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Posted: 2/23/2006 1:01:43 PM EDT
I'm a fairly new CCW holder. My question to you that have had yours' longer is what do you do when you are out and carrying and end up some place that does not allow you to carry, for example a place that serves alcohol? I know some states have percentage laws where as long as the place does less than 51% of its business from alcohol sales, you can carry. And for places that just say "No firearms", you can give your business somewhere else if possible. But what if it isn't possible?

I bring the question up as I'm planning a motorcycle ride and some of the places we may end up eating in Bumblefuck, Arizona may only be places that serve alcohol. Now when I have my car, I can lock my gun up, but on my bike, I have my saddle bags and my sissy bar bag.

What do you do? Lock the pistola in the car/bag on the bike? Ignore the law and carry?

I think it is a good law for straight up bars, but come on, if I happen to be at a Denny's that serves beer or a small restaurant or even like a Chili's. I hate thinking of leaving my gun in my car when I may need it. Also, not having it locked in the saddle bag on my bike. Not that people are usually dumb enough to mess with a group of Harleys, but I'd still rather not.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:12:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 1:15:11 PM EDT by Alien]
Don't ask don't tell. Just make sure it's not visible and take extra care not to print.

Better to have and not need than to need and not have. NOTHING will happen to you as long as nobody knows it's there. And if something happens where you need to use your gun, I don't think I need to tell you it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Think about it. Do you ever exceed the speed limit? Do you ever not come to a complete stop at stop signs? Do you ever drive by a school while carrying your gun? None of these things ever hurt anybody.

Just use your head and you'll be fine.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:16:47 PM EDT
That is kind of what I figured. I accidentally carried in a place that I didn't find out served alcohol until after I sat down and ordered. Then I saw the waitress bring over beers to the next table. I got up to "go to the bathroom" and had my brother switch seats to my holster was on the wall side.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:16:30 PM EDT
I carry in restraunts that serve alcohol all the time. If someone notices it and asks me to leave I will comply immediatly. But since my concealed rigs don't print I don't expect to have any problems.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:04:50 PM EDT
SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:59:59 PM EDT
I'm going to have to agree with AzHammer on this one...

LEO read this board too (and many are probably contributing members as well, I'd imagine) and admitting breaking the law doesn't sound so smart.

If you read the back of your CCW, it specifically states "This permit DOES NOT authorize you to carry a weapon into an establishment prohibiting weapons."

As far as gun shops go, though, where there's an "actions open inside store" sign, they* tell me that if you have a CCW, they'd rather you carried loaded and concealed in the store -- something about more armed 'good guys' in case something goes wrong.

DON'T BREAK THE LAW.

-Colin


*they being all of the random shop employees that I've actually talked to about the subject
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 12:02:51 AM EDT
First. I understand that you may enter a business that serves alcohol as long as the MAJORITY of it's business isn't selling alcohol. Chili's, TGI Fridays, or any other restaurant that serves alcohol is ok to CCW in. The majority of their business is not alcohol sales. Although you can CCW in places like these, you are not allowed to consume any alcohol. Not even a little taste!

IIRC, my instructor said you could even CCW in a liquor store since they don't serve alcohol (someone chime in if I am totally wrong).

A bar and strip club are two examples of places you can't CCW in.

Second - carrying in places that don't allow CCW. My instructor said that you may carry in places that don't allow it. This doesn't mean that your CCW permit authorizes it.

Basically, they posted a sign that says they don't like weapons in the store but you come in anyway. You aren't breaking any AZ laws by doing this. If they know you are carrying, they can ask you to leave. At this point, you are required to leave and if you don't you'll be breaking a law (trespassing I think).

Another example would be signs that say that going into a store barefoot and shirtless isn't allowed. People that do it aren't violating any law unless they are asked to leave and then refuse.

Ever since getting my permit, I have been looking for the stickers that "ask" customers not to bring weapons into the store - I have seen very few!

I have two experiences which I think are kind of interesting and may make you feel a little better about carrying (even in places that don't want you to but aren't illegal to carry in). The first was a recent trip to go Valentin's Day shopping. A friend and I walked into Kohls (no sticker asking not to bring weapons inside) carrying openly. Him with an XD9 on his hip and me with my Sig in a 6004 on my leg. A couple of quick glances but nobody was outraged and nobody from the store said anything - we were there for about 45 minutes, bought something and left.

The second was at a Wal-Mart. They had a sticker up but we went in openly carrying anyway expecting someone to ask us to leave. Nobody said anything there either. We were there for about 30 minutes grabbing a few things, checked out and left without incident. (We weren't there to test the waters, we actually needed to pick up some things).

Use your best judgement! If you really aren't supposed to carry there and getting caught carrying there could screw a lot of other CCW permit holder, please don't!

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:25:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BK6:
The second was at a Wal-Mart. They had a sticker up but we went in openly carrying anyway expecting someone to ask us to leave. Nobody said anything there either. We were there for about 30 minutes grabbing a few things, checked out and left without incident. (We weren't there to test the waters, we actually needed to pick up some things).



Report these things to Walmart's corporate office. Their official policy is to respect the laws of the communities they are in, including lawful carrying of arms. Usually, some manager at a particular Walmart decides to put up a sign like that to enforce their personal beliefs. That contradicts with company policy and they will be told to remove the sign.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:35:04 AM EDT
I carry everywhere NO MATTER WHAT! It's really no big deal.

Unless there's a metal detector where I'm going, my gun goes with me. Your gun is alway much safer on YOU than it is getting ripped off from your vehicle anyway.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:09:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 6:10:16 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]

Originally Posted By BK6:
First. I understand that you may enter a business that serves alcohol as long as the MAJORITY of it's business isn't selling alcohol. Chili's, TGI Fridays, or any other restaurant that serves alcohol is ok to CCW in. The majority of their business is not alcohol sales. Although you can CCW in places like these, you are not allowed to consume any alcohol. Not even a little taste!




Sorry, but that's incorrect. It is illegal to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol by the drink, no matter how much they sell. It's stupid but a bill to change that was vetoed by your governor a year or two ago.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:21:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Originally Posted By BK6:
First. I understand that you may enter a business that serves alcohol as long as the MAJORITY of it's business isn't selling alcohol. Chili's, TGI Fridays, or any other restaurant that serves alcohol is ok to CCW in. The majority of their business is not alcohol sales. Although you can CCW in places like these, you are not allowed to consume any alcohol. Not even a little taste!




Sorry, but that's incorrect. It is illegal to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol by the drink, no matter how much they sell. It's stupid but a bill to change that was vetoed by your governor a year or two ago.



Right! If alcohol is consumed on site. CCW is not legal.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:22:09 AM EDT
OK, for those of you that are completely within the law, if you happen to find yourself in at a place that does not allow it, do you feel comfortable leaving it in your car? I have been thinking about buying a small lockbox to mount in the trunk to put my gun in. But that just isn't an option on my bike.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:50:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CiDirkona:
LEO read this board too (and many are probably contributing members as well, I'd imagine) and admitting breaking the law doesn't sound so smart.
DON'T BREAK THE LAW.



A) For places with signs - You missed the sign, naturally. If approached by management and asked to leave, happily do so. If approached by LE and questioned...well, you'd never knowingly violate the law...and since you missed the sign, and since no one approached you and asked you to leave you didn't meet the culpable mental state for prosecution.

B) For places that you should know better (bars, etc) - "You know officer, I just saw the Chili's/Olive Garden/Brokeback Steakhouse commercial and thought I'd check it out...never been here. Didn't know they served alcohol at a family restaurant. The commercial didn't even show alcohol. I'll happily leave." For prosecution to stick, LE has to show you knowingly violated the statute.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:52:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
I carry everywhere NO MATTER WHAT! It's really no big deal.

Unless there's a metal detector where I'm going, my gun goes with me. Your gun is alway much safer on YOU than it is getting ripped off from your vehicle anyway.





+87

AB
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 12:15:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ocorvo:

Originally Posted By CiDirkona:
LEO read this board too (and many are probably contributing members as well, I'd imagine) and admitting breaking the law doesn't sound so smart.
DON'T BREAK THE LAW.



A) For places with signs - You missed the sign, naturally. If approached by management and asked to leave, happily do so. If approached by LE and questioned...well, you'd never knowingly violate the law...and since you missed the sign, and since no one approached you and asked you to leave you didn't meet the culpable mental state for prosecution.

B) For places that you should know better (bars, etc) - "You know officer, I just saw the Chili's/Olive Garden/Brokeback Steakhouse commercial and thought I'd check it out...never been here. Didn't know they served alcohol
at a family restaurant. The commercial didn't even show alcohol. I'll happily leave." For prosecution to stick, LE has to show you knowingly violated the statute.


+1 Thats exactly how a respnsible person should handle these situations.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:26:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CiDirkona:
I'm going to have to agree with AzHammer on this one...

LEO read this board too (and many are probably contributing members as well, I'd imagine) and admitting breaking the law doesn't sound so smart.

If you read the back of your CCW, it specifically states "This permit DOES NOT authorize you to carry a weapon into an establishment prohibiting weapons."

As far as gun shops go, though, where there's an "actions open inside store" sign, they* tell me that if you have a CCW, they'd rather you carried loaded and concealed in the store -- something about more armed 'good guys' in case something goes wrong.

DON'T BREAK THE LAW.

-Colin


*they being all of the random shop employees that I've actually talked to about the subject



The law wouldn't be that way if it wasn't for the fuckstick we call a Governor. It'll likely get passed again at some point in the future and hopefully not vetoed.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:32:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Alien:
The law wouldn't be that way if it wasn't for the fuckstick we call a Governor. It'll likely get passed again at some point in the future and hopefully not vetoed.



I truly don't care if it ever gets passed. It won't impact me in the slightest. I'll still carry where ever I damned well please.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:21:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Originally Posted By BK6:
First. I understand that you may enter a business that serves alcohol as long as the MAJORITY of it's business isn't selling alcohol. Chili's, TGI Fridays, or any other restaurant that serves alcohol is ok to CCW in. The majority of their business is not alcohol sales. Although you can CCW in places like these, you are not allowed to consume any alcohol. Not even a little taste!




Sorry, but that's incorrect. It is illegal to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol by the drink, no matter how much they sell. It's stupid but a bill to change that was vetoed by your governor a year or two ago.



Your right and I am wrong on that. I was under the impression that the law passed. Didn't they have two to choose from?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:34:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BK6:

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Originally Posted By BK6:
First. I understand that you may enter a business that serves alcohol as long as the MAJORITY of it's business isn't selling alcohol. Chili's, TGI Fridays, or any other restaurant that serves alcohol is ok to CCW in. The majority of their business is not alcohol sales. Although you can CCW in places like these, you are not allowed to consume any alcohol. Not even a little taste!




Sorry, but that's incorrect. It is illegal to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol by the drink, no matter how much they sell. It's stupid but a bill to change that was vetoed by your governor a year or two ago.



Your right and I am wrong on that. I was under the impression that the law passed. Didn't they have two to choose from?



I watch this pretty close and I am not aware of any change. If you find something, please post it.

If you are carrying and a cop comes in for lunch and sees you, you will be charged with "misconduct with a firearm". A highly unlikely scenario, but it does happen, I've seen it. If your iron is in the open, this is gonna get you some attention you do not want. This includes the swap meet in Tucson, which is essentially a bar on the premises. A lot of places are considered to be an alcohol serving establishment, and you have to be really careful. If you are wearing your 5.11 gear or your typical photographer vest, you might as well eat with your gun on the table. Think, folks, and be discreet. Sometimes I carry open on my bike. I avoid these places when I do.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:32:47 AM EDT
Do you check all your constitutional rights at any door? You are a free man, you decide. Besides, you already answered your own question.

Packing is about the best example of "Don't ask, don't tell" there has ever been.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:38:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By unforgiven5150:
OK, for those of you that are completely within the law, if you happen to find yourself in at a place that does not allow it, do you feel comfortable leaving it in your car? I have been thinking about buying a small lockbox to mount in the trunk to put my gun in. But that just isn't an option on my bike.




1.) you risk your car getting stolen with the gun in it.

2.) and biggest issue as I see it, it means standing behind your car, pulling your gun out of concealment and in your hand, and then putting it in your trunk. Thats just what you need is someone to see you do this and call the police saying you pulled your gun out in public or something. At the very least you get detained and questioned. Just not a good idea to me to be pulling your gun out in public no matter how well you think you might hide it.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:37:10 PM EDT
Indeed. I knew a guy who trunked his gun at some concert. Evidently someone saw him do so because his gun was gone when he returned.

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