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Posted: 9/22/2003 11:56:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2003 11:17:51 PM EDT by Steve_]
I have reserved the Casa Grande range from 6:00am to 6:00pm on Saturday Novermber 1, 2003. Here are the rules sent to me by the City of Casa Grande:

1. There shall be no sale of any kind of goods in the park without prior approval from the Director of the department and any business authorization required by the City has been obtained.

2. The area reserved shall be left in an orderly condition and that all papers, rubbish, and other debris shall be deposited in the proper receptacles for this purpose.

3. No fires shall be made in the park except in designated fire places or fire rings as approved by the Parks and Recreation Department.

4. There shall be no cutting of any vegetation or mutilation of trees or shrubs.

5. Structures causing damage to turf area are prohibited. Autos, trucks, vans, or other motorized vehicles may not be driven on or parked upon any off-the-road area.

6. There shall be no amplified music without prior approval from the Parks and Recreation Director.

7. No glass beverage containers allowed in any city park. PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL TRASH MUST BE PICKED UP.

8. Alcohol and/or drugs are prohibited at the Rifle Range Facility.

FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE ABOVE RULES WILL CAUSE THE ORGANIZATION AND/OR PERSONS IN CHARGE TO BE SUBJECTED TO THE LOSS OF THEIR RIGHT TO RESERVE THE USE OF THE PARK IN THE FUTURE.

In addition to the above rules issued by the city, please observe the following:

9. There will be a cease-fire called at the top of every hour and 30 minuets after every hour (i.e. 7:00, 7:30, 8:00...). The cease-fire will persist for 5 minuets or longer as necessary. There will be NO handling of firearms during a cease-fire.

10. There will be NO parking of vehicles within 10 feet of the shooting line.

11. Use of Tannerite and .50 cal rifles will not be allowed at the range.

12. There will be NO MEDIA at this event. If any media decides to show up they will be asked to leave and please do not speak to them or answer any questions. We got bit once, were not going to let it happen again.

And of course use simple common sense. Everyone was very safe last time and I'm sure this shoot will be the same. If you plan on bringing children they need to be supervised at all times, a rifle range is the last place we need kids running around unattened.

Once again we will be having porta pottys delivered. The cost of this is $70. We will be taking donations towards the porta pottys the day of the shoot. Any money collected above the cost of the porta pottys will be donated to Casa Grande Parks and Rec dept for letting us use the range.

Also I'm looking for a couple of people with loud voices to patrol the range for the day (call cease-fires, head the safety meeting, kick anyones ass that breaks the rules...), if anyone would like to volunteer please e-mail me. If anyone is interested in conducting any business at the shoot (as in sale or rental of any goods) please contact me prior to the shoot.


The directions are as follows:

1. Coming from either Phoenix or Tucson, take Interstate 10 to Interstate 8 westbound.

2. Take the Trekkel road exit, and head south.

3. The road will split at Arica Road East, towards Casa Grande Mountain. (The range is at the base.) Take Arica.

4. Arica will turn south. You will see a fenced in Range (Casa Grande P.D. -private) and the public range.


Steve

Edited to add rule #8

Link Posted: 9/23/2003 12:45:05 AM EDT
I suggest we have an impromptu swap meet. I'm sure those of us who are NOT in a "firearm related" business probably have some crap they want to get rid of...Holsters, mags, bandoleers, ammo cans, etc..No sale of guns and no commercial sales of bulk items... (Like some FFL can't bring 50 lower receivers for sale and set up shop)...But just have a table or 2 and those with stuff to sell stand by their stuff until it sells or they take it off the table.

Anyway, I'll be there..I'll bring the 2 way radio's and a bullhorn I recently acquired...

Link Posted: 9/23/2003 11:03:15 AM EDT
DOh! That's my mom's birthday!

I'll still make it though


Bringing sun-screen is a wise idea too. Last shoot I went to, I was turned into a lobster.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 4:43:37 PM EDT
Sorry, that is drill weekend for me....
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 8:02:55 PM EDT
so far so good. My dad can make it with me this time. And I just shot off a e-mail to my grandpa and hopefully he can make it also.

Not new shooters but they have never been to a ar15.com shoot.

So any word on If we can bring Tannerite?
Always wanted to try that.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 9:01:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

So any word on If we can bring Tannerite?
Always wanted to try that.



Sorry, we got the results from the noise testing and tannerite will not be allowed.

Steve

Link Posted: 9/23/2003 9:50:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2003 9:59:26 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Steve_:

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
So any word on If we can bring Tannerite?
Always wanted to try that.

Sorry, we got the results from the noise testing and tannerite will not be allowed.

10. Based on the results of noise testing from the previos shoot, use Tannerite and .50 cal rifles will not be allowed at the range.

Steve

What the HAYELL!??

They said they were only pulling about maybe 50ish dB and that was ON-SITE!!

The guy doing the recording said it was barely registering!

Do you have the actual DATA?

Sounds like they just don't want any "scary boom noises" at all and this "noise testing" was all just a bunch of BS to give them an excuse to ban it.


Am I way off on this or were others there who also heard the guy doing the recording saying it was barely registering? I coulda sworn he said it was peaking at like 50-60 dBs.



Link Posted: 9/23/2003 11:47:56 PM EDT
oops didnt see number 10.

Link Posted: 9/24/2003 12:02:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2003 12:16:28 AM EDT by Steve_]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Do you have the actual DATA?

Am I way off on this or were others there who also heard the guy doing the recording saying it was barely registering? I coulda sworn he said it was peaking at like 50-60 dBs.




No, I do not have the actual DATA, and no I am not certain of the exact dB levels that were recorded, or what specificly was allowable from certain areas. I tried everything in my power and even requested that an exception be made for the date of the shoot. This is the choice they have made and there doesn't appear to be anything else we can do about it. If you are interested I can attempt to get a copy of the official noise testing results from the City and either e-mail them to you or post them on the boards.

Steve

Link Posted: 9/24/2003 12:09:27 AM EDT
My wife and I will be there.
Hey, it's our anniversary, what better way to spend it!
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 7:48:43 AM EDT
I'll be there.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 11:24:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Steve_:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Do you have the actual DATA?

Am I way off on this or were others there who also heard the guy doing the recording saying it was barely registering? I coulda sworn he said it was peaking at like 50-60 dBs.




No, I do not have the actual DATA, and no I am not certain of the exact dB levels that were recorded, or what specificly was allowable from certain areas. I tried everything in my power and even requested that an exception be made for the date of the shoot. This is the choice they have made and there doesn't appear to be anything else we can do about it. If you are interested I can attempt to get a copy of the official noise testing results from the City and either e-mail them to you or post them on the boards.

Steve



Yes, please post the info. This is bullshit fellas. Next they will say "no rapid fire, no steel core ammo",,,,,,Etc.

Wont be there if they dont allow the 50.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 7:26:15 PM EDT
This is bullshit. I just bought a new Armalite AR-50 and was looking forward to bringing it to the next shoot. Then what, no 8MM, no NFA, no cannonball mortars? The infringement has started... Have a good time at the shoot...
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 7:42:19 PM EDT
What if the guys with the .50's didn't shoot under the awning? The noise would drop drastically...See if they will compromise. And what if the tannerite had to be out 300 yards?

We gotta blow something up!

What if the CGPD Bomb Squad joined us?
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 8:50:41 PM EDT

Just curious, how much money have we donated to the CG Parks & Rec dept. over the last year or so?

I don't think we should give them a dime anymore. I'll pitch in for the portajohn, but I don't want my donation going to those folks anymore.

Still

Link Posted: 9/24/2003 11:33:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Just curious, how much money have we donated to the CG Parks & Rec dept. over the last year or so?





We have donated somewhere around $300 to the CG Parks and Rec dept. this year.

Steve

Link Posted: 9/24/2003 11:47:29 PM EDT
I understand that many of you are upset about the fact that we may no longer use tannerite or .50 cal's at the Casa Grande range, but please realize that I am not the one who made this decision. The City made the decision, and I tried everything I could to get tannerite and .50 cal's allowed but it is not going to be possible at this site.

The City of Casa Grande allows us exclusive use of their range at no charge for our events, and if we want to use their facility we need to follow their rules. If you guys would prefer not to use their range than put up some suggestions of other places to have the shoots. I would be more than willing to organize the shoots at a different location if that is what you guys want.

Steve

Link Posted: 9/25/2003 1:18:21 AM EDT
Thats too bad, my local range would LOVE the potential money created by such a shoot. Too bad I live in BFE.

Perhaps a new location should be scouted for future shoots? Someone once mentioned a range in Florence that could be used?
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 9:51:30 AM EDT
Steve, I don't think anyone is mad at you in the least. We appreciate you working with the CG P&R folks to get this to happen. The tannerite is kind of scarry stuff, but production rifle in 50 BMG? I want to buy one in the spring and was hoping to see a couple at the shoot, but if the are not allowed then one of my reasons to attend has evaporated (and why should I get a 50 anyway if I have no place to shot it?)

I hope someone can speak to the CG people to see if they can reverse the ban on 50 BMG rifles before the Nov 1 shoot. Jeez, who is out there that would really care? I would have thought they would curtail the full-auto stuff first (or will that be in 2004?)

What is wrong with 50 BMG anyway? If they say it erodes the berms faster, then they can bring the front end loader in and pile it back up with some of the $300 that we gave them. I cannot believe that the noise is an issue unless they sold some residential property and the developer is working on closing the range.

Most of us come from Phoenix area or Tucson area and it is a nice gathering. We need to challenge this "no 50's" ruling to save the camaraderie. Can someone tell me whom to contact in CG (with phone number, or address, or e-mail) to challenge this? Perhaps a few calm, logical requests will make them reconsider this ruling.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 10:48:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BillSP1:
Steve, I don't think anyone is mad at you in the least. We appreciate you working with the CG P&R folks to get this to happen.

Absolutely!!

The time and effort you put into these shoots is VERY well appreciated! I hope you don't think we're upset at you or blame you for it.




Originally Posted By BillSP1:
Can someone tell me whom to contact in CG (with phone number, or address, or e-mail) to challenge this? Perhaps a few calm, logical requests will make them reconsider this ruling.

Post it here and maybe we can get even more folks to politely ask them to reconsider their decision.

Link Posted: 9/25/2003 10:59:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 1:23:25 PM EDT
I'll be there.

I really enjoyed the cannonball mortar, but they need to resign themselves to the loss of the projectile and set the elevation at something lower than 90º. That was the problem the last time. Chuck the ball out into the hills and it's fine.

The .50 restriction does need to be questioned IMHO, but I wouldn't hold my breath. And I really wouldn't hold my breath on the Tannerite question.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 2:26:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2003 7:24:55 PM EDT by BillSP1]
The bowling ball cannon (like any 'weapon') must be fired in a safe direction <DUH!>

Tannerite explosions are cool, but how safe is it? I don't know and an unqualified to say.

But 50 BMG rifles are no more dangerous than a 308 for what we are doing at the range. I mean we point them down range and the bullet goes out there a couple hundred yards and lands in the dirt. Hopefully it hits the piece of paper or bowling pin where we want it, but it still lands in the dirt "out there". Convince me otherwise if you can.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 2:36:19 PM EDT
Cool. I hope the bowling ball fire team has been taking trajectory lessons.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 2:42:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By az-ar:
DOh! That's my mom's birthday!

I'll still make it though


Bringing sun-screen is a wise idea too. Last shoot I went to, I was turned into a lobster.



... Hey! It's not my fault. I offered you some sunscreen.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 3:00:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 3:02:08 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By BillSP1:
But 50 BMG rifles are no more dangerous than a 308 for what we are doing at the range. I mean we point them down range and the bullet goes out there a couple hundred yards and lands in the dirt. Hopefully it hits the piece of paper or bowling pin where we want it, but it still lands in the dirt "out there". Convince me otherwise if you can.

They're prolly just afraid it'll ricochet and someone'll end up accidentally shoot down a 747 flying overhead (at 30,000 ft).

Link Posted: 9/25/2003 6:59:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By az-ar:
DOh! That's my mom's birthday!

I'll still make it though


Bringing sun-screen is a wise idea too. Last shoot I went to, I was turned into a lobster.



... Hey! It's not my fault. I offered you some sunscreen.




Doh!
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 7:04:23 PM EDT
Forgot to mention, anyone up for shooting clay pigeons with me? Really fun with a tac shotgun!

I just have a hand thrower, but if anyone else has a throwing machine, feel free to bring it. I'll stock up on Wally world clays.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 8:22:36 PM EDT
Sorry Steve, my rant was in no way directed at you. I have been enjoying the shoots for the last couple of years and hate to see the restrictions starting. It would be nice if we could get an arrangement to include the .50's again, maybe keep them out from under the awning and put a time limit like 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.?? Try not to wake up the locals too early...
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 8:32:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:

Originally Posted By FBArms:
no cannonball mortars?



Actually I would go along with that, seeing as last time one fell not 30 feet in front of the firing line.

Count me out if there is any unsafe shit like that going on.



Roger That !!!

Jay
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 1:26:06 AM EDT
Don't quote me on this, but as far as I am aware the restriction on .50's is because of the noise, not because of saftey or concerns about wear on the range. I am going to attempt to meet with the Casa Grande Parks and Rec Director tomarrow to discuss the issue concerning the .50's and also attempt to get the noise testing data from the last shoot.

Steve

Link Posted: 9/26/2003 1:30:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By az-ar:
Forgot to mention, anyone up for shooting clay pigeons with me? Really fun with a tac shotgun!

I just have a hand thrower, but if anyone else has a throwing machine, feel free to bring it. I'll stock up on Wally world clays.



Definently up for some clays. We'll see if my thrower still works, it's seen better days but I think it'll make it through one more shoot. If not we'll throw them by hand.

Steve

Link Posted: 9/26/2003 7:16:21 AM EDT
Maybe we need to plan another Superstitions tannerite shoot!
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 6:40:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By az-ar:
Forgot to mention, anyone up for shooting clay pigeons with me? Really fun with a tac shotgun!

I just have a hand thrower, but if anyone else has a throwing machine, feel free to bring it. I'll stock up on Wally world clays.

I'll join you, but do you mind if I use my 1917 Enfield instead? (I'm completely serious!)
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 7:22:01 PM EDT
Anything's fine with me. As long as I get to kill some clays
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 10:48:31 PM EDT
My wife and I enjoy bustin' clays. We'll bring a couple of boxes and our thrower.
Link Posted: 9/27/2003 12:37:00 AM EDT
This sounds like a great time I was at the C.G. shoot with the Bowling Ball mortar. Shooting clays with the tactical shotgun sounds fun. I also got a FN 49 to try out.
Maybe I can get my dad to come out, seeing as he will be down for the winter.
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 8:47:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Maybe we need to plan another Superstitions tannerite shoot!



I would LOVE that! I would love to go to the CG shoot. But in my eyes it would be lacking with no .50's and Tannerite. On the tannerite safty issue. It is safe if done at least 100 yards. Also im sure its not advised to tape old nail's, screws, washers, b.b's, ect to the outside of the bottle. I dont think tho that a stuffed teddy bear is going to cause deadly Shrapnel.

I would like to attend the CG shoot. So I as well would like to call the city people.

As for the relocation of the shoot. We live in AZ there has to be someplace else to go. I do know of some places. The only thing they are 150 miles east of the PHX area. Oh well I guess Ill just have to have my own private Tannerite shoot

Sorry for the long post, just my 2 cents worth.
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 6:18:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KBaker:

Originally Posted By az-ar:
Forgot to mention, anyone up for shooting clay pigeons with me? Really fun with a tac shotgun!

I just have a hand thrower, but if anyone else has a throwing machine, feel free to bring it. I'll stock up on Wally world clays.

I'll join you, but do you mind if I use my 1917 Enfield instead? (I'm completely serious!)



No really, he is serious.


Link Posted: 10/5/2003 3:15:57 PM EDT

Seems Nov. 1st is a popular day for discussion-board get-togethers.


From The High Road:
Phoenix area THR members, get together is a go!
The date is Saturday, November 1 at 9 a.m. In addition to this announcement, I have sent a PM to all that responded to the original post. The get together will be at the Rio Salado range in east Mesa. The address is 3960 N. Usery Pass Rd. Blades67, the Rio Salado member, needs to know how many of you plan to be there so he can make arrangements. Please PM or email me with your rsvp. See you there, Mike


Link Posted: 10/5/2003 8:18:19 PM EDT
I'm considering moving the shoot to one week later (Nov. 8) due to the fact of Halloween being the night before and some people will be up late with family and also the post above concerning the Phoenix area THR memebers get together. Let me know what you guys think.

Steve



Link Posted: 10/6/2003 4:43:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2003 4:45:41 PM EDT by Biggame223]
11/1 is best for me, but my main concern is for the C3/2 shooters who bring the fun to shoot and watch stuff. Is there a gunshow that weekend 11/8 that might interfere
?
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 5:37:52 PM EDT
I like Nov. 1, 2003. If you do move the date can you move it to a Tannerite friendly location?

Or can we get a phone # to call the leaders of CG to voice our thoughts?
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 7:54:53 AM EDT
I still like 11/1.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 8:32:25 AM EDT
November 2003 Gun Shows

1-2 Termark
Pima Count Fairgrounds, Tucson

15-16 Termark
State Fairgrounds, Phoenix
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 4:12:58 PM EDT
11/1/03 is better for me than 11/08/03. Since we are going to safford. Ill be having my own Tannerite shoot that weekend.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 6:17:42 PM EDT
Tagged ans subscribed. I be there if I can, and am recovered from Gunstock.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 11:12:47 PM EDT
As for now we are going to stay with the 1st of November. The range will not be available for the 8th, and on the 15th there is a gunshow, so I think the 1st will work the best. Also I think Winston and the DMGC might be planning something for late November at a different location (involing tannerite and .50's).

I visited the Parks and Rec director yesterday to discuss some issues with the range and with our shoot. First of all there is no chance of us being able to use .50's or tannerite. This issue was addressed at last months City Council meeting and their decision is final. There is nothing more I can do to fight for this issue. I know I'm going to get a bunch of replys about what BS this is, and I'm not saying it isn't BS, but instead of complaining about something we can't change, make suggestions of other locations we could use. I am willing to organize events at a different location if that is what you guys want. I know several of you are interested in voicing your opinions to the City. I was specificly asked not to post the e-mail address of the Director of the Parks and Rec because she does not want floods of e-mail concerning an issue she can not change, but if you would still like to contact her you may either send an e-mail to myself which I will foward to her, or you can attempt to locate her contact information on the City of Casa Grande website.

During the summer shoot we began shooting around sunrise and quit about lunch to meet up at a resturaunt in Casa Grande. Would you guys like to quit around noon or 1pm and meet for lunch somewhere again or would you prefer this to be an all day shoot?

There was also one additional rule approved at the City Council meeting and that is:

Alcohol and/or drugs are prohibited at the Rifle Range Facility.

The reasoning behind this one should be self explanatory. I know some of you guys like to have a couple of beers after shooting, and personally I don't mind that, but this rule set by the City and we are going to have to abide by it if we would like to use their facility.


Steve


Link Posted: 10/8/2003 4:33:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Steve_:

... Also I think Winston and the DMGC might be planning something for late November at a different location (involing Tannerite and .50's).




... Yes we are! More details to come soon.




Alcohol and/or drugs are prohibited at the Rifle Range Facility.

Steve




... I don't think that was ever an issue in CG. After all, it is a public range. Conversely, when we organize those meets at Afghanistan, they are private outings.

... Personally, I don't have a problem with anyone responsible having a few beers after their shooting is over.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 1:27:19 PM EDT
Either place is fine with me.
Nov. 1 will be the last shoot I can attend till the end of Dec., I will be out of town for 8 weeks after the 11/1 shoot.
SO I'M DARN WELL GONNA LIVE IT UP!
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 2:13:00 PM EDT
Steve,
Thanks for going to bat for us on the "50 BMG Prohibition" at CG range. It sounds like they have decided and will not be swayed by logic or reasoning. You are right, no use in us bitching and maoning about it in this link.

I will try to make the Nov 1 shoot. My M1 Garrand is needing a workout and there is dust on a couple of the AR's as well, and all that ammo just sitting around getting old, tisk, tisk.

Winston Wolf, ole buddy ole Pal, let me know if I can get myself invited to that 50 BMG bash!


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