a fellow citizen.



Give me a break; this country is full of people unfit for they air they breath.


As for Jerry, I never met the guy so I have no opinion.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:58:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wildearp:
Somewhere in the world, at least once a day, someone gets their punk card pulled. It was his day.

A good American would have sold two cash holding fellow Americans some guns. We went to another store that had a good American that sold us guns. No good American would be a complete ass and cause two good Americans to not buy a gun. Yes, I was also an active Marine at the time.

I don't agree that an ass beating that lead to death was proper, but I do say that it was not unexpected in this case.



He didnt sell you a couple guns. Get over yourself. You are so bitter that because he didnt see you some guns and had a bad attitude his death was somehow justified? Thats fucked up. Real fucked up.

I suggest you step back and realize that he didnt get his wallet stolen, he lost his life. No amount of bad attitude or improper customer fucking service calls for that.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:28:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 4:32:00 PM EDT by wildearp]

Originally Posted By Bad_Aim:

Originally Posted By wildearp:
Somewhere in the world, at least once a day, someone gets their punk card pulled. It was his day.

A good American would have sold two cash holding fellow Americans some guns. We went to another store that had a good American that sold us guns. No good American would be a complete ass and cause two good Americans to not buy a gun. Yes, I was also an active Marine at the time.

I don't agree that an ass beating that lead to death was proper, but I do say that it was not unexpected in this case.



He didnt sell you a couple guns. Get over yourself. You are so bitter that because he didnt see you some guns and had a bad attitude his death was somehow justified? Thats fucked up. Real fucked up.

I suggest you step back and realize that he didnt get his wallet stolen, he lost his life. No amount of bad attitude or improper customer fucking service calls for that.



I never gave it another thought, until someone that had direct info on the case said "ain't Karma a bitch". This was when it was just at the ass beating stage, and for the simple fact that the cash register was untouched, and there wasn't more inventory taken. It seemed to be Karma-like that someone asked about a gun, got the asshole treatment, and handed out an ass beating. I have an opinion. You have an opinion.

I also wonder in what way do I seem bitter? I went forward in life and purchased a 10-22 and a .38, just like the prophecy!!!!
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:38:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bad_Aim:
He might have been an asshole, but he was still a decent American citizen. Shame on all who say "karma" to a fellow citizen.



the world was round last time i checked. Beeing a citizen of america does not excuse you of beeing an asshole any more than any other nationality.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:54:44 PM EDT
Looks like he's STILL succeeding in pissing people off ----he would be happy, i'm sure

I do hope they catch the piece/pieces of shit, though
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:33:46 PM EDT
Haven't been here in awhile but interesting to find a thread where folk attempt to justify or see fit the crime of murder.... --RR
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:24:05 PM EDT
Again, I will go on record as not being a customer or an acquaintance or friend of Jerry Zwicker. That said, those who say he got what he deserved because he was difficult or impossible to deal with are simply condoning murder.

Think about it. Someday some of you young guys here will be old and feel the aches and pains of old age, IF you are lucky enough to live that long. If your neighbor or whoever thought you were difficult or impossible to get along with would that justify them killing you?

The attitude behind this mob-like collective line of thought is really troubling.

Charles.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:36:57 PM EDT
No one is trying to justify his murder. The way I see it some are saying that its possible he got a beat down because he was an asshole to the wrong person. I don't know of anyone who ever had a good experience with him.
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:55:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 7:56:44 PM EDT by the1_roadrunner]

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.


We all have been "assholes" to possibly the "wrong person". Does that mean we should expect to be murdered? --RR
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:04:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
The way I see it some are saying that its possible he got a beat down because he was an asshole to the wrong person.
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.




THERE we go. thats what I was trying to get at
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:28:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 6:38:04 AM EDT by AZ-Dave]
If I had heard he was going out of business, I would have said "fuck him--good riddence"
If I had heard he was going to prison for tax evasion or some shit, I would have said "good--bet they give him an attitude adjustment"
If i heard his store burned down one night and he had no contents insurance, I might say "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy"

But I would never say he deserved to die----saying something like that could bring me bad-----------you know------------------karma

hearing he got his ass whooped several weeks back did bring an instant sense of "what goes around comes around" or "its just Karma"attitude in me, and probably ANYONE else who ever tried to deal with him.
Thats fine, it was just an ass whooping, no one knew how severe. If that same beating was given to a 25 yr. old, he probably would have been at work the next day, but this guy was 78.

Everyone here that had a bad experience with him obviously did the right thing, they walked out the door and never looked back. The person or persons that did this instead beat him-----now its turned to beat him to death. Over a bad attitude from a store keeper?
Sure hope they find the piece of shit before someone else pisses him off, remember now he's definately armed. Sure hope no one here beats him to a parking space or cuts him off heading into a drivethru.

ETA: I don't think anyone here or in the previous thread concerning this were condoning or wishing for this---more like it was a "bound to happen", or "surprised it took this long" kind of thinking...........due to HIS own behavior.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:49:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.


We all have been "assholes" to possibly the "wrong person". Does that mean we should expect to be murdered? --RR



Expect to be murdered ??
No, but actions have consequences and if you are an asshole to someone you run the risk of them not taking it to well and something bad might happen due to your actions.
Does his being an asshole justify his murder...NO....but his being an asshole makes me understand why someone MIGHT have done this.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:12:24 AM EDT
This is why you SHOULD be friendly to others. Cause you don't know who the other person is and what their capable of.

I in no way condone the beating of Jerry, in fact I hope they find the animal and render quick justice.

Just remember, it cost nothing to be nice, but IT COULD cost alot to be an Ass.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:53:26 PM EDT
Gosh, I hate to say it but I also thought Jerry sort of got what was coming to him as far as the beating. But death, nah, the perp has to be caught. I suspect that it was either someone he pissed off back east who found him (New Jersey I think) and it could have been ordered. Or it was someone with a fast temper who smacked him after being insulted and went too far.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:19:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.


We all have been "assholes" to possibly the "wrong person". Does that mean we should expect to be murdered? --RR



Expect to be murdered ??
No, but actions have consequences and if you are an asshole to someone you run the risk of them not taking it to well and something bad might happen due to your actions.
Does his being an asshole justify his murder...NO....but his being an asshole makes me understand why someone MIGHT have done this.



Nawww, get fucking real..... A 78 year old man gives you an attitude and you beat his ass? I think not. I don't know who he was, never met his miserable ass, but it if I had encountered him and he was a prick I'd simply tell him to fuck off and that would have been the end of it. There is nothing just or reasonable about beating a 78 yo individual for any reason other than self defense.
--RR
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:23:59 PM EDT
Big +1 RR. Charles.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:45:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.


We all have been "assholes" to possibly the "wrong person". Does that mean we should expect to be murdered? --RR



Expect to be murdered ??
No, but actions have consequences and if you are an asshole to someone you run the risk of them not taking it to well and something bad might happen due to your actions.
Does his being an asshole justify his murder...NO....but his being an asshole makes me understand why someone MIGHT have done this.



Nawww, get fucking real..... A 78 year old man gives you an attitude and you beat his ass? I think not. I don't know who he was, never met his miserable ass, but it if I had encountered him and he was a prick I'd simply tell him to fuck off and that would have been the end of it. There is nothing just or reasonable about beating a 78 yo individual for any reason other than self defense.
--RR



Do you have a reading comprehension problem ??
Where have I EVER said what was done was either "just" or "reasonable" ??
As you said, you have NEVER met the man so you don't know what he was like. I have met him and I have never met anyone who spoke well of him, that speaks volumes about a man. As for him being 78....so what. Are you saying that there's a certain age where it's acceptable to beat someones ass for getting attitude ? Whats the age range on that ?
AGAIN......All I said was he MIGHT have pissed off the wrong person who beat his ass and those who had the misfortune of knowing him understand that.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:06:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.


We all have been "assholes" to possibly the "wrong person". Does that mean we should expect to be murdered? --RR



Expect to be murdered ??
No, but actions have consequences and if you are an asshole to someone you run the risk of them not taking it to well and something bad might happen due to your actions.
Does his being an asshole justify his murder...NO....but his being an asshole makes me understand why someone MIGHT have done this.



Nawww, get fucking real..... A 78 year old man gives you an attitude and you beat his ass? I think not. I don't know who he was, never met his miserable ass, but it if I had encountered him and he was a prick I'd simply tell him to fuck off and that would have been the end of it. There is nothing just or reasonable about beating a 78 yo individual for any reason other than self defense.
--RR



Do you have a reading comprehension problem ??
Where have I EVER said what was done was either "just" or "reasonable" ??
As you said, you have NEVER met the man so you don't know what he was like. I have met him and I have never met anyone who spoke well of him, that speaks volumes about a man. As for him being 78....so what. Are you saying that there's a certain age where it's acceptable to beat someones ass for getting attitude ? Whats the age range on that ?
AGAIN......All I said was he MIGHT have pissed off the wrong person who beat his ass and those who had the misfortune of knowing him understand that.



Where have I EVER said what was done was either "just" or "reasonable"?

you said it here-
"but his being an asshole makes me understand why someone MIGHT have done this"

No, you seem to have the reading comprehension problem.... --RR
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:27:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.


We all have been "assholes" to possibly the "wrong person". Does that mean we should expect to be murdered? --RR



Expect to be murdered ??
No, but actions have consequences and if you are an asshole to someone you run the risk of them not taking it to well and something bad might happen due to your actions.
Does his being an asshole justify his murder...NO....but his being an asshole makes me understand why someone MIGHT have done this.



Nawww, get fucking real..... A 78 year old man gives you an attitude and you beat his ass? I think not. I don't know who he was, never met his miserable ass, but it if I had encountered him and he was a prick I'd simply tell him to fuck off and that would have been the end of it. There is nothing just or reasonable about beating a 78 yo individual for any reason other than self defense.
--RR



Do you have a reading comprehension problem ??
Where have I EVER said what was done was either "just" or "reasonable" ??
As you said, you have NEVER met the man so you don't know what he was like. I have met him and I have never met anyone who spoke well of him, that speaks volumes about a man. As for him being 78....so what. Are you saying that there's a certain age where it's acceptable to beat someones ass for getting attitude ? Whats the age range on that ?
AGAIN......All I said was he MIGHT have pissed off the wrong person who beat his ass and those who had the misfortune of knowing him understand that.



Where have I EVER said what was done was either "just" or "reasonable"?

you said it here-
"but his being an asshole makes me understand why someone MIGHT have done this"

No, you seem to have the reading comprehension problem.... --RR



Apparently you're reading something into it that's not there.
How about my other questions ?
Awwwwww, never mind.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:38:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 6:40:27 PM EDT by AZ-Dave]
No one has, if i'm not mistaken, ever said "he deserved this" or said "i'm glad it's happened"-----but it is an interesting observation that just about everyone that ever met him, has said they can see how it could happen, and how HIS behavior could play into it.
Another interesting observation is that just about ALL the people that seem so appalled at the thought of no one wanting to hold a candlelight vigil for him NEVER MET HIM
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:49:55 PM EDT
May I never become so much of a miserable old man that no one would want to remember me.

I hope the perp is caught all the same. I met the old man he was well miserable was pretty accurate.

It costs very little to be friendly to those we meet each day whether we like them or not.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 12:34:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 12:36:07 PM EDT by KBaker]

Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
He didn't deserve to die but if you are an asshole to the wrong person it could cost you.


We all have been "assholes" to possibly the "wrong person". Does that mean we should expect to be murdered? --RR

From everything I've seen and heard (and personal experience), he was an asshole to amost EVERYBODY.

People like that should expect to be on the receiving end of a fresh can of whoopass sooner or later.

Having said that, I hope they nail the fucking scum with the can opener.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:17:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-Dave:
No one has, if i'm not mistaken, ever said "he deserved this" or said "i'm glad it's happened"-----but it is an interesting observation that just about everyone that ever met him, has said they can see how it could happen, and how HIS behavior could play into it.
Another interesting observation is that just about ALL the people that seem so appalled at the thought of no one wanting to hold a candlelight vigil for him NEVER MET HIM



I went in there once and I say the same thing, it isn't a surprise that this happened. Is it right? No. But would I go to a vigil, no way. I only went in once, and didn't even have to say anything to realize that what I had read of other people's experiences was right on the money.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:20:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 9:23:59 AM EDT by brandyspaw]
If I may; If he was really that bad, in the way he treated people, how could he have stayed in
business for so long? I ask this because my brother used to live in Arizona and I went on
several trips gun shopping with him over the years. I'm sure I've been in this guys shop as many
times as we scoured Tucson and Phoenix.

The point is there are a lot of buttholes running/working in gun shops (as well as in any other
part of American business) but I have a hard time believing that the guy could have survived
50 years in the gun business if he treated his customer so poorly. Not saying it couldn't
happen but just find it hard to believe.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:45:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 2:05:19 PM EDT by AZ-Dave]
I was told years ago when asking a similar question that he didn't "have" to do anything, money wasn't really an issue, so to speak. It appeared he catered to a small group of contankerous, elitists similar to himself.
I think if you had visited this store---you would have remembered.
We use to use that place as a "right of passage" for new guys to the area at work that wanted to be in our "little gun click"----we would send them there saying "you tell him we sent you, so you get the special treatment and discounts"----they became enlightened
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:11:03 AM EDT
Well, that makes sense-if he really didn't need the business to produce.

I frequent shops here in Colorado that have real dicks working there but they either
have what I need or have great prices or both. I guess I normally suffer through dealing
with rude, demeaning people if get what I need. (if its a means to an end)

So it sounds like he had nothing to offer in terms of good prices or selection and matching
that to his personality would explain a lot of the comments. I just couldn't understand how
someone made a go of a gun business (or any other business) by pissing on his customers.
Thanks for the explanation.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:15:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brandyspaw:
If I may; If he was really that bad, in the way he treated people, how could he have stayed in
business for so long? I ask this because my brother used to live in Arizona and I went on
several trips gun shopping with him over the years. I'm sure I've been in this guys shop as many
times as we scoured Tucson and Phoenix.

The point is there are a lot of buttholes running/working in gun shops (as well as in any other
part of American business) but I have a hard time believing that the guy could have survived
50 years in the gun business if he treated his customer so poorly. Not saying it couldn't
happen but just find it hard to believe.



From what I know he owned the store and the contents outright and didn't need it for income. Just something to do I guess.
If he were in business for the money he would have starved and been gone long ago.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:57:39 PM EDT
i heard he was connected to a crystal meth ring.
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