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Posted: 8/2/2003 8:49:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:13:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 9:58:24 AM EDT by Winston_Wolf]
... You'd better delete this thread before The_Macallan gets home!
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:29:58 PM EDT
I see he used a self portrait for his avatar. Fits for the post.
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 12:48:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... You'd better delete this thread before The_Macallan gets home!


Too late

Last time I commented on this topic - the thread got locked and my IM Mail button turned red.

I'll pass.

THIS time.
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 1:21:43 AM EDT
Thank God they didnt name a highway after her!

Yeah, I know.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 10:57:21 PM EDT
Unreal PC crap!

BAH!

D.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 5:25:40 PM EDT
I read up to this point

Johnson: “I felt it more than I heard it. We weren’t sure what it was until Hernandez took a look back and saw what it was.”
Phillips: “Did you know who was in that vehicle?”
Johnson: “Yes. I knew Lori was driving, First Sergeant, and Lynch was in the vehicle. I didn’t know anybody else.”
Private First Class Lori Piestewa was driving the humvee when she lost control after an explosion. In the back seat was her best friend in the unit, Jessica Lynch.
Johnson: “There was no movement whatsoever.”
Phillips: “Do you remember what you thought when you saw that?”
Johnson: “Heartbreak ‘cause there, you just knew that they were all gone. But we had to keep going.
Captain King, with five of his soldiers, made it through the gauntlet of Iraqis and raced out of town to find help. The Marines they had passed going into An Nasiriya were still there. They immediately made their way up the highway and rescued 10 members of the 507th who were stranded near their disabled vehicles and under fire. But the Marines could not rescue all of them.


Having read that, I have a couple of questions for ya. Where the fuck where you? What the fuck would you do, if in a HWMMMV and came under fire? Would you leave them behind, like the remainder of them did? What exactly is the problem with them? Is is because they are women? Because they arent SF? Or is it because you werent there?

Carry on.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 6:24:43 PM EDT
It's just the way our governor went about making her into a hero, regardless of the facts, and naming a peak and highway after her. Why is she the only native american who died in harms way that is worthy of the honor?
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:36:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 9:38:09 PM EDT by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
It's just the way our governor went about making her into a hero, regardless of the facts, and naming a peak and highway after her. Why is she the only native american who died in harms way that is worthy of the honor?


She aint, but you gotta start somewhere, right?

We all know that a large percentage of the job (Gov.) is public relations bullshit. This is no different, I just dont get all the crying over it. Yeah, there are plenty of MORE deserving persons who gave their lives for us, but it's all relative, and very subjective. My choice, probably wont be your choice. Obviously, the governors choice isnt either of ours, BUT....I would submit the Lori Piestewa (sp?) gave her life for our country, and has two children who will now grow up without their mother, on a reservation. She volunteered for our great army, and wound up losing her life for it. That alone is enough to name any previously "unnamed" freeways, mountains, drainage ditches, washes, holes, after her, at least in my book.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 7:34:28 AM EDT
How long have you been working for the Democratic National Committee?
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 1:32:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
How long have you been working for the Democratic National Committee?


Ah comon, you can do better than that, cant ya?
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 1:42:28 PM EDT
She was an AMERICAN soldier, serving and defending her country, who came under fire.
The quote i saw was that the hummer was hit with an RPG or mortar round just prior to the accident. Its so easy to play armchair quarterback, id like to see you react to a mortar round hitting your vehicle .
It wasnt Lori's idea to name the peak after her, and as a vet, im insulted that youd insult an American soldier who died in the line of duty. i dont think its fair you criticize her for a ploitical decision that was made.Have you served?
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 2:08:59 PM EDT
Ok, I should have taken WW's advice and deleted this thread but I'm in deep now.

Am I insulting her for being a single mom that left two young children to serve in our volunteer Army? Yes.

Am I insulting our governor for using her power to rename a peak by making up PC BS that the word squaw is insulting? Yes.

Am I insulting Piestewa's bravery under fire? No.

Is my title to this thread facetious? Yes
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 9:16:40 PM EDT
As corrupted with social experimentation and PC altrusim as our military has become, I find it kinda funny that people still chest beat and wrap themnselves in the flag over any criticism of it.

I'm as much a patriot and supporter of this War and for that matter any real war as any American should be.

But anyone who's looked at what is happening and continues to happen to it, at the hands of the "progressives" and social engineers, Leftists all, would do themselves better to extend that courtesy that they supposedly served for, the Right to disagree.

It's been my personal experience that the guys who are the first to yell "did you serve? huh? coward! were usually peeling spuds while the real trigger pullers are very subdued, low-key and soft-spoken. They have nothing to prove and are more than willing to let another person talk themselves into looking stupid.

This is of coure MHO, having never served because I couldn't do what I wanted to, which was be a WO, rotary pilot, because of poor eyesight.
D.

Link Posted: 8/10/2003 8:39:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
She volunteered for our great army, and wound up losing her life for it. That alone is enough to name any previously "unnamed" freeways, mountains, drainage ditches, washes, holes, after her, at least in my book.



You think our Dyke Gov gives a shit about THESE Arizonans???

* Marine Sgt. Fernando Padilla-Ramirez, 26, San Luis, Ariz., March 28, 2003, Engaged in operations March 28 in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Remains identified on April 10.

* Marine Lance Cpl. Michael J. Williams, 31, Yuma, Ariz., March 23, 2003, Killed in action on the outskirts of Nasiriyah.

* Army Staff Sgt. William T. Latham, 29, of Kingman, Ariz., May 19, 2003, Died at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, in Washington, D.C., of shrapnel wounds suffered during a raid at a suspected arms market in Ar Ramadi, Iraq.

* Navy Lt. Nathan D. White, 30, Mesa, Ariz., April 2, 2003, Pilot of F/A-18C Hornet lost over Iraq.


No. She doesn't. Because she's a fucking Indian Ass-kissing racist who'd rather piss on the grave of these brave fighting soldiers who put themselves on the front line rather than say "no, it's too early to rename mountains after a dead Indian woman - let's wait five years or so. The mountain will still be there."

But no.

Well I for one will never call that mountain or freeway anything other than "squaw peak".



Link Posted: 8/11/2003 9:23:38 AM EDT
I just thought it was ridiculous that somehow THAT freeway, which had been called "squaw" had to be named for a particular "squaw".

Lori really wasn't full blood Hopi, but a meximix. Close enough for the politically aspirant!

Grrr. D.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 2:45:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
She volunteered for our great army, and wound up losing her life for it. That alone is enough to name any previously "unnamed" freeways, mountains, drainage ditches, washes, holes, after her, at least in my book.



You think our Dyke Gov gives a shit about THESE Arizonans???

* Marine Sgt. Fernando Padilla-Ramirez, 26, San Luis, Ariz., March 28, 2003, Engaged in operations March 28 in the vicinity of Nasiriyah. Remains identified on April 10.

* Marine Lance Cpl. Michael J. Williams, 31, Yuma, Ariz., March 23, 2003, Killed in action on the outskirts of Nasiriyah.

* Army Staff Sgt. William T. Latham, 29, of Kingman, Ariz., May 19, 2003, Died at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, in Washington, D.C., of shrapnel wounds suffered during a raid at a suspected arms market in Ar Ramadi, Iraq.

* Navy Lt. Nathan D. White, 30, Mesa, Ariz., April 2, 2003, Pilot of F/A-18C Hornet lost over Iraq.


No. She doesn't. Because she's a fucking Indian Ass-kissing racist who'd rather piss on the grave of these brave fighting soldiers who put themselves on the front line rather than say "no, it's too early to rename mountains after a dead Indian woman - let's wait five years or so. The mountain will still be there."

But no.

Well I for one will never call that mountain or freeway anything other than "squaw peak".





I dont recall ever posting my thoughts on what the governor thinks, only that she (like MOST polishitans) is taking advantage of the public relations "boost" the Piestewa/Lynch thingy caused. Since you asked, I would have to say no, she doesnt give a shit about them, just like she doesnt give a shit about Lori. Like I said, it was a PR boost. I guess one could stretch it and say she might have felt something because they share gender, but like I said, it'd be a hell of a stretch.

Two of those men you mentioned were from my neck of the desert. I too, feel the pain in their loss.....

I can see your point, but... she died in COMBAT too. What angers you more, the fact that Lori was a woman, or that the gov renamed the mountain/freeway without the necessary wait? Surely, you dont dispute that she died in combat, do you?

What exactly is the "front line"? Each of those soldiers went over there, and spent time under direct fucking fire. I would call that the front line! They all died in combat, and I think most folks might agree. So,,,, it boils down to what, gender? Or should we re-name freeways in order of death?

I just dont get it. If we replace the name Piestewa with White, would you feel the same?

After its all said and done, I dont think naming a freeway is that big of an honor anyway, I would like to think that there are better things we can do...
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:19:50 AM EDT
I'm with The_Macallan!
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 2:25:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gadsen:
As corrupted with social experimentation and PC altrusim as our military has become, I find it kinda funny that people still chest beat and wrap themnselves in the flag over any criticism of it.

I'm as much a patriot and supporter of this War and for that matter any real war as any American should be.

But anyone who's looked at what is happening and continues to happen to it, at the hands of the "progressives" and social engineers, Leftists all, would do themselves better to extend that courtesy that they supposedly served for, the Right to disagree.

It's been my personal experience that the guys who are the first to yell "did you serve? huh? coward! were usually peeling spuds while the real trigger pullers are very subdued, low-key and soft-spoken. They have nothing to prove and are more than willing to let another person talk themselves into looking stupid.

This is of coure MHO, having never served because I couldn't do what I wanted to, which was be a WO, rotary pilot, because of poor eyesight.
D.



Derek, InnocentBystander started this thread with the title " Our peak is named after a bad woman driver"
i answered with the intent for sticking up for someone who doesn't have the ability to do for herself since she died in combat.
now since I spoke up, rather than keep quiet, you are calling me a spud peeler.
I'm not going to get in a pissing match about my time I spent serving this great country.
But I find it laughable that anyone who tries to defend a fallen soldier, must be a spud peeler.
let me say my friend, our military is full of many people in many occupations, and spud peelers are included (cooks?)
Without our vast support channels, wars wouldn't be won, or even fought.
case in point, this last war in Iraq.
This last war was won with logistics, these supply personnel had to keep the grunts, tankers etc fed fueled and full of bullets to succeed.
I would never belittle support personnel because I understand the need for cooks, admin, POL, supply personnel etc.
And maybe I didn't get my point across, I don't support what our governor did, but I do honor Lori Piestewa , and don't appreciate making a joke of a fallen soldier.
you can call me a "spud peeler" or whatever you think is full of wit, I don't care.I served, I'm proud I did, and I honor our fallen soldiers who have given their lives so that we may live free.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 2:32:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
What angers you more, the fact that Lori was a woman, or that the gov renamed the mountain/freeway without the necessary wait?

The latter.



Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Surely, you dont dispute that she died in combat, do you?

No. But the others' mentioned had all intentions of engaging the enemy in combat, she didn't. Maintainance is not supposed to come under fire anymore than a rear hospital is. She did die in a combat situation and with honor in serving her country. But so did the nameless others who will be forgotten in five years by nearly all State officials.

Walk up to the Gov and ask her if she knows who "Lori Piestewa" is. Then ask her if she knows who Nathan White or Fernando Padilla-Ramirez is.


Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
I just dont get it. If we replace the name Piestewa with White, would you feel the same?

Frankly, I don't think the mountain should be renamed after ANY of them. Nor the freeway.

Link Posted: 8/12/2003 6:01:50 PM EDT
Well I certainly admire you for not being one of the "I was a high-speed yada yada yada (insert BS titles and warrior accomplishments here) ninja uber-tactical whatever."

I agree with some of your points, but the fact was that she WAS a bad driver.

We are handing out medals like candy and one only has to explore the Heroes of the past to appreciate what a lack of same we have in today's PC world.

D.



Originally Posted By EX11B:

Originally Posted By Gadsen:
As corrupted with social experimentation and PC altrusim as our military has become, I find it kinda funny that people still chest beat and wrap themnselves in the flag over any criticism of it.

I'm as much a patriot and supporter of this War and for that matter any real war as any American should be.

But anyone who's looked at what is happening and continues to happen to it, at the hands of the "progressives" and social engineers, Leftists all, would do themselves better to extend that courtesy that they supposedly served for, the Right to disagree.

It's been my personal experience that the guys who are the first to yell "did you serve? huh? coward! were usually peeling spuds while the real trigger pullers are very subdued, low-key and soft-spoken. They have nothing to prove and are more than willing to let another person talk themselves into looking stupid.

This is of coure MHO, having never served because I couldn't do what I wanted to, which was be a WO, rotary pilot, because of poor eyesight.
D.



Derek, InnocentBystander started this thread with the title " Our peak is named after a bad woman driver"
i answered with the intent for sticking up for someone who doesn't have the ability to do for herself since she died in combat.
now since I spoke up, rather than keep quiet, you are calling me a spud peeler.
I'm not going to get in a pissing match about my time I spent serving this great country.
But I find it laughable that anyone who tries to defend a fallen soldier, must be a spud peeler.
let me say my friend, our military is full of many people in many occupations, and spud peelers are included (cooks?)
Without our vast support channels, wars wouldn't be won, or even fought.
case in point, this last war in Iraq.
This last war was won with logistics, these supply personnel had to keep the grunts, tankers etc fed fueled and full of bullets to succeed.
I would never belittle support personnel because I understand the need for cooks, admin, POL, supply personnel etc.
And maybe I didn't get my point across, I don't support what our governor did, but I do honor Lori Piestewa , and don't appreciate making a joke of a fallen soldier.
you can call me a "spud peeler" or whatever you think is full of wit, I don't care.I served, I'm proud I did, and I honor our fallen soldiers who have given their lives so that we may live free.

Link Posted: 8/12/2003 7:51:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2003 7:53:17 PM EDT by EX11B]
Derek, i suggest you read what actualy happened that day. Eyewitnesses testified that her Hummer was hit by either an RPG or mortar which caused the crash.
And as far as awards being handed out like candy, i think being killed in a fierce firefight , being surrouned by hostiles, and dying in the process warrants a bronze star. She didnt get a bronze star with a "V" device.
i cant quote the exact Army reg, but meritorious service during a combat op is a reason to be awarded the bronze star. Being a cook, truck driver, mechanic etc, and being in the middle of the shitstorm they encountered is beyond what they were trained for, and they did their best to try to fight their way out.
dying while engaged in combat, is meritorious . I dont think she could give much more than her life.
dont confuse a bronze star, with a bronze star with a "V" the V is for Valor. The bronze star is not an award solely for heroism, or courageously defeating the enemy, its also an award for merit.
Dying while in combat while engaged with the enemy is merit enough for me.
What award should she get for giving her life in the defense of our nation?
and dont forget, this incident was one of the most covered in the media during the entire period of the war.
Im sure all the media coverage had a lil to do with award decisions also.
And one last thing, it wasnt Lori's decision to get this award. Im sure she would give back the bronze star to be with her children again.
Im sure you wont change your mind, but it cant hurt to shed a few facts on what happened, and what are the requirements for the bronze star.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 2:14:22 AM EDT
If she was some cracker from Kingman Az, no one would care, let alone rename a freaking mountain after them. Proof? One did, and you didn't hear their life story.
I heard the Governor is considering changing the name of Arizona to Little Kalifornia also. While she's at it, she's going to change your dogs name to snuffels.
I don't take anything from her personally, it's the PC ass kissing the politicians are doing that makes me sick.
Arizona is unoffical motto is supposed to be, "Kick ass, take names later."
This Governor is changing it to, "Take it in the ass, swallow later."

Must... fight... urge... to... climb... up... bell... tower... with... scoped... 30'06...
-Steve
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 7:11:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 7:15:51 PM EDT by nfa-user]
I think the way everything was handled was not right. I'm not going to say she didn't deserve the awards and everything, but not what was named after her. I think they all did an equally great job considering all the "combat" training they had, was what they got in BCT. I don't think I could have done any better job then they did. I just think it should have been named something like "The Iraqi Freedom Memorial Freeway" or something to that effect. Something to give credit to all who gave it their all. I have no doubt, that I'll be over there this time next year doing my thing for this country.
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