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Posted: 1/16/2006 8:07:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:08:34 PM EDT by MillerTime85]
I have never been to a gun show and from what I heard, berea just had a gun show and there next one is march. I live kind of far from Berea, so is it worth it to go. Since you have to pay to get in most of them, what makes them better than a sporting goods store, or the internet? Do they have any better deals or cooler and more rare stuff? Im thinkin about going to the next one, because I am looking for a high powered rifle that already has or has the ablility of mounting a scope. Probably like a bolt action in the caliber of at least .270, .308, 7.62 NATO, .30-06, 8mm mauser, or something in that range. I dont really have a huge amount to spend though. Reason I want something like this is that I already have an ak, sks, a lever action 22lr, and a 12 gauge shotgun... I wont be 21 until august, so no pistols for me yet. But I want an inexpensive long range rifle that is powerful and accurate and can easily take a scope for more fun on the 100 yard range as well as if I ever decide to deer hunt out of state. Im only a little hesitant about a bolt action though, because I am left handed so it will take some getting used to, Ill be like that one guy in saving private ryan that shoots his bolt action left handed and then reaches over the top to cycle the next round. Unless your a leftie, you wouldnt understand that being left handed is truly a handicap, nearly everything in this world is designed for right handed people. Im sure I will be able to adapt to it though, All my other weapons are right handed and I managed to adapt to them.

But cutting to the chase, do you think ill be able to find something like I am looking for at the Berea show or have any recommendations on a certain type of gun? I know I said something cheap, but I can afford something a little better than a mosin nagant.. so if you have something in mind, please share...
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:14:30 PM EDT
Medina gun show si this weekend, maybe you are closer to it than Berea. As with all guns shows, there are bargains, you just have to KNOW what is a baragain and what isnt, do your homework. Lastly, have fun.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:32:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:48:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 9:48:54 AM EDT by car15man]
AHHH.. The smell of the Berea Gun Show. Old moldy WWII relics,(by that I mean the gear, and the people), deer jerky, ammo, and sweaty plumbers crack....It's like Napalm in the morning
The countless numbers, all wearing their hillbilly tuxedos (realtree camo and blaze orange)
It keeps me comin back mmmmmmm...... LOL

Seriously.. Medina is better this time of year. I'll be down thar this weekend.

To try and solve your rifle problem...Lefty and all..Try a single shot break open style rifle.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:19:33 AM EDT
I think what weekend makes gunshows a little better than most sporting good stores is a larger selection for a variety of guns and accessories. You can also price shop under one roof, the same items usually multiple times.


Goodmans in Dayton is this weekend, PRO is having one in Springfield next weekend.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:27:47 PM EDT
Do we still pay FFL fee if buying firearms at gunshows?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:17:38 AM EDT
You are paying for certain fees but those are normally included in the price of the gun, less tax. Same as walking into your favorite gunstore. Now transfers are a different story, the guy receiving transfer (background check)has to make some kind of money out of it, I've paid as low as $10 and paid as high as $30 for a transfer. The Norm being right around $20-$25.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:31:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By car15man:rning
The countless numbers, all wearing their hillbilly tuxedos (realtree camo and blaze orange)
It keeps me comin back mmmmmmm...... LOL



Wearing camo and blaze orange to a gun show is ultra ghey.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:24:36 AM EDT
Sir...Sir...I know your'e wearing your hillbilly tuxedo...but stop trying to hide..I can still see youuuuu
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:19:14 PM EDT
Right after the gunshow Elmer Fudds come the cowboy, civil war, and WW2 reenactors. They are harmless, but hilarious.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 11:17:00 AM EDT
I went to the Berea Gun Show back in June '05. They had 4 buildings and a few food vendors. Admission was $5. I thought there was a pretty good balance between "private sellers" and dealers. The thing that was a little scary was the "cash and carry" policy of the private sellers. I bought a used Smith and Wesson from one of them and gave him cash and a handshake. All I had to show was my driver's license to prove I was over 21. I wonder if they all even do that. Since my NICS check is good to go anyways, it didn't phase me to skip it. But I can see why some anti-gunners want to shut down the gun shows....or at least reign in the private sellers. Good Luck! and SemperFi!
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:08:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 4:00:03 AM EDT by glimmerman68]

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
I went to the Berea Gun Show back in June '05. They had 4 buildings and a few food vendors. Admission was $5. I thought there was a pretty good balance between "private sellers" and dealers. The thing that was a little scary was the "cash and carry" policy of the private sellers. I bought a used Smith and Wesson from one of them and gave him cash and a handshake. All I had to show was my driver's license to prove I was over 21. I wonder if they all even do that. Since my NICS check is good to go anyways, it didn't phase me to skip it. But I can see why some anti-gunners want to shut down the gun shows....or at least reign in the private sellers. Good Luck! and SemperFi!



Last time I checked, a private sell was ment to be private because it was nobodies business what transacted between individuals. If you are that worried about private sells you might consider turning in all your guns and joining the activists at Handgun Control Inc, DU, or various other do gooder gun control groups. I have no doubt they would welcome you with open arms.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:43:28 PM EDT
+ 1
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:49:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glimmerman68:

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
I went to the Berea Gun Show back in June '05. They had 4 buildings and a few food vendors. Admission was $5. I thought there was a pretty good balance between "private sellers" and dealers. The thing that was a little scary was the "cash and carry" policy of the private sellers. I bought a used Smith and Wesson from one of them and gave him cash and a handshake. All I had to show was my driver's license to prove I was over 21. I wonder if they all even do that. Since my NICS check is good to go anyways, it didn't phase me to skip it. But I can see why some anti-gunners want to shut down the gun shows....or at least reign in the private sellers. Good Luck! and SemperFi!



Last time I checked, a private was ment to be private because it was nobodies business what transacted between individuals. If you are that worried about private sells you might consider turning in all your guns and joining the activist at Handgun Control Inc, DU, or various other do gooder gun control groups. I have no doubt they would welcome you with open arms.



True dat.

Private sales are not regulatd in Ohio. No check is required.

Until big brother sticks his nose into that part of your life as well, the trans action is completely legal.

Good assessment, Glimmerman.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 3:10:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 3:16:28 PM EDT by agillig]

Originally Posted By MillerTime85:
Im only a little hesitant about a bolt action though, because I am left handed so it will take some getting used to, Ill be like that one guy in saving private ryan that shoots his bolt action left handed and then reaches over the top to cycle the next round. Unless your a leftie, you wouldnt understand that being left handed is truly a handicap, nearly everything in this world is designed for right handed people. Im sure I will be able to adapt to it though, All my other weapons are right handed and I managed to adapt to them. [quote/]

I shoot long guns left handed, and still use my right hand to work the bolt. I won't win any speed competitions, but it gets the job done.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 8:25:01 PM EDT
If you are a LAW ABIDING citizen, I don't give a rat's ass where or who you buy your weapons from....but if you are MENTALLY ILL, or a felon who was CONVICTED WITH WEAPONS SPECIFICATIONS, I have a problem with the ease of buying from a "private seller".....I guess if you've never been a victim, as members of my family have , you wouldn't understand....I DO NOT believe that ALL felonies should ban you from owning....but if a perp committed a crime with a gun once, I believe they will do it again...thus, they do not deserve to own a weapon.....they blew their chance....and, BTW Glimmerman....WTF is "DU".....I would never join any group that opposes my 2nd Amendment rights, let alone one that supports taking my weapons or any other LAW ABIDING citizen's weapons away...GET THE PICTURE???......violent felons need not have any avenue to purchase guns....understand???SemperFi!
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:53:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 9:54:42 PM EDT by swingset]

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
If you are a LAW ABIDING citizen, I don't give a rat's ass where or who you buy your weapons from....but if you are MENTALLY ILL, or a felon who was CONVICTED WITH WEAPONS SPECIFICATIONS, I have a problem with the ease of buying from a "private seller".....I guess if you've never been a victim, as members of my family have , you wouldn't understand....I DO NOT believe that ALL felonies should ban you from owning....but if a perp committed a crime with a gun once, I believe they will do it again...thus, they do not deserve to own a weapon.....they blew their chance....and, BTW Glimmerman....WTF is "DU".....I would never join any group that opposes my 2nd Amendment rights, let alone one that supports taking my weapons or any other LAW ABIDING citizen's weapons away...GET THE PICTURE???......violent felons need not have any avenue to purchase guns....understand???SemperFi!



Sounds like you're for "reasonable gun control", and closing that pesky "gunshow loophole".

I suppose it sounds reasonable, until you give it some thought. You want violent felons or the mentally deficient to not have such easy access to guns?

Violent felons should not have access to weapons, and in prison (where felons are kept) I agree - you shouldn't give them guns. Once released, there is already a law preventing felons from buying firearms. They no longer have the right to own them. If you're a felon, or mentally ill, you are prohibited from owning a firearm, it's YOU that have violated the law when you go to a gunshow and buy a gun from an individual - yet your stance is that it's MY duty as a firearm owner to screen a potential sale? Sounds like lefty logic - punish the free man because of the misdeeds of others.

If you would like private citizens to conduct background checks, then by all means lobby your local politician to close down gun shows, make newspaper and FTF transactions regulated and/or illegal. That will surely help the RKBA tremendously (sarcasm).
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:17:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
I went to the Berea Gun Show back in June '05. They had 4 buildings and a few food vendors. Admission was $5. I thought there was a pretty good balance between "private sellers" and dealers. The thing that was a little scary was the "cash and carry" policy of the private sellers. I bought a used Smith and Wesson from one of them and gave him cash and a handshake. All I had to show was my driver's license to prove I was over 21. I wonder if they all even do that. Since my NICS check is good to go anyways, it didn't phase me to skip it. But I can see why some anti-gunners want to shut down the gun shows....or at least reign in the private sellers. Good Luck! and SemperFi!



WTF? "reign in the private sellers" ?
You really need some education on our Constitution.
Your posts are really leftist, this isn't the first.
It's probably not your fault, they don't teach it very well in school.
But seriously, do some reading.
Your handle just makes it even worse.
Maybe you should try "MoveOnLefty", then at least we'd have a better idea of what to expect in your posts.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:30:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 5:59:34 AM EDT by glimmerman68]

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
If you are a LAW ABIDING citizen, I don't give a rat's ass where or who you buy your weapons from....but if you are MENTALLY ILL, or a felon who was CONVICTED WITH WEAPONS SPECIFICATIONS, I have a problem with the ease of buying from a "private seller".....I guess if you've never been a victim, as members of my family have , you wouldn't understand....I DO NOT believe that ALL felonies should ban you from owning....but if a perp committed a crime with a gun once, I believe they will do it again...thus, they do not deserve to own a weapon.....they blew their chance....and, BTW Glimmerman....WTF is "DU".....I would never join any group that opposes my 2nd Amendment rights, let alone one that supports taking my weapons or any other LAW ABIDING citizen's weapons away...GET THE PICTURE???......violent felons need not have any avenue to purchase guns....understand???SemperFi!



The only picture I get is, "shall not be infringed...."

Please feel free to advocate closing of the gunshow "loophole." If I am not nistaken, Mr. Fingerhut would be more than willing to help you in your indeavors to impose your will on the people by closing the gunshow "loophole."

I am going to go out on a limb here, I get feeling from reading your posts that your world is 50% black and 50% white, I will hope and pray that it will remaim as such.

edited: DU is democratic underground

BTW, I would like to apologize to MillerTime85 for dumpnig on his thread the way I have. Sorry. I would be more than happy to buy you the Miller beer of your choice.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:58:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
If you are a LAW ABIDING citizen, I don't give a rat's ass where or who you buy your weapons from....but if you are MENTALLY ILL, or a felon who was CONVICTED WITH WEAPONS SPECIFICATIONS, I have a problem with the ease of buying from a "private seller".....I guess if you've never been a victim, as members of my family have , you wouldn't understand....I DO NOT believe that ALL felonies should ban you from owning....but if a perp committed a crime with a gun once, I believe they will do it again...thus, they do not deserve to own a weapon.....they blew their chance....and, BTW Glimmerman....WTF is "DU".....I would never join any group that opposes my 2nd Amendment rights, let alone one that supports taking my weapons or any other LAW ABIDING citizen's weapons away...GET THE PICTURE???......violent felons need not have any avenue to purchase guns....understand???SemperFi!



Why don't you re-read all of what you just posted and think it through? You make no sense, and you will NOT get any support of your positions here. Certainly not from me. I do not care to understand the background that led to your position on FTF private sales. All I care about the "shall not be infringed" part of the 2A.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 10:05:40 AM EDT
Forgive me if I sound as if I blame the sellers....I do not...I agree that if someone, who is prohibited from owning a weapon tries to buy one, THEY are the one breaking the law....NOT the seller....I don't want to close any "loopholes", I myself have purchased firearms through this method, and will probably sell some that way also...I also realize that no matter what laws are passed or repealed, felons will always find a way to get their hands on a weapon, if they intend to do harm....I have always felt that gun laws only hurt law abiding citizens, by making it harder to buy weapons when we have done nothing wrong to begin with....as far as "shall not be infringed", we are all born with the same rights...some people choose to do things that have their rights taken away...just my opinion...and if some of my opinions are left leaning, so be it...I was raised in a democratic family, and we have ALL owned weapons at some point or another...I do not ask for anyone's support on any issues or opinions I make, I don't recall being asked for my party affiliation before I joined AR15.....I just ask for the respect you all would like...believe me, and I have said it before...MY POLITICAL VIEWS ARE CHANGING NOW THAT I AM A GUN OWNER....and I think most democrats are indeed WAY OUT in LEFT field, when it comes to what's good for America.....be patient fellow members, the tranformation will take time. Again, thanks for all your input.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 10:28:47 AM EDT
JarheadPatriot, please take this in the spirit in which it is offered. Next time you decide to post on what is, to you, an emotional issue, stop. Write whatever you want, then DO NOT hit the "reply" or "post" button. Walk away from the computer and do something that takes your mind off the issue. Come back later after calming down and re-read what you wrote. Then ask yourself if it makes sense, is offensive, or is it even what you intended to convey.

Nine times out of ten you will then end up editing what you wrote, or even deleting it completely and starting over.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 11:18:49 AM EDT
Thank you SWO....I will indeed try that.........I meant no offense to anyone.......SemperFI!
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:21:33 PM EDT
Im not one to tout my political affiliation but I dont understand how someone can be pro-gun and democrat at the same time. All one needs to do is go to any major city to see the affects more gun control and more social programs.

Debate is good and makes us really think about core beliefs. Dont be intimidated here so much that it shuts you up and makes you stop thinking. Just be aware that there arent too many here that support more restrictions on firearms.

I look forward to shooting with you some time Jarhead even if your a donkey
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:05:48 PM EDT
There are a few ways to insure that a convicted felon NEVER has the ability to purchase a firearm again.

1. Keep the dirtbag in prision for life. (expensive)

2. Execute the dirtbag. ( much cheaper, I'll gladly buy and deliver the bullet)
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:33:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
but I dont understand how someone can be pro-gun and democrat at the same time.



Your still a young feller. It takes time and observation.
Eventually, you'll see that both parties are pretty fucked up, and you shouldn't trust either one.


Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:15:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JEC:

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
but I dont understand how someone can be pro-gun and democrat at the same time.



Your still a young feller. It takes time and observation.
Eventually, you'll see that both parties are pretty fucked up, and you shouldn't trust either one.






Iam young but do understand corruption knows no bounds. There are some big distinctions between the two though.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:26:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 3:20:30 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By JEC:

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
but I dont understand how someone can be pro-gun and democrat at the same time.



Your still a young feller. It takes time and observation.
Eventually, you'll see that both parties are pretty fucked up, and you shouldn't trust either one.




I am not that young (40 ish) and I do know that both parties are dysfunctional to some degree.

But JME is 100% spot on in that there are MAJOR policy and philosophy distinctions between asses and pachyderms. And any way you slice it, it is FAR easier to control the Republicans when it comes to many of the issues important to me.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 2:16:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By JEC:

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
but I dont understand how someone can be pro-gun and democrat at the same time.



Your still a young feller. It takes time and observation.
Eventually, you'll see that both parties are pretty fucked up, and you shouldn't trust either one.




I am not that young (40 ish) and I do know that both parties are dysfunctional to some degree.

But JME is 100% sport on in that there are MAJOR policy and philosophy disticntions between asses and pachyderms. And any way you slice it, it is FAR easier to control the Republicans when it comes to many of the issues important to me.



Yep.

We don't have many friends and the Republicans aren't particularly good friends of ours, but they are the only "friends" we have with the poltical power to help safeguard our rights.

I've said it many times before: We don't get the luxury of choosing our enimies. That means we need to do whatever we can to ensure our friends get elected and understand that we elect them to protect our rights.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:37:25 PM EDT
Well it is time for me to weigh in on this convuluted post. It is a realitvely new concept that denies felons their Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Federal issue upon release of prisoners was a Horse, saddle, feed, pistol and twenty dollars. It flies in the face of the concept of rehabilitation ( the Idea that there is hope for someone to return to their place society from a life of crime ) that we now deny felons various constitutional rights yet allow them other rights afforded under the constitution. Example: A felon may not vote, posess firearms, and foregoes his 4th ammendment rights for the duration of his parole or probation. However a felon can freely excercise his other rights freely. Some will try to justify this by calling it punishment however it is infact a life sentance for many one time felons . Now there is also no constitutional basis for the denial of second ammendment rights to someone convicted of domestic violence however this is now law because congress dreams up this stuff puts it on the books and it dosent get challanged or judged aginst the constitution before it is passed. Why? Even though the congress is sworn to uphold the constitution they really dont care. It is like a pass the buck situation where they can let the courts sort out the mess they create and unless you have alot of money to challange a law in court we just live with it. The felon label tends to overshadow the American Citizen title. You must keep in mind that not all felonys are violent crimes . PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST!
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:28:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Night_Vision_AR-15:
Well it is time for me to weigh in on this convuluted post. It is a realitvely new concept that denies felons their Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Federal issue upon release of prisoners was a Horse, saddle, feed, pistol and twenty dollars. It flies in the face of the concept of rehabilitation ( the Idea that there is hope for someone to return to their place society from a life of crime ) that we now deny felons various constitutional rights yet allow them other rights afforded under the constitution. Example: A felon may not vote, posess firearms, and foregoes his 4th ammendment rights for the duration of his parole or probation. However a felon can freely excercise his other rights freely. Some will try to justify this by calling it punishment however it is infact a life sentance for many one time felons . Now there is also no constitutional basis for the denial of second ammendment rights to someone convicted of domestic violence however this is now law because congress dreams up this stuff puts it on the books and it dosent get challanged or judged aginst the constitution before it is passed. Why? Even though the congress is sworn to uphold the constitution they really dont care. It is like a pass the buck situation where they can let the courts sort out the mess they create and unless you have alot of money to challange a law in court we just live with it. The felon label tends to overshadow the American Citizen title. You must keep in mind that not all felonys are violent crimes . PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST!



I believe I said in my last post that I don't feel all felonies should ban one from owning a firearm. I agree with the other members that both parties are screwed up, yet, the GOP does indeed support our 2nd Amendment rights way more then the kooks on the left.....I am sorry for getting this post so far off track with my comment....and I had a good time at the gun show I went to,I will go to more, most certainly....and I hope MillerTime goes to one or several also......and I hope to do some shooting with some of you folks also......we are all brothers WITH arms.....lol...
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:15:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 5:18:00 AM EDT by car15man]
hey It's all good Jarhead!
We all love this hobby for our own reasons, and we all have our own views....but we'll all jump up off our asses grab the brass and run for the door when it's time to SHOOT

No matter your views I'll project hot,flaming, mettalic chunks, downrange with you anytime

At the range, there's no time for political discussion. All you'll hear out of me is "Keep it in the 10 ring, Bro"....."Keep it in the 10 ring"

Next Berea or Medina show, I'll buy you a $4.00 hot dog and $ 1.00 CAN of pop....lol
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 9:02:48 AM EDT
Gun rights are a major issue for me when I vote. If Hillary Clinton promised to repeal the 86 MG ban and not go after AW's I would vote for her. Sadly you wont find a handful of democrat politicians who stand up for your right to duck hunt bear arms.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:07:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
Gun rights are a major issue for me when I vote. If Hillary Clinton promised to repeal the 86 MG ban and not go after AW's I would vote for her. Sadly you wont find a handful of democrat politicians who stand up for your right to duck hunt bear arms.


I'd like to see her repeal a few other, less dramatic gun laws before I believed anything she promised.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:18:07 AM EDT
Owning,bearing,using firearms is NOT a "hobby" with me ...it is a way of life. It is a way of life that comes with being born in the greatest Country in the World.


Accept no substitutes.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:51:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 7:56:57 PM EDT by MillerTime85]
Well, since this thread no longer has anything to do with gun shows, I might as well put in my 2 cents. What I think is kind of messed up is how people can lose their right to own firearms as a result of crimes whose nature wasnt violent at all. I have a friend who can never own a firearm legally simply because he got caught with some drugs, and got a strict judge. Ya, he likes to smoke the reefer once in a while, but that doesn't make him a violent person that cannot be trusted with a firearm. If someone is convicted of a crime involving a firearm, then definately by all means, take their rights away.. But with the way it is now, people have their gun rights stripped and have never hurt anyone in their lives. Oh and go ahead and vote for Hilary, I guarentee you she will reinstate a new AWB, making it illegal for us to get new weapons, and nearly impossible and expensive to get parts for our aks/ars. I actually hope hilary becomes the democratic nominee in 2008, because it will guarentee a republican victory, I believe it as 52 percent or something like that of American Voters said they would never vote for Hilary no matter what she said or did.

Here is where she stands on the issues, and since this is the ak47.net boards, here is where she stands with gun control.

Hillary Clinton on Gun Control
Click here for 9 full quotes on Gun Control OR other political leaders on Gun Control.
Keep guns away from people who shouldn’t have them. (Sep 2000)
Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs. (Sep 2000)
License and register all handgun sales. (Jun 2000)
Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands. (Jul 1999)
Gun control protects our children. (Jul 1999)
Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation. (Jul 1999)
Lock up guns; store ammo separately. (Jun 1999)
Ban kids’ unsupervised access to guns. (Jun 1999)
Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)

yep, if she becomes president, kiss em goodbye.. www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:36:17 AM EDT
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