I was told today that I cannot sell a handgun to a Toledo resident unless they have a Toledo Handgun owners card.  The definition  of  “Toledo Resident” is the  address on the Drivers License.  So – If someone lives in Sylvania TWP (Toledo mailing address on Drivers License), I’m not allowed to sell them a handgun, if someone lives in Ottawa Hills(Toledo mailing address on Drivers License) – I cannot sell them a handgun?

I have MANY honest. law abiding customers, who moved into the Townships because of Toledo laws.

549.11. Handgun transfer restrictions.     (a) No person in this City shall purchase or otherwise obtain ownership or possession of, or as security for a loan, any handgun from any person unless the transferor exhibits a handgun owner's identification card valid on its face, issued to the transferor pursuant to Section 549.09, or unless the transferor exhibits evidence that he is exempt from the requirement of an identification card pursuant to Section 549.10. (b) No person in this City shall sell, deliver, transfer or furnish any handgun to any person in this City, unless the transferee exhibits a handgun owner's identification card valid on its face and issued to the transferee pursuant to Section 549.09, or unless the transferee exhibits evidence that he is exempt from the requirement of an identification card pursuant to Section 549.10

“In this City” – I’m not “in the city” of Toledo.  I have customers who live in Toledo but legally carry concealed handguns at their place of business – which is outside Toledo, so the handguns never even go into the city.  


During my last inspection 3 years ago, and from other conversations, the "in the city" meant "in the city", and its not my responsibility that my customers choose to obey the laws of the city in which they live.  It is the customers responsibility to apply for, and receive a Toledo Handgun Owners Card if they decide to take the handgun "into the city".  

Quoted: I heard about this several years ago from another dealer.

Where was this dealer located? If that dealer was in Toledo, he would need to see card if selling to a Toledo resident.

My concern is, if they can get away with this today, will they tell me tomorrow, that I'm not allowed to sell anyone with a Toledo address an AR because of the Toledo AWB?

NO official from "Toledo" is telling me I have to do this.  I was told this by my ATF inspector.  Had a city official from Toledo come in here and told me to not sell to Toledo residents without a card, I would have told him to kiss my ass.

With the ATF telling me what to do, I cant really argue too much.  I know they are wrong,  but if they choose to set me up, and catch me selling to a Toledo resident, I'm screwed.  I'm sure if it went to court I would win, but I dont have the money to take it to court, or to close up shop while I'm fighting it.

If anyone wants to offer some free legal advice great

As it stands, the last email exchanged read:

XXX was correct when she told you that you need to abide by State and local laws when selling a firearm and review the Toledo handgun owners card.

I dont know enough about law, but I dont see how the "ATF" has the power to determine that "local laws" from a different city apply to me and my customers.


I have been informed their legal council is working on getting my quesions answered as to how this can possibly be legal.  

WTF???  It seems to me that you ARE abiding by the local laws.  In this case, the local law simply does not apply to you. Unless you KNOW that the customer is in violation a local ordinance, I can't see where it is your problem. It should be a "Don't ask - Don't tell" situation.

How does the ATF propose that you verify the residency status of your customers?

Would having the customer sign some sort of 'waiver' release you from this supposed liability? (In the eyes of the ATF.)

What is the penalty for this alleged 'violation'?

Would you expose yourself to possible legal action if you denied a sale to someone with a Toledo address who doesn't reside in the city?  

How did this issue come up in the first place?

Quoted: WTF???  It seems to me that you ARE abiding by the local laws.  In this case, the local law simply does not apply to you. Unless you KNOW that the customer is in violation a local ordinance, I can't see where it is your problem. It should be a "Don't ask - Don't tell" situation.

That is correct, and how I and every other dealer in NW OH has been operating since Toledo started the "card" requirement for "Toledo" residents.

How does the ATF propose that you verify the residency status of your customers?

Drivers license, hense the added layer of bullshit for non Toledo residents with Toledo mailing addresses.

Would having the customer sign some sort of 'waiver' release you from this supposed liability? (In the eyes of the ATF.)

No thats bullshit. If I trust they answered the questions on the 4473 honestly, why would I think they are going to do anyting illeagle?   I'm responsible for the sale/transfer.  If they take the handgun into Toledo without a card, I'm no more responsible for that than if they take it to Michigan and shoot their ex-wife.

What is the penalty for this alleged 'violation'?

There is no definition for the penalty, the rule doesnt exist. To have an FFL, I am agreeing to obey all state and local laws.  It may take a judge to determine that the next city over is not "local" to Sylvania.

Would you expose yourself to possible legal action if you denied a sale to someone with a Toledo address who doesn't reside in the city?

fictional story - Jill lives in Ottawa Hills and is being stalked by her ex-husband who has threatened to kill her. She has applied for, and received an emergency CCW from the Lucas County Sheriff.  She comes to my shop, wanting to legally purchase a handgun for self defense.  I deny her, her Second Amendment right because she has a Toledo address on her drivers license, and doesnt have a Toledo handgun owners card.  When she gets home, her ex-is waiting for her and beats her to death with a 9 iron.
what happens next?

How did this issue come up in the first place?

I'm getting a new FFL, and part of that process is an inspection.

I found this here: www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a1

(F1) Does the Federal Firearms Law require licensees to comply with state laws and local published ordinances which are relevant to the enforcement of the GCA? Yes. It is unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver any firearm or ammunition to any person if the person's purchase or possession would be in violation of any state law or local published ordinance applicable at the place of sale or delivery. (See Question A2 for requirement to comply with state and local law to qualify for a license.) [18 U. S. C. 922( b)( 2), 27 CFR 178.99( b)( 2)]

Seems pretty black and white to me. I'm not in Toledo.

i was the MGR of a gun shop 15min S of cleveland..

Yeah, Route 82 is 15 miles from Public Square!

-- Chuck