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Page Hometown » Ohio
Posted: 3/1/2006 2:34:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 3:13:26 PM EDT by JohnnyMcEldoo]
At his work they arranged a small room behind the lockers in which you could get into this small room by going through one of the locker room doors. So workers would go in there to rest, watch TV and snack if I remember the story right....on the companies time.

I wasnt surprised when AK steel announced recently that they couldnt afford to operate anymore under the current contract with their labor force.


ETA: www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20060301-1329-steel-union.html
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:51:11 PM EDT
Wasn't that at the GM truck and bus plant in Moraine?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:15:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blkbeard:
Wasn't that at the GM truck and bus plant in Moraine?



No AK steel is in middletown/trenton area.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:19:30 PM EDT
sounds kinda cool, like a batcave.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:08:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twckxbzd:
sounds kinda cool, like a batcave.




Pretty cool until your employer tells you they cant afford to give you 70 hours/week @ $20+ per hour while paying your medical, dental, optical etc. and not to mention legacy costs.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:42:10 PM EDT
Old school unions continue to dig their own grave and further destroy this country's job base.

Well done.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 2:31:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Old school unions continue to dig their own grave and further destroy this country's job base.

Well done.




Eh, it will rebound, somehow. I remember last summer a family member told me "China might end up being the best thing for this country." Essentially, the old school unions, as you put it, are going to strike themselves right out of jobs. I predict its going to be ugly, lots of gloom and doom, but eventually things will be restructured. Those jobs won't be the gravy train they are now, but they'll be back, and good paying jobs.

...and yes, I did say "gravy train". Does anyone who lives in the Dayton area remember the news segment about a year ago about how Delphi workers abused their sick time, and just how bad quality control was there? It strikes me as odd that those guys are complaining about a 60 percent pay cut since evidently they only work 40 percent of the time anyway.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:54:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 3:56:19 AM EDT by SWO_daddy]
Don't get me started on the abuse the Family Medical Leave Act has created.

Where I work the use of FMLA has become a second source of vacation.

FMLA is another good idea that, through the lawmaking and subsequent rulemaking processes and legal opinions, has become a nightmare for employers and yet another government entitlement program and a HUGE productivity drain.

The Japanese continue to look at us in amazement. It is no surpise that not a single American or European car made it to the 2006 Consumer Reports "best pick" list.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:10:22 AM EDT
I work union, but my union is an old time skilled trade - printer's unions don't usually make any more per hour than non-union, and we can lose our card for poor performance.

I had to apprentice for 5 years, and take a test, to get my card, and although I'd personally prefer to not work for a union shop, I certainly don't see our specific union doing any harm to american labor. What drove our business overseas is cheap ink and paper, because here the greenies have driven lumber prices through the roof and ink production is killed by EPA regs.

While unions in general have become a greedy political machine, no one should EVER forget what working conditions were like for most people before the Unions came to be, and how good things are because of their efforts. People like to assume because unions are corrupt that they serve no function, or worse, that business without a counterbalance will be benevolent or good for the working class. That's very small-minded, if you've read your history you'll understand why.

Like most things nowadays, it's become a polarized, complex fight and people either believe unions are good or evil, when in truth it's neither. They are no more completely worthless than business is completely good.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:14:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 5:14:55 AM EDT by swingset]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
The Japanese continue to look at us in amazement. It is no surpise that not a single American or European car made it to the 2006 Consumer Reports "best pick" list.



I agree with you in principle, but the Japanese should look at us in amazement because we average more hours per week than they do. Yes, we outwork every industrialized nation on earth.

And, it's interesting to note that in the last 20 years, the average vacation time for Japenese workers has tripled....so they're getting a taste of that European work style.

The car thing is interesting but to me it's interesting because almost every car on the CR report that's "Japanese" is built right here with American labor. Alot of the American products that didn't make the list are made in Canada & Mexico.

We're not as good as we should be, but we're certainly better than most of the world....as workers.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:10:23 AM EDT
remember a few years back when the gm guys made themselves a little hideaway closet in the middle of a gm plant? gm put in a hidden camera and caught them doing many things they shouldnt have been doing on gm property. i have driven 3 chevys. i had a bolt snap on the last one. the guy at smedleys chevy in vandalia said thats not our problem. its a sub contracters bolt. then i thought it does say chevrolet on the side of the car. hmmmm not my problem either. i cant afford to drive chevys that break down with 60.000 miles on them. it blew the engine. thats the last chevy i owned. i do like the corvettes but, i am always wondering if i buy one how much it will cost me to keep it running with all those sub contracter parts on it? damn good point about the jap owned american built cars.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:47:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
The Japanese continue to look at us in amazement. It is no surpise that not a single American or European car made it to the 2006 Consumer Reports "best pick" list.



I agree with you in principle, but the Japanese should look at us in amazement because we average more hours per week than they do. Yes, we outwork every industrialized nation on earth.

And, it's interesting to note that in the last 20 years, the average vacation time for Japenese workers has tripled....so they're getting a taste of that European work style.

The car thing is interesting but to me it's interesting because almost every car on the CR report that's "Japanese" is built right here with American labor. Alot of the American products that didn't make the list are made in Canada & Mexico.

We're not as good as we should be, but we're certainly better than most of the world....as workers.



Working hours per week is a meaningless metric. Productive output per hour is far more important. And in that category American (by the traditional definition) car companies still come up short.

You're right, American labor makes most of the Japanese cars sold here. They do it under Japanese methods of production and management, even if their management is also American. That's what I meant when I said that the Japanese look at us (American industry) in amazement. They know that American workers can do the job, which is why they wonder why GM, Ford, and to a much lesser degree, Daimler Chrysler are in the straits they are in.

In the interest of full disclosure I work for a non-union Japanese supplier to Honda, and I have previously worked for small and large unionized American compaines in aerospace and automotive manufacturing.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:55:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sven223:
remember a few years back when the gm guys made themselves a little hideaway closet in the middle of a gm plant? gm put in a hidden camera and caught them doing many things they shouldnt have been doing on gm property. i have driven 3 chevys. i had a bolt snap on the last one. the guy at smedleys chevy in vandalia said thats not our problem. its a sub contracters bolt. then i thought it does say chevrolet on the side of the car. hmmmm not my problem either. i cant afford to drive chevys that break down with 60.000 miles on them. it blew the engine. thats the last chevy i owned. i do like the corvettes but, i am always wondering if i buy one how much it will cost me to keep it running with all those sub contracter parts on it? damn good point about the jap owned american built cars.



I worked at GM's Moraine plant as a contract engineer in supplier quality for a couple of weeks. I was horrified by the inefficient management and production structure I saw, and I left as soon as I could when I got a job offer from a Japanese company.

While I was there, I noticed that the ONLY GM-made parts in the SUVs made there are these: engine and transmission (GM Powertrain), body sheetmetal (most of it by GM Stamping), and the body itself (welded up at Moraine). EVERYTHING else came from somebody else. True, a lot of it came from Delphi (ex-GM), but a lot did not. Even the frames came fully welded up and painted from a Canadian supplier. Wiring, interior trim, exterior trim, wheels, brakes, driveshafts, steering, lights, etc, etc, etc, subcontracted. And GM is not alone.

That is not necessarily a bad thing, the Japanese were that way since after WW2. You have to have good suppliers and you have to manage them.
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