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Page Hometown » Ohio
Posted: 6/17/2003 8:56:27 AM EDT
I just heard a report on WTAM (in Cleveland) about the Senate passing something...

I have been looking online, but have been unable to find anything current to 12:45pm, right now...

Anyone?
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:42:06 AM EDT
I have not heard anything...I am sure it will be here - if there is news:

www.ofcc.net

Link Posted: 6/17/2003 10:19:10 AM EDT
Today was the Judiciary Committee on Criminal Justice's 7th hearing on the proposal.

Fortunately, the vice chair of the JCCJ is my State Senator Jim Jordan and I have ready access to his office. Just got off the phone with his staff and HB 12 is DOA in the Committee. The senate is voting on it as I type this.

The committee bastardized it so bad in an effort to throw in all sorts of gun control language that it's not going to pass on the floor. The NRA dropped their support for it within the past hour.

Jordan is pissed at the committee and is voting against the proposed bill as it stands because he believes it's too much of a compromise.

The only hope to resurrect it as HB 12 is to call a Conference Committee between the House and Senate to try and work out language for a compromised bill between the two legislative bodies. If that looks too bad, then it's back to the beginning in the House. There's still enough time this year to make it happen if they get on it.

The Ohio Supreme Court is under no duress to rule, as they have no time constraints.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 10:22:48 AM EDT
Just got this off the OFCC site. The open carry in a vehicle part does not make sense to me. Also the part about occupants having to be 18, WTF???

***

In a surprise move, the Ohio Senate Judiciary Committee on Criminal Justice today passed an amended House Bill 12 today on a 6-0 vote (Senators Stivers, Schuring and Goodman were not present at the time of the vote).

Initially, it was reported that the Ohio Senate planned to follow up with an almost immediate floor vote today. That appears now not to be the case.

The amended bill is, in almost all respects, identical to the one passed by the Senate last December, and for which the Ohio House refused to reconvene for a vote of concurrence. The only significant difference is that license-holders would be allowed to "open" carry their firearms in their personal vehicles, IF no occupants are under 18. If they are under 18, the firearm must be in a locked container.

We are disappointed that as a result of the changes in the Senate committee, parents will not be allowed to protect and defend their children's lives. We are also disappointed that the Senate, in spite of newly released data indicating that Ohio's violent crime rates are increasing while the nation's is falling, chose to accept suggestions from Gov. Taft which will result in more victimization. We are glad that HB12 is still a shall-issue bill, and we will be reviewing the specific language before we announce our position.

Ohioans For Concealed Carry has acquired a copy of Sub HB12 as passed by the Senate Committee and will be updating our various mailing lists and website(s) throughout the evening today.

Electronic copies of this legislation may be available later tonight or tomorrow morning on our website. Details to follow.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 10:32:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 10:32:21 AM EDT by BenDover]
I am glad they are delaying the vote. Tom Simmons in Jim Jordan's office indicated that they were going to indeed vote on it and most certainly Jordan was going to vote against it. Apparently the original draft that was kicked around before the 6-0 vote was so bad that they wanted to get something to the floor.

It's not going to pass as the language reads.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 1:12:49 PM EDT
This whole situation is very frustrating. I think I need to do more, not sure what, but this is depressing.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 3:26:57 PM EDT
Taft now supports the current senate version. Here is my guess on reconcilliation. They will make in auto, open carry as reccomended. The will ditch the stuff about kids under 18 in the car or modify it to say kids under 18 who are not immediate family members or something like that. The bill will then pass and be signed.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 4:46:29 PM EDT
At this late stage, I'm willing to hold out for a realistic package rather than a bill with some anti's add ons.
Thanks for the updates Ben.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 4:28:54 AM EDT
The WHOLE BILL is CRAP! Call your elected monkeys and tell them to kill it.

NRA Pers. Protection does not satisfy the training requirement.

Re-certifying is the same as the first time application.

You have to be fingerprinted EVERY TIME YOU APPLY OR RE_APPLY.

YO WILL BE ASSSIGNED A NUMBER AND ENTERED INTO A 'POLICE DATABASE.'

BULL Fucking SHIT!
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 4:59:48 AM EDT
Here's a link to the PDF file of the Bill from the OFCC website: www.ohioccw.org/files/125HB12RSY.pdf

It's 126 pages, but it's worth the read. It's garbage.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:16:34 AM EDT
Good luck guys!
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:50:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 7:46:39 AM EDT
According to what I have read, protecting your family will not be an option. If you can't have a gun accessible in the car if occupants are under 18, then what is the point. Now, carjackers will look for cars with kids in them.

When my family visits Ohio (3-4 times per year), I always drive up from Georgia with a loaded weapon. I am legal in Tennessee and Kentucky, but I become a criminal when I cross the Ohio River.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 8:36:24 AM EDT
HB12, as approved by the Ohio Senate Judiciary Committee on Criminal Justice is crapola...

Looks like another case of 'so close, yet so far'...
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:00:19 PM EDT
The bill passed the Senate tonight. It was however mentioned that there are likely to be a few more changes before it reaches the governors desk.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 6:09:57 PM EDT
Let's keep in mind that many states started with very restrictive CCW laws. Then after the public became comfortable with concealed weapons, the laws were refined to better suit the issues of self-defense.

Due to the current political climate in Ohio, this is probably the best compromise we could hope for - for now. At this point, I could personally accept a flawed law with an aim to refine it later.

I will say it again:
You're not going to march into any capitol building or statehouse with the Constitution in one hand and the Bible in the other, and instantly turn back 90 years of gun control laws. Our rights were taken from us slowly, we must work slowly (and methodically) to regain them.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:05:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:
Let's keep in mind that many states started with very restrictive CCW laws. Then after the public became comfortable with concealed weapons, the laws were refined to better suit the issues of self-defense.

Due to the current political climate in Ohio, this is probably the best compromise we could hope for - for now. At this point, I could personally accept a flawed law with an aim to refine it later.

I will say it again:
You're not going to march into any capitol building or statehouse with the Constitution in one hand and the Bible in the other, and instantly turn back 90 years of gun control laws. Our rights were taken from us slowly, we must work slowly (and methodically) to regain them.



Very true....frustrating but true the guys at work were jumping up a down about it passing.But I knew if Taft/OSP liked it it was crap.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:04:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
The bill passed the Senate tonight. It was however mentioned that there are likely to be a few more changes before it reaches the governors desk.



As I understand it, the Bill has to go back to the House for a reaffirmation vote before it goes to Taft's office.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:19:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:
I will say it again:
You're not going to march into any capitol building or statehouse with the Constitution in one hand and the Bible in the other, and instantly turn back 90 years of gun control laws. Our rights were taken from us slowly, we must work slowly (and methodically) to regain them.



Very wise, Master Yoda...

BenDover, you are correct, the House has to work out the differences before Taft will get a chance to sign it.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:22:05 AM EDT
The only thing I see changing is the part about no guns in car with people under 18. That may be modified. Otherwise it will pass as is I would guess. It is not perfect, but it is a good beginning and the antis are fuming over this.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:24:18 AM EDT
So just how FUBAR is this bill? Is the under 18 in the vehicle thing one of the only FUBAR requirements, or are there many other ones? I realize I could read the 100+ page bill and answer my own questions, but I don't have the time this week. Just curious what else might have been tossed in at the last minute.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:10:06 AM EDT
Looks like the House has rejected the changes and should be forming the committee today to try to hash it out, maybe they'll get it.

The idea of a CCW but not in a vehicle is moronic. Pull the pistol out and put it in 'plain sight'??? Great just what I need as I roll into or out of work is to draw (leads to possible brandishing if the wrong person sees) and try to holster it in the vehicle (in a sitting position unless I'm outside and brandishing again)
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 4:11:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2003 4:14:54 AM EDT by killian]
Looks like we might have to wait until fall for any ccw. Dammit. Just a little from the ofcc web site. "STALLED UNTIL FALL: Although two news organizations are reporting that HB12 "appears to be dead", most others are suggesting that the legislative summer break will be used as a cool-down period , and that the matter will be readdressed when the General Assembly reconvenes."


www.ofcc.net
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 9:59:42 AM EDT
i am hoping and praying that you guys in ohio get the ccw nailed down, but rmember this, ven if at first the ccw is flawed in some way, it is better than nothing, and you can go back and get more revisions at a later date...

and remember....that is how the anti's do it, a little at a time, peice by piece, time to turn the tables
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