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Posted: 12/5/2016 5:00:12 PM EDT
[#1]
I have talked to our officer about allowing all straight walled cartridges .357 and larger, just like the handgun. He was in favor of it, but said it would be hard to get it passed in Columbus. I will send a letter to ODNR, but it may be better to go over their heads, and call the Senators and Reps.
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Posted: 12/5/2016 5:36:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have talked to our officer about allowing all straight walled cartridges .357 and larger, just like the handgun. He was in favor of it, but said it would be hard to get it passed in Columbus. I will send a letter to ODNR, but it may be better to go over their heads, and call the Senators and Reps. That's a great idea as well. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 6:24:04 PM EDT
[#3]
I'll sign a petition to legalize the 450 BM for deer hunting. Let me know when or how to add my signature.
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Posted: 12/5/2016 8:26:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll sign a petition to legalize the 450 BM for deer hunting. Let me know when or how to add my signature. Thank you, and will do sir! |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 8:30:56 PM EDT
[#5]
I'll sign, and I'll write a letter from my laptop when I get home. But I'm close to just saying screw it and building a pistol AR in 450 bushy and putting a KAK on it.
The list of approved cartridges for rifles reads like a who's-who list of forgotten cowboy action rounds. I can't even find guns for sale in some of the calibers on that list. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 9:44:56 PM EDT
[#6]
I say just have Buckeye Firearms start pushing for it. I'd really like to see how allowing .243 and 308 in Indiana went is year. My bet is some fudds thought there would be people being slaughtered by errant rifle rounds, and that has failed to happen. Indiana is very similar topography to Ohio. We can bypass the ODNR if we just change the law.
If we can prove bottle neck rifles aren't any more inherently dangerous than slugs or pistol calibers when fired irresponsibly (I think we can), we can start opening up more of our guns for deer hunting. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 9:56:12 PM EDT
[#7]
You know I'm in for whatever I can do to help. I'll help with the draft if you need it and I'll sign a petition too if one goes around...
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Posted: 12/5/2016 11:54:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll sign, and I'll write a letter from my laptop when I get home. But I'm close to just saying screw it and building a pistol AR in 450 bushy and putting a KAK on it. The list of approved cartridges for rifles reads like a who's-who list of forgotten cowboy action rounds. I can't even find guns for sale in some of the calibers on that list. That's not a bad idea, and one that I thought about also. It's frustrating. Before the rifles were added, it was just .357 and larger, 5" barrel, etc. for pistol rounds. Now they add this "list", and if you're into wildcats of non-standardized cartridges, you're SOL. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 11:55:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I say just have Buckeye Firearms start pushing for it. I'd really like to see how allowing .243 and 308 in Indiana went is year. My bet is some fudds thought there would be people being slaughtered by errant rifle rounds, and that has failed to happen. Indiana is very similar topography to Ohio. We can bypass the ODNR if we just change the law. If we can prove bottle neck rifles aren't any more inherently dangerous than slugs or pistol calibers when fired irresponsibly (I think we can), we can start opening up more of our guns for deer hunting. Good points. I'll have to get in touch with them. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 11:56:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know I'm in for whatever I can do to help. I'll help with the draft if you need it and I'll sign a petition too if one goes around... |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:12:02 AM EDT
[#11]
I'd like to see 300BLK on the list. It is a straight-walled cartridge.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 9:14:30 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to see 300BLK on the list. It is a straight-walled cartridge. It's clearly a necked down case 
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Posted: 12/6/2016 11:05:03 AM EDT
[#13]
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It's clearly a necked down case http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae152/jbarrettuscg/19E58108-9334-4AC1-8D21-EE3DB03EA0BD.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd like to see 300BLK on the list. It is a straight-walled cartridge. It's clearly a necked down case http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae152/jbarrettuscg/19E58108-9334-4AC1-8D21-EE3DB03EA0BD.jpg Oops you are correct. I didn't look closely and thought all the taper was cut off the 223 casing for these. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:07:23 PM EDT
[#14]
I've been wanting to use a 450 Bushmaster for years.
I'll add my name or support to whatever you are doing. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:29:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oops you are correct. I didn't look closely and thought all the taper was cut off the 223 casing for these. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd like to see 300BLK on the list. It is a straight-walled cartridge. It's clearly a necked down case http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae152/jbarrettuscg/19E58108-9334-4AC1-8D21-EE3DB03EA0BD.jpg Oops you are correct. I didn't look closely and thought all the taper was cut off the 223 casing for these. No worries, it happens. I personally would LOVE to use .277WLV in Ohio, but I had to go to northern Michigan to use mine last year one deer. It's a great deer cartridge with the 100gr Nosler Accubonds, or the 95gr TTSX bullets. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:30:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been wanting to use a 450 Bushmaster for years. I'll add my name or support to whatever you are doing. Awesome brother, thanks! I'm going to start drafting ASAP. If y'all have anything you would like to share/add into the draft, write it up here and I'll copy-n-paste it in. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:42:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oops you are correct. I didn't look closely and thought all the taper was cut off the 223 casing for these. I've seen a straight walk 9mm wildcat based on a cut 223 case. I don't know if it had a name. The 44 Auto mag pistol would make an interesting rebarrel for a .308 shooter. Well, if .450 bushmaster didn't exist. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 12:57:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Talk has been that it will likely go the same way we saw pistols go. They started with a much more specific list and then were eventually opened up to the generic criteria used today. But sometimes, the ODNR moves really slowly. (getting the ohio congress to make the change would likely be a slower battle as it would require educating a lot more uninformed persons on AR <> assault rifle, black rifle <> machine gun etc etc).
ODNR holds annual open houses each spring in each of the wildlife districts. They want this type of feedback and comments and these are where the process for getting even the current pistol caliber rifles started. They are going to be March 4th this year. http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/stay-informed/public-meetings-open-houses I think you can request certain topic be put out across the districts from public comment. JLE |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:00:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:(getting the ohio congress to make the change would likely be a slower battle as it would require educating a lot more uninformed persons on AR <> assault rifle, black rifle <> machine gun etc etc).
JLE I'd say we are better off focusing on the ballistics and particulars on the cartridges themselves and less about the types of firearms they are used in. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:57:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Based on my experiences growing up in Indiana you will face opposition:
1. People who are old and set in their ways. They hunt where all shots are under 100 yards, so why would they want the rules changed? 2. People who are old and set in their ways. They will claim that 1,000's of accidents will occur because high velocity rifles are somehow less safe. 3. People who are old and set in their ways. They don't want anything implemented that makes hunting easier/cheaper. They have done it this way for 40 years, you should have to also. See a pattern here? It ends up being a popularity contest. You will be surprised at how many hunters will oppose this. The 243 and 30 cal rule in Indiana is nice this year. It's still silly that I can't use a 270. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 2:04:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say we are better off focusing on the ballistics and particulars on the cartridges themselves and less about the types of firearms they are used in. Right, why does there have to be a list of cartridges, it should be: 1) greater than .357 2) straightwall 3) Muzzle energy greater than 500 ft-lbs Done and done! |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 2:46:30 PM EDT
[#22]
I've always heard the fear of hunters using high-powered rifles, but an ODNR officer once told me it wasn't a safety issue, but a conservation one. They didn't want someone to be able to reach out 300+ yds to hit that monster buck. You had to work for it. But IDK.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 2:58:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Talk has been that it will likely go the same way we saw pistols go. They started with a much more specific list and then were eventually opened up to the generic criteria used today. But sometimes, the ODNR moves really slowly. (getting the ohio congress to make the change would likely be a slower battle as it would require educating a lot more uninformed persons on AR <> assault rifle, black rifle <> machine gun etc etc). ODNR holds annual open houses each spring in each of the wildlife districts. They want this type of feedback and comments and these are where the process for getting even the current pistol caliber rifles started. They are going to be March 4th this year. http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/stay-informed/public-meetings-open-houses I think you can request certain topic be put out across the districts from public comment. JLE Thanks for the info. The wildlife officer I talked to told me about that meeting, however he said it would behoove me to get the letter/petition in now (to give them more time to consider it, etc.). |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 2:58:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say we are better off focusing on the ballistics and particulars on the cartridges themselves and less about the types of firearms they are used in. Pretty much what the wildlife officer mentioned as well. He said comparing the ballistics to already approved cartridges would be a very good thing to include. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 2:59:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right, why does there have to be a list of cartridges, it should be: 1) greater than .357 2) straightwall 3) Muzzle energy greater than 500 ft-lbs Done and done! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd say we are better off focusing on the ballistics and particulars on the cartridges themselves and less about the types of firearms they are used in. Right, why does there have to be a list of cartridges, it should be: 1) greater than .357 2) straightwall 3) Muzzle energy greater than 500 ft-lbs Done and done! I like the way you thing brother!!! 
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Posted: 12/6/2016 3:06:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always heard the fear of hunters using high-powered rifles, but an ODNR officer once told me it wasn't a safety issue, but a conservation one. They didn't want someone to be able to reach out 300+ yds to hit that monster buck. You had to work for it. But IDK. That's ridiculous. There are many cartridges on the approved list that are more than capable of 300 yards, and beyond... I'm not aiming that at you personally, just the idea the ODNR officer is portraying. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 5:43:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right, why does there have to be a list of cartridges, it should be: 1) greater than .357 2) straightwall 3) Muzzle energy greater than 500 ft-lbs Done and done! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd say we are better off focusing on the ballistics and particulars on the cartridges themselves and less about the types of firearms they are used in. Right, why does there have to be a list of cartridges, it should be: 1) greater than .357 2) straightwall 3) Muzzle energy greater than 500 ft-lbs Done and done! If they were going to let it be that easy, why wouldn't they have already done it? 
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Posted: 12/6/2016 5:44:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much what the wildlife officer mentioned as well. He said comparing the ballistics to already approved cartridges would be a very good thing to include. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd say we are better off focusing on the ballistics and particulars on the cartridges themselves and less about the types of firearms they are used in. Pretty much what the wildlife officer mentioned as well. He said comparing the ballistics to already approved cartridges would be a very good thing to include. I'll make some graphics for you if I have time at work tonight. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 9:07:03 PM EDT
[#29]
As others have said, I'd love to see them add any straight wall cartridges, same as handguns are now. I would also like to see them add 300blk, as well as 30-30 win.
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Posted: 12/7/2016 1:59:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Here's some comparisons I grabbed off of Wikipedia. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 2:00:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Cropped a little differently
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Posted: 12/7/2016 11:17:07 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll make some graphics for you if I have time at work tonight. THANK YOU!! |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 11:17:28 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As others have said, I'd love to see them add any straight wall cartridges, same as handguns are now. I would also like to see them add 300blk, as well as 30-30 win. And .277WLV :) 
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Posted: 12/7/2016 11:17:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cropped a little differentlyhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/84914/450BMre-101802.png Thank you AJE, seriously! |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 4:08:27 PM EDT
[#35]
I would sign a petition. If someone puts together a standard letter, I will sign it and send it ODNR and my local wildlife officers.
I would really like to see .50 beowoulf on the list as well, or even better open it up to the same regulations as pistols. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 4:29:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would sign a petition. If someone puts together a standard letter, I will sign it and send it ODNR and my local wildlife officers. I would really like to see .50 beowoulf on the list as well, or even better open it up to the same regulations as pistols. And herein lies another angle. Should we push for just .450BM, then .50 beowoulf, or should we use this petition as the platform to do the above? To try and get the verbiage changed to what is used to be with pistols? |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 8:25:06 PM EDT
[#37]
It's amazing the polarized views within the firearms community. Fudds vs sporting vs self defense. Need to figure out how to make them all realize anything we can do for one interest will help the rest of us too. Strength in numbers.
I vote to add all of them. 458 SOCOM would be cool too. I've been considering building an AR pistol in 10mm. 14" barrel and shockwave blade. But I'll probably buy a PCC lever gun first. |
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Posted: 12/7/2016 8:39:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would sign a petition. If someone puts together a standard letter, I will sign it and send it ODNR and my local wildlife officers. I would really like to see .50 beowoulf on the list as well, or even better open it up to the same regulations as pistols. That seems to be a simpler argument. I'm curious why they didn't do that in the first place. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 12:51:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That seems to be a simpler argument. I'm curious why they didn't do that in the first place. Likely mainly for political/perception reasons. Too much fear that anti-gun/anti-hunting media would have immediately jumped on the 'Ohio hunters can use assault rifles to kill bambi now' bandwagon. It was big news when they were changing it, as each year passes it becomes less and less of a news story. JLE |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 2:22:41 PM EDT
[#40]
I agree, we need to push for parity with the handgun regs. That makes the most sense to me as it doesn't bring the type of rifle into play and might bring more people on board by not limiting to a finite set of cartridges. Regardless of what you guys try to push for, count me in. I'll sign the petition and if someone drafts a form letter, I'll send some out.
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Posted: 12/8/2016 4:47:56 PM EDT
[#41]
I think you're better off getting the Statehouse to do it for you.
The ODNR isn't being very copacetic lately |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 5:12:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you're better off getting the Statehouse to do it for you. The ODNR isn't being very copacetic lately I thought it was funny when the push to legalize hunting with suppressors was being talked about, ODNR came out and said "Wait, we can do this, you don't have to pass a law!". Yeah, thanks but no thanks, we've got this. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 5:41:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That seems to be a simpler argument. I'm curious why they didn't do that in the first place. I'm gonna go with ODNR is full of what we call Fudd's and aren't gun guys like most of us here. I would like a push for more rounds than just the one at a time specific cartridge route. If there's anything I can do to help let me know. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 7:30:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm gonna go with ODNR is full of what we call Fudd's and aren't gun guys like most of us here. I would like a push for more rounds than just the one at a time specific cartridge route. If there's anything I can do to help let me know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That seems to be a simpler argument. I'm curious why they didn't do that in the first place. I'm gonna go with ODNR is full of what we call Fudd's and aren't gun guys like most of us here. I would like a push for more rounds than just the one at a time specific cartridge route. If there's anything I can do to help let me know. It's settled then. Let's go that direction instead of just pushing for a specific caliber. As for help, what I need is help with verbiage. I'm not fluent in legalese (aka BS LOL JK!) so if anyone wants to help, that's much appreciated. I'm not quite caught up at work, however I'm going to try and start a draft tomorrow. Once I get that, I'll post it here and you guys can feel free to edit, add, remove; as necessary. Cheers! -Will |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 7:32:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you're better off getting the Statehouse to do it for you. The ODNR isn't being very copacetic lately I think maybe we should attack at both fronts. I might be able to get some help on that from my local club, as they have good relations with BFA. Also, I have a buddy that has a contact at ODNR (supposedly someone who can actually help get things done), so I'm going to try that angle as well. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 8:45:54 PM EDT
[#46]
So is there a particular reason why they went with the calibers that they did? Ballistics data? Back before they first allowed PCR's, I was looking into getting a 50 Beowulf and I want to say that it has similar trajectory to 45-70 which is what I ended up buying since it was on the approved caliber list.
I live in Columbus and have a business day off every week, so if anything needs dropped off or picked up in person I can make the trip. Would bullet drop data or anything like that be useful? |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 10:09:52 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is there a particular reason why they went with the calibers that they did? Ballistics data? Back before they first allowed PCR's, I was looking into getting a 50 Beowulf and I want to say that it has similar trajectory to 45-70 which is what I ended up buying since it was on the approved caliber list. I live in Columbus and have a business day off every week, so if anything needs dropped off or picked up in person I can make the trip. Would bullet drop data or anything like that be useful? That's a good question. I think maybe they did that on purpose when the PCRs were added, to limit people on what rifles they'd be taking out in the woods. When I talked to one ODNR rep on the phone a couple weeks back, he made it sound like they have to spend money to test every caliber before it's added to the list. I'm not sure what they "need" to test it for? There's plenty of published data out there on most of this stuff. That could all be BS, I don't know. Thanks for the offer on dropping off materials. It's much appreciated. The ballistics data would be useful if we were going to push for one specific caliber, however I think we're changing direction with this and are going to attempt to get it changed to how it used to be with handguns; a simplified set of rules (e.g. .357 and larger, minimum 5" barrel, etc., etc.). I might toss in the .450BM compared to one of the already approved cartridges, just to prove the point that there are so many "wildcat" or non-standardized cartridges out there that are popular and have similar or better ballistics to existing options that are on the approved list. I agree with some of the notions here that we kind of want to stay away from mentioning specific platforms (like the evil AR). Even my local Wildlife officer mentioned that talking about the AR platform might be a bad idea, just because of the reputation it has amongst uneducated people (on the subject, that is). |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 10:36:53 AM EDT
[#48]
Safety has very little to do with it.
The ODNR has a goal for how many deer they wanted harvested in the state every year. You and I both know that if you allowed flatter shooting rifles, the deer harvest would go up. How much it would go up I don't know. I think one of your main points should be that flatter shooting rifles promote a cleaner kill and less tracking of wounded animals. This is something the biologists would agree is good. They could care less that you have an AR15 lower or bolt action 270 and want to use it. It's all about managing the deer population from their standpoint. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 7:30:35 PM EDT
[#49]
I wrote them last year and never received a response. I clearly stated that I was in favor of the 450BM and offered how they could word the new guidelines for acceptable calibers to all straightwall cartridges.
I'll gladly sign a petition |
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Posted: 12/13/2016 11:04:45 AM EDT
[#50]
I specifically inquired with a game warden about potentially using a .50 Beowulf for deer season. He informed me that it was not an approved round and he seemed uncertain as to what it was.
I explained to him that it was used on an AR platform. He replied "we don't need those types of rifles in the woods." I was thinking of buying an upper if it was legal in Ohio. Bought a Henry All Weather .45-70 instead. Impressed a 175" 10 pointer with it. |
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