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Posted: 11/22/2003 1:36:41 PM EDT
There was a 17-18ish year old that was spending alot of time shooting a suppressed Rem 700 .308 with a Thundertrap. I saw him get burned badly on the neck and chin by flames and gasses that escaped from some dude's cannon while he was prone on the firing line.

I hope he's okay and received proper medical treatment.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:03:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mylhouse:
There was a 17-18ish year old that was spending alot of time shooting a suppressed Rem 700 .308 with a Thundertrap. I saw him get burned badly on the neck and chin by flames and gasses that escaped from some dude's cannon while he was prone on the firing line.

I hope he's okay and received proper medical treatment.

Whoa!

What time did that happen? Where in the line was he?

Hope he's okay.

Damn.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:53:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 3:57:22 PM EDT
This happened right before 11:00am. The kid was on the blue tarp right in front of the trailer where the TVs and stuff were loaded up on, which was next to the table where all the tannerite was.

That kid was pretty freaking tough, because he didn't even make a peep. His skin was scorched black, indicating to my friend and me 3rd degree burns and necrosis of tissue. Hell, even his cotton tank top was scorched black like someone put a big cigar out on it.

Wish I could have done something, but I came ill-prepared (read: didn't drive, had no supplies, pretty much just came to observe) and I'm not qualified to give 1st aid either.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 4:03:49 PM EDT
Oh shit!

Skin scortched black is third-degree for sure. Unless it was a bunch of powder depositing on the skin.

Did he leave for medical attention?

Link Posted: 11/22/2003 4:10:55 PM EDT
I dunno.

My friend (who drove) had to leave because he was going to be late for work, and this happened right as we were leaving. Last I saw, he was holding a cold can of pop against the burns and was working out his differences with the dude with the camo'd cannon (the kind that shoot those lead-filled pop cans) that burned him.

The guy that made the shot to demolish the copying machine at around 10:40am probably knows who the kid is. The kid was shooting that suppressed 308 a whole lot, and I'm guessing the dude that set off the copying machine was the owner of the 308.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 4:31:51 PM EDT
Dang! We left around that time.

Those stupid cannon cadgets shouldn't be used when there are crowds of that size. I'm all for blowing shit up and all but I do the foolish stuff when I'm away from others.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 9:05:48 PM EDT
Not to minimize anything, any I may be talking out my ass on this one, but if he was holding a cold soda to it, it aint a third degree injury.

Nonetheless, I hope he is ok.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 9:32:33 PM EDT
I didn't see that either. Some guys got hit (me included) from parts when the TV's were blown up. Those were the only minor injuries I saw. But, being a former EMT, I have a full first aid kit in my truck at all times. Hope he's ok. Burns suck!

If it was black and you didn't see flesh hanging or burned away showing blood and burnt skin, it was probably from the powder itself though.....3rd degree has a very nasty smell to it too..He would have been in some serious pain as well...
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 9:44:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 9:50:34 PM EDT by tfod]
It appeared the the cannon owner was using some type of starting fluid for the combustion. It would be like the kid got blasted by a jet engine. It scorched his shirt, and skin burns easier. Thank God it missed his eyes.

The cannoneer did not appear too concerned with having burned the guy, and went to loading up another gun to shoot. I believe it was the shooter who came in the red surplus army truck.

It looked like a third degree burn, if it was he wouldn't know it because he couldn't see it, and would feel it less because of decreased sensation.

http://www.burnsurvivor.com/burn_types_third.html
Third Degree Burns

Third-degree burns affect the epidermis, dermis and hypodermis, causing charring of skin or a translucent white color, with coagulated vessels visible just below the skin surface. These burn areas may be numb, but the person may complain of pain. This pain is usually because of second-degree burns. Healing from third-degree burns is very slow due the skin tissue and structures being destroyed. Third-degree burns usually result in extensive scarring.
Symptoms

Redness
Swelling
Pain
Peeling skin
Shock (pale, clammy skin, weakness, bluish lips and finger nails)
White or charred skin
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:17:42 AM EDT
Damn, I hope the kid is OK.

Several of us discussed going to this shoot last weekend and we concluded that it was just too dangerous, so we didn't go.

Being covered by hot weapons gets old fast. Not to mention close calls with tannerite and bowling balls.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 5:38:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 5:39:07 AM EDT by markm]

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:

Not to mention close calls with tannerite and bowling balls.




Yup. I'm not too comfortable with some of the Loone balls that show up at these things with their "Look at me!" gizmos.

I was hoping to shoot that sweet .308 bolt gun of yours again, however.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:17:27 AM EDT
It wasn't a 3rd degree burn. The black on his neck was burnt powder. I personally cleaned his neck and applied antibiotic ointment. He had a mild 2nd degree burn. Very slight blistering. He will be ok.

I also agree, those "mortars" should have been away from the crowd.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:26:36 AM EDT
Thanks, DeadBob.

That is good news. Sure looked bad though.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:40:55 AM EDT
It did look bad at first to me also. My first thought was a 3rd degree burn.

What bothered me the most was the guy who's mortar caused the injury did nothing to see if the kid was ok. He said sorry and went back to shooting.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 7:54:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DeadBob:
What bothered me the most was the guy who's mortar caused the injury did nothing to see if the kid was ok. He said sorry and went back to shooting.



Yeah, that dude was a real a-hole. When that kid let the guy know what happened (the kid looked like he could have probably taken him, yet showed great restraint), the dude didn't even stop loading his machinegun. He just simply glanced at him and said, "Wow, that's never happened before."
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 10:28:16 AM EDT
OK, Let's set some stuff straight.

The guy with the camo soup can mortar is named Barley Pop. A fixture at most shoots, including the huge MG shoots in northern AZ.

My thought is that there are too many kids running around with no supervision at this last shoot. CG was getting the same way and started to get pretty annoying having nameless teens knocking over my piles of loaded mags.

That's why I only brought my RPD and my Krink yesterday. (Besides, I was sick, and getting sicker)

Now, speaking as someone who nearly dropped a bowling ball from a bowling ball mortar back onto the firing line (damn wind) I gotta say this typical Arfcom "lynch mob" mentality is getting tiresome.

Interesting note: the guy the bowling ball hit closest to, was an ex-Viet Seal who said "well, it didnt hit me so who cares?" when I apologized to him several times.

Everyone else peed their pants. INCLUDING me.

I'll call BP and find out exactly WTF is up.

Be Back soon.

D.
AZEX
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 10:38:32 AM EDT
marking this for interest.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 11:03:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 11:07:19 AM EDT by azexarms]
Just got off the phone with BP.

The fuse blew out of the fuse hole on the soup can mortar, and struck the kid in the neck, he instinctively tucked his chin and held the burning fuse section under his neck.

BP knows the kid, as he's the kid of some close friends, who were set up next to him.

The kid is a tough kid and didnt say anything else about it while BP kept going over and apologizing.

But, such things happen. BP did what he could and turned the base of the mortar around. This was the first time the fuse had blown out during a launch and if it happens again the fuse section will go downrange.

BP, has personally put on many shoots in the last few years out at Jackrabbit Trail. His were the safest ones around. I dont remember anyone getting hurt (except for me) when I was drunk and pulled a thermite flare from the wrong end and burned the shit outta myself.

I guess some other folks on the line where whining that he was throwing brass on their position.

Whaaaa! Get used to it. It's a shoot.

Here's a short list of not so funny stuff that has happened at shoots.

1. At one of my Flagstaff "Pipeline" shoots. I almost put out my own eye shooting a steel plate with exploding .45 rounds and the jacket came back and knocked the lens out of my glasses and split open my nose. OW.

(this moment of genius captured on video)

2. Late at night before one of BPs Jackrabbit Trl shoots, I grabbed the wrong end of a Thermite flare and popped it, scorching the heel of my hand and the underside. Ahh, the smell of one's own roasted flesh.

3. Yes, I nearly dropped a Bowling Ball onto the firing line at CG. I missed. Let it go.

4. At the first Pipeline Shoot, someone was shooting AKs at the pistol plates and a jacket came back and hit another shooter in the shin. Gunplumber dug out the frag with his first aid kit, dressed the wound, and all was well.

5. At another Pipeline Shoot, those damn pistol plates again, claimed Donny, a friend of ours, who had to go to the hospital and get the frag removed from between the radial and ulnar nerves in his forearm. BP was enraged over that one, as we knew who had fired at the pistol plates with a rifle, and then the person who had done it claimed that he did not.

6. Some dorks shooting 50s at one of the SP Crater shoots, had a penetrator come back off of a rockpile near the line and take out the back window on a pickup truck parked near the line.

7. A 30 year C3 dealer and MG collector had an AD which ended his shoot, at SP crater, he was carrying "hammer down on a loaded chamber" in a 1911 and a tarp tie down rope snagged the hammer just enough to let it set the round off.

All who know this guy are universally in agreement that if we had told him "you're gonna get hurt carrying like that someday" he would've told us to get bent. (as he knew what he was doing)


Accidents happen at shoots. Brass flies. You want to be pampered and coddled, go home to Mommy. Keep your wits about you.

Keep in mind that some folks who've been putting on, paying for, and attending these shoots for years get tired of being told that they are not "courteous" enough by N00bS.

So, mylhouse, in summation I would respectfully suggest that before you start a little dogpile, that you 1. Get a few more posts under your belt and attend more than a few shoots and 2. Go talk to the people you have decided to discuss online.

You might actually learn something.

Like you never put lighter fluid in a black powder mortar, where the hell did that come from? Sheesh.

D.
AZEX

(Wow, that was suprisingly calm sounding)

Link Posted: 11/23/2003 12:35:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azexarms:
So, mylhouse, in summation I would respectfully suggest that before you start a little dogpile, that you 1. Get a few more posts under your belt and attend more than a few shoots and 2. Go talk to the people you have decided to discuss online.

You might actually learn something.




D,

I was only relaying to the forum what I witnessed. I don't know who "BP" is, and I know nothing about him, so it is probably wrong of me to say he's an a-hole and to judge him. If I happen to meet BP in person or online and we discuss this, and I find I judged him wrong, then fine, I'll apologize.

If you read through my posts in this thread, you will see that I wasn't trying "to start a dogpile" or lynch anyone. I was simply trying to find out if the kid was okay because I was concerned about his well-being. I wasn't even criticizing the practice of bring mortars or other non-firearm devices to shoots. I thought the injuries were much worse than they really were.

But what the hell does my relative lack of posts here or what you think to be my lack of experience at "shoots" have to do with anything? Am I not worthy of voicing my opinion because I'm not cool enough to be in your clique? You don't know jack shit about me. In summation, if your contention is that I'm just some NOOB that shouldn't have a say because I don't spend all day online or because I don't have a cache of Title II weapons, then you can go eat a dick.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 1:24:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 1:31:47 PM EDT by TREETOP]
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