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Page Hometown » Ohio
Posted: 3/5/2006 7:55:15 PM EDT
Dunno if this is a dupe or not, its worth showing again:

Link to Armed Robbery Video


Man To Be Charged With Aggravated Robbery

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Police said a desk clerk shot a man who was
attempting to rob an east side motel on Saturday night.

Officers said that shortly before 9:30 p.m., a man walked into the
Super 8 Motel, located at 2055 Brice Rd., showed a gun and demanded
money.

Police said the desk clerk on duty then shot the alleged robber,
Antoine Stephens.
Stephens, 20, was transported to Grant Medical Center and was in
serious condition on Sunday morning, NBC 4 reported.

Police said he would be charged with aggravated robbery.

The motel clerk's name was not released. It was unclear as to whether
he would be charged.

Anyone with information about the crime is asked to contact the
Columbus police detective bureau at (614) 645-4624. Anonymous calls
can be made to Central Ohio Crime Stoppers at (614) 645-8477.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:14:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 8:34:02 PM EDT by MeestaSparkle]
Man, that's a crazy video. That got a little too close to the baby and his mom for my liking. I don't know what they would charge the worker with though. I probably wouldn't have fired just because there was a mom and a baby was so close; but I'm glad the robber is off the street.

Just out of curiosity, how does the law work. Hypothetically, if you waited for him to leave and then went out and shot at him, would they see that as worse than just firing at him immediately? What if someone jumped you, took your money, and you shot them as they were trying to get away. Is that viewed differently as if you shot them while they were still robbing you?

I had a friend while I was in high school who got jumped. Some guy jumped from above him, then another came while he was down and held him at gunpoint while he had to give up his wallet. Didn't really have a chance to do anything. So I'm curious. If he had a CCL, and fired back at the first opportunity he had, how would the courts view that. It seems like a gray area. On one hand, he may no longer be a threat at the moment. But he also has your id with your address and everything in it, on top of you credit cards, etc. I can't remmeber, but I think they may have actually threatened him with the fact they now had his address and id.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:37:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:12:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



Thanks for the contribution to the thread, it's that much more interesting now.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:28:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057




Dupe asshats

Read it,Learn it,Live it.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:20:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



hmmmm....roger.


Hasn't been posted in the Ohio Forum yet.

I was most impressed with his shooting, only taking 3 shots to end the threat.

One could argue the guy started to retreat, then he shot...?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:17:24 AM EDT

Thanks for the contribution to the thread, it's that much more interesting now



heh heh. Swingset, I read your rant in Team, was going to reply, but hit cancel instead. I mostly agree, but have no idea how to solve the problem(s).

I think you have hit on a good approach, though, at least to the dupers. A dry retort, just enough to show you noticed the boarish behaviour, kind of like acknowledging a wad of spit on the ground just enough to avoid walking in it.

Still no idea what to suggest about the search (lack of) functionality, though.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:51:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chromeluv:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



hmmmm....roger.


Hasn't been posted in the Ohio Forum yet.

I was most impressed with his shooting, only taking 3 shots to end the threat.

One could argue the guy started to retreat, then he shot...?



dont matter... when he walked in with the gun, the game was on.. there is no "timeout" just cuz hes going for cover, and has his back to you..
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:39:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ring:

Originally Posted By chromeluv:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



hmmmm....roger.


Hasn't been posted in the Ohio Forum yet.

I was most impressed with his shooting, only taking 3 shots to end the threat.

One could argue the guy started to retreat, then he shot...?



dont matter... when he walked in with the gun, the game was on.. there is no "timeout" just cuz hes going for cover, and has his back to you..



well put, i completely agree with you. Was playing the devil's advocate
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 10:11:47 AM EDT
Apparently he was, in fact, professional enough to carry a Glock 40.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:02:54 PM EDT
He must have been very well trained, excelent use of the coworker as cover. He made a quick decision to fight back and did not hesitate. The response was swift and violent, and the assailent had no chance to retaliate.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:03:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By walther_gsp:
Apparently he was, in fact, professional enough to carry a Glock 40.



lol..
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:45:20 PM EDT
any idea of how many hit he scored .it looked as though he might have missed the first but two and three probably got him.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:04:52 PM EDT
Good shoot.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:05:09 PM EDT
according to his testimony on the site in the other thread, he was 3/3
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:58:01 PM EDT
these guys need to hand in there man cards along with there CCW's

ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=2737&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:45:18 PM EDT
Coming or going with the gun in his hand the thief got some fair justice.

Thats why I say hey man nice shot...nice shot man
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:23:46 PM EDT
I'm buying that guy a beer the next time I'm in Columbus.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:43:31 AM EDT
Playing the devils advocate...if that video was in fact in Ohio, I'm afraid the shooter may be in for some deep shit. He obviously shot a retreating man, like it or not. He presented his firearm, the bad guy decided to grow a quick brain and get the hell out of dodge as fast as he could when faced with an armed adversary. Good shooting...poor decision, IMHO, particularly using his co-worker for cover and popping off three rounds past the head of an infant. I'd like to think I'd make a better decision than that, but who knows...when the adrenaline is flowing at max capacity...
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:59:24 AM EDT

He obviously shot a retreating man, like it or not.
.
so? he had a gun.. dont matter what direction u r faceing, or where u are going.. u are still a threat.
how do i know im right?.. the cops told him "good shoot"


He presented his firearm, the bad guy decided to grow a quick brain and get the hell out of dodge as fast as he could when faced with an armed adversary.

this aint a game, its life.. there is no "time out" just because the guy didnt want to finish what he started.


poor decision, IMHO, particularly using his co-worker for cover .

the coworker consield his draw, then he cleared her to start firing.. he at no time used her for "cover"



and popping off three rounds past the head of an infant

hardly...


I'd like to think I'd make a better decision than that, but who knows...

like?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:25:39 AM EDT
If someone pointed a gun at me in that situation and retreated after I fired at them I would think they were just going for cover to return fire or going to get their buddies help.

The fact is the bad guy lost and the baby, mother and co-worker are fine aside from maybe some hearing damage. Thats far better than what could have happened.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:09:03 AM EDT
I've yet to see a cogent explanation, that is not supported by personal bias or evidence that is not clearly ascertainable from the tape) of how this was a bad shoot.

Good shoot.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:12:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 12:15:18 PM EDT by Red-Leg]

Originally Posted By Ring:

He obviously shot a retreating man, like it or not.
.
so? he had a gun.. dont matter what direction u r faceing, or where u are going.. u are still a threat.
how do i know im right?.. the cops told him "good shoot"

Just because the cops told him "good shoot" doesn't mean he won't face a civil trial before a jury of his "peers" who look at the video and see him shoot at a guy running away from him.


He presented his firearm, the bad guy decided to grow a quick brain and get the hell out of dodge as fast as he could when faced with an armed adversary.

this aint a game, its life.. there is no "time out" just because the guy didnt want to finish what he started.

I realize that. If you read my post you would see that I started with "Playing devil's advocate here..." According to my understanding of the use of deadly force in Ohio, you are only allowed to use deadly force when confronted with deadly force. He had the full right to draw down on the guy but as soon as the perp tucked tail and ran the threat is over...again, playing devil's advocate.


poor decision, IMHO, particularly using his co-worker for cover .

the coworker consield his draw, then he cleared her to start firing.. he at no time used her for "cover"

He used her for cover and concealment.



and popping off three rounds past the head of an infant

hardly...

How you could say that is beyond me. How could he know the reaction of the mother or child when he decided to shoot?


I'd like to think I'd make a better decision than that, but who knows...

like?

Like drawing down on the guy and recognizing the shitstain in his pants as he suddenly sees you as a threat and runs out the door and you hold your fire.



I'm not saying the bad guy didn't deserve his visit to hell, just that as a CCW holder in the state of Ohio, you had better be able to recognize and react to a threat with the minimum force required to negate said threat. That's not to say I agree with the law but we must all abide by it, if not for criminal reasons at least for liability reasons. I'd hate to have to shoot some scumbat just to have his family take me for everything I own. It's just my observations based upon the video, nothing more, nothing less.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:17:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
If someone pointed a gun at me in that situation and retreated after I fired at them I would think they were just going for cover to return fire or going to get their buddies help.

The fact is the bad guy lost and the baby, mother and co-worker are fine aside from maybe some hearing damage. Thats far better than what could have happened.



Unfortunately, the first round was fired after the guy was hauling ass towards the door, not before as you state.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 12:28:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



Thanks for the contribution to the thread, it's that much more interesting now.



I only called it because it was still going strong on page 1 of GD
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:35:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Magurgle:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



Thanks for the contribution to the thread, it's that much more interesting now.



I only called it because it was still going strong on page 1 of GD



And for those of us that don't read every bit of drivel, nor analyze every thread posted in "GD", but prefer to read primarily about Ohio issues, I'll echo what Swingset said earlier.

This "dupe" shit is the only irritating thing I find here, and it'll likely be the main reason I don't renew my paid membership this year.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:30:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JEC:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



Thanks for the contribution to the thread, it's that much more interesting now.



I only called it because it was still going strong on page 1 of GD



And for those of us that don't read every bit of drivel, nor analyze every thread posted in "GD", but prefer to read primarily about Ohio issues, I'll echo what Swingset said earlier.

This "dupe" shit is the only irritating thing I find here, and it'll likely be the main reason I don't renew my paid membership this year.



i would agree completely. I just realized i hardly ever if at all find myself in GD. AR Tech Forums/1911 forums/Ohio Forum/Training/EE/sometimes the PIT

I can't stand the duping, +87, jbt, IBTL bullshit. I saw a "IBTL" in the fucking EE just a couple days ago..? Believe that shit..

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:37:33 PM EDT
i wonder how much of a chance he has in a civil trial with that video. i dont think it would end well for him
financially.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:54:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Magurgle:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



Thanks for the contribution to the thread, it's that much more interesting now.



I only called it because it was still going strong on page 1 of GD



The only guy who needs to "Call It" here is shotar. This is why a lot of us don't even step foot in GD
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:06:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
He must have been very well trained, excelent use of the coworker as cover. He made a quick decision to fight back and did not hesitate. The response was swift and violent, and the assailent had no chance to retaliate.



I read your post before seeing the vid and thought "seems kinda pansy to me", but agree 100% now. That was a nice draw without being noticed
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:48:49 PM EDT
In the spirit and desire of contributing an actual opinion to this topic, I offer this:

Thanks to those that offered their point of view.
After watching the video, I have mixed emotions and opinions. Perhaps I would have reacted in exactly the same way. Perhaps not.


I appreciate the fact that observing this video makes me think very hard about what I would do, or wouldn't do, in the same situation, and "food for thought" is always good.
I hope I never experience the same scenario, but I feel better, and rather thankful, for having the chance to consider and speculate as to what to do if I were under that same intense, threatening, adrenaline fueled pressure.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:14:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JEC:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
DUPE!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057



Thanks for the contribution to the thread, it's that much more interesting now.



I only called it because it was still going strong on page 1 of GD



And for those of us that don't read every bit of drivel, nor analyze every thread posted in "GD", but prefer to read primarily about Ohio issues, I'll echo what Swingset said earlier.

This "dupe" shit is the only irritating thing I find here, and it'll likely be the main reason I don't renew my paid membership this year.



Point taken, in hindsite it was poor judgement. Of coure this belong in the ohio forum, it happened here
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:20:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twckxbzd:
i wonder how much of a chance he has in a civil trial with that video. i dont think it would end well for him
financially.



+1

Only has about 5 more months left on the civil statute of limitations. But, as that would be charged as a felonious assault he's still got 5 years, 5 months on the criminal statute of limitations. And with that video circulating around, at some point, somewhere its going to wind up on someone's desk who will see it as the opportunity to make a point and the veritable excrement will hit the fan.

A robbery occurred, an individual felt his life to be endanger and exercised his right to self defense. I have no qualm with that. My problem occurs when people then turn their use of that right into a video which essentially makes light of what occurred. Its stuff like this that all those bliss-ninnies and sheeple who are opposed to allowing us the ability and tools necessary to exercise our right to self defense will use in their noisy cries to disarm the common folk. At some point this will filter to the Dispatch, the Plain Dealer, the Lee Fishers or some other biased group or individual who will use it as the rally point to either seek prosecution of the shooter or the curtailment of Ohio's CCW law.

Many people have fought long and hard to get us the law we currently have and that fight continues in the current attempts to clean up that law. Its unfortunate that there are individuals who don't understand the impact that creating such videos can have on that fight, our cause and the adverse affects it could have on all of us.

Agree or disagree with me you may, but we have to be cognizant of those who wish to curtail or outright take our rights and be absolutely sure that we don't provide them any reason to further their cause.

That said, lets turn to the video. While this is just snippets of the original surveilance video (as seen by the "perp" just appearing in the video), what I suggest doing is looking again at when the shooter starts to draw. Slow the video down at that point and look at the reflection in the glass as to the "perp's" actions/movements. Its worth looking at...
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:27:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 5:28:14 PM EDT by AR_DIESEL]
I felt the need to reply without reading the rest of the tread...so i appologize if i beat a dead horse.

Originally Posted By Ring:

He obviously shot a retreating man, like it or not.
.
so? he had a gun.. dont (doesn't) matter what direction u r faceing (facing), or where u are going.. u are still a threat.
how do i know im right?.. the cops told him "good shoot"

Actually it does matter...how i understand it, and how i was taught in my CCW...basically you CANT shoot a retreating assailant...
As for the COPS opinion...im not going to touch that one



He presented his firearm, the bad guy decided to grow a quick brain and get the hell out of dodge as fast as he could when faced with an armed adversary.

this aint a game, its life.. there is no "time out" just because the guy didnt want to finish what he started.

Again...i dont think that this is compliant to the CCW laws...at least not how i was taught


poor decision, IMHO, particularly using his co-worker for cover .

the coworker consield his draw, then he cleared her to start firing.. he at no time used her for "cover"

Here i agree...she was just in a position that was a HUGE benefit to him...he didnt put or pull her there.

and popping off three rounds past the head of an infant


hardly...

It wasnt actually as close as it appears the first time you view it.

If i was going on what i was taught in CCW...i would say bad shoot...BUT, i am more than glad to know that if i am faced with a similar situation i dont have to be worried to act.

I wonder how different things would have gone for the clerk if there was no film or witnesses...Hmmmm?

Diesel
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:31:26 PM EDT
Sorry for the double tap...

But this guy is a HUGE dumbass for making this video and activly participating in discussions about it on the 'net.

Anyone feel the same way?

Diesel
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:13:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR_DIESEL:
Sorry for the double tap...

But this guy is a HUGE dumbass for making this video and activly participating in discussions about it on the 'net.

Anyone feel the same way?

Diesel



The first thing his attorney, if he was smart enough to consult one, would advise him is to not talk to anyone. The fewer times you tell a story the fewer times you can change it.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:09:24 AM EDT
Is this really a "CCW" issue? Maybe... But I thought that even before ohio passed the CCW law, that buisnesses could arm themselves if and while on their own property.

Just a thought.... I may be completely wrong

BTW... I'm glad the world is down one bad guy, but this video could be used to play right into the hands of gun fearing sheeple.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:12:34 AM EDT
I have to weigh in on this subject. I can spit on teh super 8 from my balcony. I also have first hand knowledge of the incident due to the fact that my fiancee was the third officer on scene arriving moments after the incident. There were no charges filed against the clerk. He is infact a firearms instructor here in columbus and works also at a well known gun store. The perp live and was captured just outside the door in a pool of blood. He was later linked to at least one other robbery in the area.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:53:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 11:54:22 AM EDT by Ring]
AR_DIESEL, you were taught wrong.. dont feel bad, my instructors were dumb ass's as well, they told anyone carrying a revolver, to not carry it on a loaded chamber...

the law says, you not only have the right to defend your life with deadly force, but others as well..

keeping that in mind, as long as he has that gun in his hand and he is still breathing, he is a threat.

whether he is walking towards you or away, because he could have vary well killed anyone outside when leaving or turned to fire at any time, including threw the glass from outside...


again, the game was on from the time he produced the gun.. and didnt end till he is no longer a threat.. him armed outside is still a threat.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:29:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ-75Jeff:
Is this really a "CCW" issue? Maybe... But I thought that even before ohio passed the CCW law, that buisnesses could arm themselves if and while on their own property.

Just a thought.... I may be completely wrong

BTW... I'm glad the world is down one bad guy, but this video could be used to play right into the hands of gun fearing sheeple.


You're right. I can CCW in my own house or backyard. Hell, I can carry openly almost anywhere in this county. Right through downtown fricking Troy.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:55:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 7:10:32 PM EDT by AR_DIESEL]
we'll have to agree to disagree i guess
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