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Posted: 3/27/2006 6:20:41 PM EDT
I have a friend that would like to borrow my flats bending jig to bend some AK receivers from a Tapco flat. Prior to shipping the jig out to him, I wanted to find out what are some legal issues that I should be aware of. Can he legally bend flats into AK receivers in CA? I used to live out in Southern CA prior to moving to OH, but that was a while ago and things have changed.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:30:51 PM EDT
While owning an AK receiver in it of itself is not illegal (well as long as it's not a named assault weapon brand, which if it's home built it is not), he would be required to build the rifle in compliance with California law, ie: no pistol grip, or no gas system, or a pinned mag, etc. So the legality of him building them is that he would be doing nothing illegal with your jig, but it could be very easy for him to do something illegal afterwards. If he knows the laws well enough, which if he knows about manufacturing personal fireams I assume he would, then he should be ok.

So if he is a friend and you can trust him, go ahead and send him the jig, just be sure to remind him to follow all the laws, both on the state and federal level, and remind him that a Cali-legal AK is one of those sketchy areas and it's always best to err on the side of caution in these cases.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:33:49 PM EDT
Thanks Neo,

He actually is stationed out there for another year and a half to go, then he'll be transfering out to NC where is AK kits are waiting for him. He figured that he could get things ready for his builds by bending up some receivers.

Again, thanks for the reply.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:45:41 PM EDT
Ok, if that's the case he may want to reconsider.

While again it would be ok for him to build them, he may want to stray clear of owning a receiver that could be viewed as 'constructive intent'. Laws regarding ARs and Aks are currently under the eye glass right now, but soon things could change and make things better or worse for us. He may have them, and then in a year Cali-legal AKs could be reviewed and deemed illegal under any configuration and he could be in a world of trouble. If he wants to build them, he should build them and make them function in a configuration that is not an AW here and get rid of any parts that would change that (for example, make a build with no pistol grip and not own a pistol grip for it, even uninstalled). It would be like owning all the materials to make a bomb. Sure you could say you have them to make flares, or legal fireworks, or something like that; but others might view it differently; where as if he had built them up as flares there is no question his intentions was for flares.

So if he just wants to build them to get a jump start maybe he should go out there for a visit and build them, then leave them there with family or something.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 7:36:57 PM EDT
Gawd, I feel sorry for you folks out there. That's kindda bizzaar, but I see your point. I'll inform him of these points and see what he wants to do. Thanks again for the reply.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:07:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 8:10:03 PM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:20:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
people are pouring into here faster than we can plow down the orange fields and plant $400,000 to $500,000 starter homes.



Don't even start on that. There are like 10 orange trees left in all of Redlands, and now there is talk of turning Oak Glen into a Civil War reenactment camprgound/amusement park.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:29:17 PM EDT
KnobCreek...

Your CA friend should NOT build AK receivers from flats (or open-magwell AR receivers from 80% forgings).

While not listed by make & model, there's a chance that noncommercial/homebrew AR/AK receivers might not have protection of Harrott decision (which says to be an AR or AK 'series' member it must be first specifically listed by make & model) since that's very impractical. If such is the case, these then could fall back into the Kasler category, where "an AR is an AR is an AR..." and "an AK is an AK is an AK..." - meaning illegal possession of an unreg'd assault weapon. We don't know how much or how little of a risk this is but it is a rational concern.

Any Californian that homebuilds a clone receiver when perfectly legal, readily available commercial ones are available is just plain silly, IMHO.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:08:47 AM EDT
Bill is right. He can legally buy offlist receivers.

RANT ON:
Paul is right, the real estate market here is crazy/stupid. Its fine for those who were able to buy property years ago. The rest of us are F***ed...my fiance and I make over $100kyr and cannot buy a house (without making Top Ramen our primary source of calories). The weather is great in places, but I doubt you live in Tulare or Ridgecrest. There are endless outdoor pursuits, but most in SoCal are so busy on the weekends that its usually not worth it. So SoCal'ers all get in their cars and drive 2-7 hours to go places on the weekend. The So Cal way of life is what is really stupid/crazy. I grew up there. I have lived in Boulder, Chico, Flagstaff, Sedona, and now in Mammoth Lakes. You couldn't pay me enough to move back to SoCal. The weather is not enuf.
RANT OFF
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:53:38 AM EDT
Did somebody say Ridgecrest? I make way less than $100k a year and own my own home in Ridgecrest...

Brian
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:59:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 11:00:35 AM EDT by bwiese]

Originally Posted By photog:
the real estate market here is crazy/stupid. Its fine for those who were able to buy property years ago. The rest of us are F***ed...my fiance and I make over $100kyr and cannot buy a house (without making Top Ramen our primary source of calories).



Um, your spending priorities just aren't right. You say "over $100K/yr" - so I'll say $112k just for giggles.

- $112K/yr = $9333/mo.
- Rule-of-thumb: 1/3 of your gross available for housing = $3111.
- $438K mortgage @ 6% ==> $2626/mo
- 1.18% prop tax on $438K => $430/mo
- insurance ($650/yr) ====> $54/mo
------------------------------------------------
............................TOTAL/mo: $3110/mo

Put aside a few bucks every month in interest-bearing account for rainy day.

Given deductibility the 'rent-equvalent' of the above #'s is somewhere around $1900ish (meaning you essentially take over $1000 (approx., in this instance here) from your income tax withholding and ship it to the mortgage company for interest instead.

For $9333/mo, take-home (w/personal deductions for two and mortgage interest, property tax, etc) you should have somewhere around $7500ish (plus or minus $200) take-home as you adjust your W4 for a much larger # of exemptions (and less withholding).

$7500-$3110 = $4390. Many people can thrive on this - budget, plan, save for rainy days, and it'll be OK.

If the area you like doesn't have decent single-family homes in that price range, get a nice townhouse. Just get something.

Drive cheaper and/or older cars - and eat in and you won't have to go Ramen.



Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:28:52 AM EDT
i rented an agi ak build dvd to see what it was like to build an ak.

some interesting things i saw.

agi is located in sacramento as per their dvd
the guy bent an ak receiever from a flat.
after the build was done he took it out for a shoot.
at the range you see the rifle has no pistol grip or other sb23 things.

if they had a license to build assault weapons i would think the pistol grip would be on it.
if the rifle build/shoot was out of state i would think the pistol grip would be on.
i don't think they would build an illegal assault weapon and distribute the dvd if they did something illegal.


***i would not build one*** but i think this shows how screwd up the laws and doj are right now.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:38:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By occaar:
agi is located in sacramento as per their dvd
the guy bent an ak receiever from a flat.
after the build was done he took it out for a shoot.
at the range you see the rifle has no pistol grip or other sb23 things.

if they had a license to build assault weapons i would think the pistol grip would be on it.
if the rifle build/shoot was out of state i would think the pistol grip would be on.
i don't think they would build an illegal assault weapon and distribute the dvd if they did something illegal.

***i would not build one*** but i think this shows how screwd up the laws and doj are right now.



Simple - he may not have thought about deeper implications of Harrott decision. Good chance that Harrott only offers protection to things that can rationally be listed.

There is in fact a DOJ letter on calgunlaws saying that a homebuilt AR (?) lower was OK as it wasn't listed. I don't think the DOJ writer thought of possible limits on Harrott, either.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:14:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By occaar:
i rented an agi ak build dvd to see what it was like to build an ak.

some interesting things i saw.

agi is located in sacramento as per their dvd
the guy bent an ak receiever from a flat.
after the build was done he took it out for a shoot.
at the range you see the rifle has no pistol grip or other sb23 things.

if they had a license to build assault weapons i would think the pistol grip would be on it.
if the rifle build/shoot was out of state i would think the pistol grip would be on.
i don't think they would build an illegal assault weapon and distribute the dvd if they did something illegal.


***i would not build one*** but i think this shows how screwd up the laws and doj are right now.



Could it possibly be that they have the proper paperwork to build and assemble AWs, but the person testing the firearm was not an agent for the company (ie. independant) or not the holder of the license and was unable to take posession of it in an AW configuration?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:10:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Don't feel too bad for us. It's been in the 70's here all week. I've made $100,000.00 a year for the last three years for sitting in my house, the real estate market is crazy. There are many more jobs then there are qualified people to work them so people are pouring into here faster than we can plow down the orange fields and plant $400,000 to $500,000 starter homes. There are tons of things to do here from deep sea fishing, four wheeling at Glamis, hunting, camping, concerts, boating, snow and water skiing, custom cars and racing ...

There is way more to life than pistol gripped firearms ... if that's the most important thing in life I feel sorry for you.



photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=34463



LOL... I LOVE IT!!! Saving this for future antburners.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:12:46 PM EDT
the builder/shooter is the gunsmith from agi. i think the owner. i believe the dvd is for rent somewhere on arfcom
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:47:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photog:
Bill is right. He can legally buy offlist receivers.

RANT ON:
.
.
There are endless outdoor pursuits, but most in SoCal are so busy on the weekends that its usually not worth it. So SoCal'ers all get in their cars and drive 2-7 hours to go places on the weekend. The So Cal way of life is what is really stupid/crazy. I grew up there. I have lived in Boulder, Chico, Flagstaff, Sedona, and now in Mammoth Lakes. You couldn't pay me enough to move back to SoCal. The weather is not enuf.
RANT OFF


Also remember the price of gasoline, it's like 20-30¢ per gallon higher than the rest of the USofA.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:49:19 AM EDT
I made about $70k, my Fiance made about $30. Thats about $110k. After tax and dedections (30% average) that was about 6500/mo. My Fiance had/has student loans of $150, carpayment $212, insurance $100, debt (prior living expenses while in college) $350. Then figure in gas, food, personal, medical bills, entertainment. I was saving 10% of my salary, about $700/mo, insurance, food, gas, etc etc. I figured I had about $5k/mo of spendable income. Since my fiance couldn't even help with rent at the time because of her debt and student loans, she was more of a hinderance than a help with the loan apps. My 800 credit score was a help, but the prices in ventura where i was living for a fixer uppper were running about 475-550k. that put payments at about 4150/mo (PITI). IF I has to make payments of $4k and only brought home $5k (don't forget fixing up the house), that put me a parking ticket away from running in the red. Not fun. Thats no way to live. Believe me I crunched th numbers MANY times and almost pulled the trigger on a house. I am so happy I didn't buy it, I would be in finacnial peril and hating the fact I could have no fun or have toys because my money was all going to the house payment. I didn't want to live beyond my means and have no fun. So when My fiance got a job offer here in Mammoth, I told her to go for it, and we got out of SoCal. While I will never be able to afford to buy here, but I ski 3-4 times a week, can go cycling, shoot trap 3 times amonth, fly fish, hike and still have a good job. I had so many people tell me to buy a house even though I couldn't afford it, but thats not the way I operate. The QUALITY of your life is way more important than what you own.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:50:49 AM EDT
Meanwhile all that money you pay in rent goes nowhere other than keeping a roof over your head.

A mortgage helps you build equity...first house I ever bought cost $36K...I sold it for over $150K.

When I bought a house and land in rural Calaveras County it was a stretch at $135K. I sold it last year for $318K. Bought alot of cool toys in Nevada with some of the profits! Can't wait till my last house in the Bay Area sells.

Profits from that one will launch my next business venture!

One thing good about California...the rate of return on your real estate.

Your rent can't possibly be that much less than a mortgage payment.



Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:52:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photog:
I made about $70k, my Fiance made about $30. Thats about $110k. After tax
and dedections (30% average) that was about 6500/mo.



You may (or may not) be overwithholding. Adjust your W4s so you don't get a refund from IRS & FTB. (Ballpark W.A.G - @ $110K, I think you should be a few hundred higher per month, closer to $7K.)

Furthermore, those #s of yours assume no mortgage & prop tax deduction. For the first decade of your loan, most of the payment is deductible interest. For $3100 principal + interest + tax, only around $400ish (avg) is principal for the first years (even after year 10, only $800 is principal).
So for the numbers I gave you in prior post, $2600 - $400 = $2200 deductible interest, with $430ish or so deductible property tax. So your notch down some tax brackets!!

When you adjust your withholding properly, that near-$7000 combined income will be closer to (exceeding!) $8000/mo since over 1/3 of your mtg payment will shift from IRS withholding to mortgage interest pmt. (Not sure on the spot here how extra SS tax for 2nd person in dual income setting, vs capped SS tax for single person, plays against 2nd exemption for 2nd person).

So, round numbers, your income will, combined be $8Kish/mo...


My Fiance had/has student loans of $150, carpayment $212, insurance $100, debt (prior living expenses while in college) $350. Then figure in gas, food, personal, medical bills, entertainment. I was saving 10% of my salary, about $700/mo, insurance, food, gas, etc etc.



Let's see...

$8000 - monthly income after W4 adjustment after mortgage.
-$3100 - mortgage principal, taxes, insurance on $430ish-K loan
- $150 - student loan
- $212 - fiance's car
- $100 - fiance's car insurance
- $350 - fiance debt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
$4088 take-home after mortgage and fiance's "former overhead" :)

Now, this doesn't reflect any 401K deductions, which are also pretax and can bring down your bracket even further.

Tighten down the expenditures (no new cars for awhile), you can do this.


I figured I had about $5k/mo of spendable income.


Well, you're getting hitched so it's about sharing. You still have $4K of income to work with after the mortgage, etc. Not that many 'big things' for you to spend on - just basics like electricity & water and food, which you were paying twice for before.


Since my fiance couldn't even help with rent at the time because of her debt and student loans, she was more of a hinderance than a help with the loan apps.


I assume that's improved a bit, she's got $30K of income/year as a contribution, with an upcoming reduced tax bracket. Remember you're applying combined. She would not be a hindrance unless she had really really crappy credit. Even then, with good credit from you and combined numbers above, the worst case would be a possible 1/4% hike in interest rate.


My 800 credit score was a help, but the prices in ventura where i was living for a fixer uppper were running about 475-550k. that put payments at about 4150/mo (PITI).


I was figuring $440K and was assuming you're putting something down. For $488K that's $48K - 10% - down. You should be able to do that.


I had so many people tell me to buy a house even though I couldn't afford it, but thats not the way I operate. The QUALITY of your life is way more important than what you own.


Um, buying a house is an enforced savings plan.

I'm kicking myself for not buying earlier.

You can't be saving much renting (you're saving a few hundred on payment, perhaps - but throwing the rest down the drain).

Bill Wiese
San Jose
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:25:07 PM EDT
Bill,
You make great points, It WAS do-able. I could have just barely got by, but the main thing was that I hated living in SoCal. I spent most of my youth in Ventura, and watched it turn into LA North. The traffic is out of control in Ventura/ Santa Barbara/LA. I know this because I drove about 500-600 miles a week for work (documented miles- and yes I got mileage). Once I realized that my house payment would be the vast majority or my paycheck, I gave up, and quit working all the extra hours to make that $70k. I just don't love SoCal, as many do; and those that do will never be swayed. When I would tell people how I thought LA was hell, people would look at me like I just shot their dog. I do not regret not buying, because I would still be living in the smog/traffic/heat. I had forgotten that I am supossed to live in the mountains. Moving here has made me MUCH more happy. I'll stay here for as long as we can afford it (we have cheap rent at $1600/mo) but since a 1bd condo at 700sq/ft is now over $500k and the least expensive SFH is around $650k, I won't be able to buy any time soon. I just work part time now, and enjoy life. I may have been too conservative with my housing investment, but I wantch too many people scrimp and save to make their mortgage payment every month. Its one thing do that for someplace you love, antother for someplace you hate. The only good things about SoCal was the surfing (in polluted water), the farmers markets for the organic food, and the sushi. (Yes I am a memeber of the Surfrider Foundation, and contributed regularly.) Cali is a very diverse place, and SoCal just ain't all that, IMO. Give me the Eastern Sierra any day, where we have no smog, blue skies, real weather, real people, and elbow room.What I meant was this place sucks and I can't wait to move back to LA.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:04:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 3:20:31 PM EDT by OregonForester]
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