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Posted: 1/11/2006 12:04:16 PM EDT
dont want to say there name yet, they are in cuyahoga county.

ATF came in and inspected there forms.. out of 600 they looked at , they found 16 errors, all the errors were from when a employe who no longer works there,,

they have revoked his FFL as of 12/26/05, he can sell what he has in stock, but cant order anything new i guess.. he had 4 yers left till he could retire...

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:10:05 PM EDT
I agree it sucks, and it's happened to many a shop - but there is an underlying message - if your name is on that 01 license, then YOU better make sure that the paper work is flawless. It should be double checked and never left to an employee.

The same thing happened to the former owners of Buckeye Outdoors, irregularities on the forms and it was an employee stealing shit - but the ATF doesn't care.

You can't trust people. If you want to keep your business, and it's an FFL, you better never leave the forms to someone else.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:12:41 PM EDT
He can't even have it arbitrated???? I'd contact the NRA-ILA .I've heard of similar things where the errors were so small it was just a fine+ plus a probationary period,and of others where they've sold to known felons and just got fined.
That is total B.S. and wish him the best of luck.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:18:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By predator611:
He can't even have it arbitrated???? I'd contact the NRA-ILA .I've heard of similar things where the errors were so small it was just a fine+ plus a probationary period,and of others where they've sold to known felons and just got fined.
That is total B.S. and wish him the best of luck.



I agree, he might want to get some free lawyering from the ILA.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 12:29:48 AM EDT
It isn't the one with the nice old guy that runs it and the ionic breeze stick cleaner that has never been cleaned off is it?????? on the west side???
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:11:05 AM EDT
Although I'm never happy to hear of a gun shop closing, I was sort of hoping you were referring to GunSport! That guy is the rudest, grumpiest businessman I've ever met.

Cincylance

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:38:28 AM EDT
Are you referring to Gunsport! in Centerville (Montgomery County)...It sounds like it from the description...

I could say a lot of things, but I won't ....I'll leave it at this:

We have known him since way before Gunsport....all the way back to the GM days and I would never go in there if it wasn't for the fact I find you can get better prices there than almost anywhere.....

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 12:30:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 12:31:24 PM EDT by Ring]

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
It isn't the one with the nice old guy that runs it and the ionic breeze stick cleaner that has never been cleaned off is it?????? on the west side???



ya, the parma gun shope

the ILA only gave him numbers for local lawers..
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:47:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 6:53:37 AM EDT by GaryV311]
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 7:07:54 AM EDT
Frank the owner of the gun shop is one of the nicest most knowledgeable people you will ever meet in this industry! It is a sad F*#$IN day when guys like this get run out because of minor mistakes.
My family has been buying guns and having smitty work done by him for 30 F*@%$IN years.
We were just sitting and talking about this, and you know..He said one of the few mistakes...and I mean few, We are talking about 16 mistakes in over 27 years..Thats like .012 mistakes if you compare to number of transactions.. was that a customer did not disclose his dishonorable discharge.........................I mean come the F**K on. Not selling to fellons or anything like that.
It is a sad F***IN day in Parma heights.
For those who have never been there.. we are talking about a pull up a chair, have some coffee and pastry, smoke a cigar kind of place. The guy really cares for his customers.I can't tell you how many times I just grabbed ammo, guns, supplies, anything, and just walked out the store, with him saying pay me when ever you wan't....That kind of guy.
Don't get your hopes up of ever having another guy like this around. Now we have to deal with the midget and the fat man at B&T or some bussiness atmosphere shit hole now!

We will miss the gun shop
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 7:27:04 AM EDT
I had them work a 4 of my guns. They only charged me for one! I have spent an hour there, sitting at the counter, smoking a cig, and just listening to and learning from people exchanging their countless wisdom. They are only 3 minutes from my home. I will miss them dearly.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 7:47:02 AM EDT
he is "seeing what he can do" to stay in bussness... hes going to have his wife apply for a ffl and it would be in her name..
if that works, he "may" be ok..
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 7:52:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ring:
he is "seeing what he can do" to stay in bussness... hes going to have his wife apply for a ffl and it would be in her name..
if that works, he "may" be ok..



God I hope so!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:56:15 PM EDT
I hope all works out with him every gun I have ever own have come out of that shop. It was also 3 min from my house when I was gv311's roommate. I moved to toledo but would have driven back to cleveland to buy anything there.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:58:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By car15man:
Frank the owner of the gun shop is one of the nicest most knowledgeable people you will ever meet in this industry! It is a sad F*#$IN day when guys like this get run out because of minor mistakes.
My family has been buying guns and having smitty work done by him for 30 F*@%$IN years.
We were just sitting and talking about this, and you know..He said one of the few mistakes...and I mean few, We are talking about 16 mistakes in over 27 years..Thats like .012 mistakes if you compare to number of transactions.. was that a customer did not disclose his dishonorable discharge.........................I mean come the F**K on. Not selling to fellons or anything like that.
It is a sad F***IN day in Parma heights.
For those who have never been there.. we are talking about a pull up a chair, have some coffee and pastry, smoke a cigar kind of place. The guy really cares for his customers.I can't tell you how many times I just grabbed ammo, guns, supplies, anything, and just walked out the store, with him saying pay me when ever you wan't....That kind of guy.
Don't get your hopes up of ever having another guy like this around. Now we have to deal with the midget and the fat man at B&T or some bussiness atmosphere shit hole now!

We will miss the gun shophr



I don't know how much great information I have learned just hanging out in that shop. This is a really sad day. How does one go about getting a FFL, I'll take over the store if his wife can't do it, I'll hire him on the spot, general manager... what do ya think
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:25:32 PM EDT
Hey gurgle...Thats the same idea just about all of us had!
I just got back from hangin out with frank, and hes staying upbeat about it at least. We have a good friend who is a customs agent, and he set up a meeting for Frank with one of the guys he works with..I guess a lawyer. Again if all else fails, his wife is applying, but even if that works out there will still be that lapse in time cuz it takes about 3 months for the license process to complete. The problem now is all of his contracts with companies, his lease on the building,..things like that. Theres not too much any of us could do to help, but to all of us who care, are being encouraged to write letters to our congressman about it.
It's the point of how unfair it is. I guess there are plenty of other stores or companies, making more mistakes and grabbin' fines and probationary periods. It's just not fair.
Despite of how all of us feel about the loss, the truth is the economy of our little city suffers too. With all of the empty storefronts in the strips up and down Pearl, do we need another empty?
Not to mention thru taxes and contributions, the store brings the city an average of 40,000 dollars a year.

I encourage anyone with advice or knowledge of the situation to speek up, cuz maybe there are other things that can be done. Frank is not getting much help from any of the proper channels, and ILA just basically gave him a phone number for an expensive lawyer.
For all of us that know frank, and feel helpless about this, he encourages us to try small things like letters, and maybe he can at least get a hearing to try to explain his side of it.
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