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Posted: 3/21/2006 11:11:44 AM EDT
I live in a small apartment and after talking with a buddy, I started thinking that it may not be a bad idea to have a weapon ready. Let's be realistic, there is no way I'll be able to grab my keys, open my safe, choose a weapon and have it loaded and ready in a reasonable amount of time.

However, I'm a bit wary of just leaving a loaded weapon lying around as well. What do you guys do? Is it worth putting it in the safe and taking it out everytime I step outside to go to the market or something? There must be an easier yet safe way...
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:33:30 AM EDT
I keep my usp 40 under my bed locked in its case with the 2 magazines half full. The key is hidden where I can get to it fast. The rest I keep in a safe. I do not take it with me when I go to the market.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:16:19 PM EDT
Consider a small wall safe mounted to the 2x4s yet hidden for easy access.

One of these:
www.deansafe.com/pistol_safes_index.html
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:43:03 PM EDT
You should have your handgun loaded and in a holster on your belt when you are at home. If you don't take it with you to the store you can put it back in your safe for that trip. When you come home put it back in your holster. Fairly simple. I keep my rifle out and in the bedroom unloaded while at home. I keep a few magazines near it, but not in reach of my two children. I'll fight my way back to the rifle with my handgun if necessary.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:46:51 PM EDT
I stash a cheap 9mm in the house, fast to get to would take a while for a badguy to find it.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 1:59:44 PM EDT
I keep my 1911 out of sight but within a quater seconds reach. It has been there for several months and not one person has seen it, and that includes the brother whom I live with. It's got all three mags full on a holster so I can reach blindly and grab it all at once. It's got a mag in it, but nothing in the chamber. Pull back the slide and I have 21 rounds of .45 at my disposal. If I need more than that, then I am in trouble.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:56:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By taquito971:
You should have your handgun loaded and in a holster on your belt when you are at home. If you don't take it with you to the store you can put it back in your safe for that trip. When you come home put it back in your holster. Fairly simple. I keep my rifle out and in the bedroom unloaded while at home. I keep a few magazines near it, but not in reach of my two children. I'll fight my way back to the rifle with my handgun if necessary.

Brian



I think you need to move to a better neighborhood and quick. Nobody in my family sees a need to carry 24/7 and that includes 3 generations of LEO's in the LA area.

In my case the only thing not locked up and loaded is an 870, the handguns are either in the garage safe or bedroom gunvault. The Trapdoor Springfield isn't locked up either but it doesn't fit in the safe. Now if we got into some kind of situation where I was concerned about safety I would upgrade my and Ma Danby's condition of readiness appropriately. But day to day, it isn't necessary.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:16:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
In my case the only thing not locked up and loaded is an 870



So what do you do with it? Ideally I'd like to keep my Mossy loaded and unlocked, but all it takes is for me to be away from it 5 minutes and somebody could very easily be in my apartment pointing it at me.

Pistol in a holster would be a good idea except all there is between me and my neighbors/roomates is two sheets of drywall, one stray shot under stress can spell trouble versus a Mossy full of birdshot.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:18:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 7:19:40 PM EDT by tatsuosan1964]
Small locked gunbox mounted to the drawer in my nightstand with the below Sig P220R mounted with a Surefire P103, a spare magazine and a Surefire G2 to illuminate without pointing a pistol if necessary. Also have a second locked box mounted in the hallway closet with a Sig P226 in .40 S&W and a Surefire P60 light.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:53:29 PM EDT
what a beauty gun you have dude...

I gotta agree with you if you need more than 21 to ensure that your guy is somewhere that is not moveable ..
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:01:12 PM EDT
I keep my off duty glock 27 or my springfield 1911 in a holster on person or near by. The rest are in a safe. I know several people who do same. I live in a good neighborhood, so I really don't need to have them near me. But it's my god given right and it's the what if(s) you have to worry about.

Plus, the zombie hords can come from anywhere and anytime
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:35:06 PM EDT
Remington 870 in the closet unloaded of course, with ammo in the dresser.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 3:26:14 AM EDT
a 1911, BHP, or a HK P7M8 within arm's reach at all times. The rest are unloaded and in a safe.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:08:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By taquito971:
You should have your handgun loaded and in a holster on your belt when you are at home. If you don't take it with you to the store you can put it back in your safe for that trip. When you come home put it back in your holster. Fairly simple. I keep my rifle out and in the bedroom unloaded while at home. I keep a few magazines near it, but not in reach of my two children. I'll fight my way back to the rifle with my handgun if necessary.

Brian



I think you need to move to a better neighborhood and quick. Nobody in my family sees a need to carry 24/7 and that includes 3 generations of LEO's in the LA area.


You can kiss my ass. I feel the need to be able to protect my family from whatever I feel is a threat. Your opinion is different from mine. I'm not going to move because I fear anything. I don't live in fear, and I'm sure as heck not going to take your word for it that I don't need it. Where are you going to be if/when I do need it?

Brian
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:51:13 AM EDT
Full mag, unchambered Glock w/weaponlight sits on the middle shelf inside my safe.
The safe is unlocked whenever I'm home.
If I'm working late in the office on the other side of the house, the Glock usually comes with me.
When I go to bed it goes into my nightstand. In the morning it goes back in the safe.

I've been thinking of getting a lockbox for the nightstand.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:57:39 AM EDT
If you're worried about shooting through the floor or the ceiling (justifiably so) you might want to buy a .410 pump shotgun and keep it loaded with rocksalt or 2" birdshot shells. We who live in apartments and crowded urban areas must, I think, be responsible and realize that we don't have the luxury of sending heavy artillery downrange willy-nilly. Someone other than the perp could very well wind up with that 7.62mm NATO or .44 magnum slug between their eyes.

I personally have chosen not to have loaded firearms in the house. My place is so small that if I don't have time to load a magazine, it will be too late to do anything but run anyway. Some people think I am a bit paranoid about having a negligent discharge. I suspect these people have never had a ND or witnessed one.

Galland
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:21:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spoilerv2:
I keep my off duty glock 27 or my springfield 1911 in a holster on person or near by. The rest are in a safe. I know several people who do same. I live in a good neighborhood, so I really don't need to have them near me. But it's my god given right and it's the what if(s) you have to worry about.

Plus, the zombie hords can come from anywhere and anytimehr


Thank you for taking your life, and the lives of your family, as seriously as you do. I too live in a good neighborhood, but you never know what is behind the door. There has been times where dogs have been out, and I've worried about my son being in the vicinity. That's why I carry, for protection of my family. A gun is just a poor club if it isn't loaded, and completely useless locked in the safe.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:24:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By foogoo:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
In my case the only thing not locked up and loaded is an 870



So what do you do with it? Ideally I'd like to keep my Mossy loaded and unlocked, but all it takes is for me to be away from it 5 minutes and somebody could very easily be in my apartment pointing it at me.

Pistol in a holster would be a good idea except all there is between me and my neighbors/roomates is two sheets of drywall, one stray shot under stress can spell trouble versus a Mossy full of birdshot.



I think you'd be surprised to find what a 12ga round full of birdshot is capable of. If you and your roomate are on the same page you probably need to work out what each other's purpose is in case you plan to use this in defense of your life.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:28:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 6:34:22 PM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:53:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 7:07:45 PM EDT by taquito971]

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By taquito971:

You can kiss my ass. I feel the need to be able to protect my family from whatever I feel is a threat. Your opinion is different from mine. I'm not going to move because I fear anything. I don't live in fear, and I'm sure as heck not going to take your word for it that I don't need it. Where are you going to be if/when I do need it?

Brian



ht.
If you live in a shitty neighborhood then you get what you get. A gun in the hand ain't going to help your daughter in the alley down the street. Shooting someone even in a rightful shoot is a life changing event - it will bankrupt you finanacially and quite likely emotionally - those are the odds that you choose to play by living in the ghetto. Just where do you live anyways?

I lived in apartments for 15 years of my life while the USN dragged me up and down the west coast. Paying an extra $150 a month to live in a better location was worth every dime. I'm assuming you're going to arm your family as well.

A man who doesn't fear anything is a fool. A man who takes a pistol to crapper because he's preparing for a home invasion robbery needs his medications adjusted.

Putting my staff hat on lose the asshole attitude or I'll smite you. That's my opinion - we don't put up with crap like that in this forum. Especially from a Navy guy.



I don't live in the ghetto. I own a home, on a quiet street. If I lived in the ghetto I would feel differently about moving. I step out of my home not expecting to need a gun, which I why I carry a pistol. If I needed a gun, I would carry a rifle. Forgive my outburst, it truly bothers me when someone will tell you you don't need a gun, when they are as naive as the person I quoted appears to be. I don't fear nothing, I just don't let fear run my life. I'm a former boyscout, and "Be Prepared" sticks out just as much now, as it ever has. And I'm not a Navy guy...

Brian

Edited to add:
If you really want to know my AO PM me and I'll tell you. I'd rather not post that information publically. The picture you have in your member profile looks pretty much like my AO. CA is a big state though.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:57:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By taquito971:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By taquito971:
You should have your handgun loaded and in a holster on your belt when you are at home. If you don't take it with you to the store you can put it back in your safe for that trip. When you come home put it back in your holster. Fairly simple. I keep my rifle out and in the bedroom unloaded while at home. I keep a few magazines near it, but not in reach of my two children. I'll fight my way back to the rifle with my handgun if necessary.

Brian



I think you need to move to a better neighborhood and quick. Nobody in my family sees a need to carry 24/7 and that includes 3 generations of LEO's in the LA area.


You can kiss my ass. I feel the need to be able to protect my family from whatever I feel is a threat. Your opinion is different from mine. I'm not going to move because I fear anything. I don't live in fear, and I'm sure as heck not going to take your word for it that I don't need it. Where are you going to be if/when I do need it?

Brian



Sorry I don't like men. Take your propositions elsewhere.

BTW espousing birdshot is the quickest way to alert people that you don't know your butt from a hot rock. And you did that in only 10 posts . Way to hang noob. You don't live in fear and yet you feel a need to carry a gun in your house? With your rifle out with magazines nearby? You been watching way too much TV? Must be compensating for things. I'll bet your eyes are brown and it ain't genetic. That wasn't sarcastic, my first comment was. But your general level of maturity is showing. A little hostile are we?

And to answer the mature question, As far as where my 870 is, a more or less central location, extended tube loaded with alternating buck and slug, with a stock shell holder with 2 buck, 2 slugs and 2 birdshot. Chamber is empty, I can go with the buck which would be first out of the tube, slug if I think it's more appropriate or bird. The only time it's been moved to an immediate condition of readiness, the bird ended up in the chamber, as the first shot was likely either to be an attention getter up in the air. BTW bird in the air is extremely unlikely to harm anything coming down.

The house I live in and neighborhood is such that I can't conceive of a scenario where the use of a rifle would be necessary in a normal day to day environment. In other words nobody is going to immediately appear in my living room without sufficient warning of their presence allowing an adequatae upgrade in readiness.


The following excerpt of a story from an LA publication mentions a close relative, even he doesn't carry 24/7 = deleted

For anyone who has ever seen the nation’s worst housing projects, such as the now-destroyed, infamous Robert Taylor Homes on the South Side of Chicago, the projects in Watts look almost pleasant during a quick drive-through. They are not high-rise prisons like Robert Taylor, Cabrini Green or Rockwell Gardens, but rather two-story buildings with small patches of lawn in front of them. A closer look, however, reveals the poverty and aura of hopelessness.

The Los Angeles city attorney has imposed a gang injunction against the Bounty Hunters here that makes it a misdemeanor for any of them to be together, although it is impossible to enforce all the time. In part of the city attorney’s report, LAPD Officer Victor Ross, one of the most hated men in Nickerson Gardens, writes, "When gang members are stopped by law enforcement they will say that they are going to visit their grandmothers, but in fact they are just hanging out with a bunch of other gang members, drinking, using drugs, playing loud music, gambling, loitering to be hooks or lookouts. They are doing anything but visiting their grandmothers."

Officer Ross describes a few gang members, like Aubrey Anderson, known as "Lunatic" or simply "Tic." "He is feared in the sense that he is short-tempered and is seen as crazy enough to do anything. He is not afraid to commit violence to further the gang." Another one is Israel Jauregui, a.k.a. Izzy, who has a tattoo on his arm that says, "Kill or Be Killed." "He is a violent gang member who is not afraid to commit shootings or other violent acts for the gang." Izzy, it turns out, is in federal custody now, and attempts to contact Lunatic were unsuccessful, much to the delight of my family.

Of the three projects in Watts, Imperial Courts appears the most run-down. The blue and green buildings that house 490 units look tired. Trash is rampant, flowers are few, and packs of young men evil-eye every stranger.

Recently, on a spring afternoon at Imperial Courts Recreation Center, which has a shiny full-size basketball court, no one is in the gym. But the narrow streets are full of young men. No one wants to talk about the breakdown of the truce. The four most common responses are "I’m not from here," "I’m just visiting," "Fuck off" and "Talk to PJ Steve."

PJ Steve is Steven Myrick, a tall, well-built 39-year-old who’s been a Crip almost his entire life, did nine years for kidnapping, robbery and assault, and has 2-inch-tall letters, "P" and "J," tattooed on his throat.

When PJ Steve heard about the 1992 treaty, he had mixed emotions.

"I was locked up when the peace treaty happened, and I was confused about it for a while. I couldn’t get it," says PJ Steve. "But then you realize it was a move for the kids. Kids need a better way than the way we had it. But now you got kids going back to the same ways.

PJ Crip "Cornbread" chimes in that he doesn’t feel safe in Jordan Downs.

In Jordan Downs, a group of Grape Streeters talk about the breakdown of the treaty, and the future. "I didn’t really like the peace treaty anyway," says Scrap, 29. "If I kill you today, then one of your homies who’s like 11 or 12 now is gonna remember it, and when he gets older he’s gonna blow my head off. That’s what’s happening today."

There is some hope in Jordan Downs that the infamous Grape Street shot caller Wayne "Honcho" Day may soon be free after serving nine years in federal prison on drug distribution and conspiracy charges. Day, now 48, was sentenced to more than 19 years, but he successfully appealed on the basis that he was poorly represented, and a decision on whether to reduce his sentence will be made within a month or so, according to Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Terrell.

In a 1997 speech by Steven R. Wiley, then chief of the Violent Crimes and Major Offenders section of the FBI, Honcho was called "the Godfather of Watts." That’s a slight exaggeration, but when told that Honcho may be getting out of prison soon, both Kartoon and PJ Steve consider it good news.

"If Honcho was here, this wouldn’t be happening," says Kartoon.

Sitting on a wooden table near the closed Jordan Downs gymnasium on a fine spring afternoon as his friends prepare to barbecue and play baseball, Honcho’s nephew Kmond Day lays part of the blame for the violence on alcohol.

"Alcohol is not for peace," he says. "But some people drink cuz there’s nothing else to do. The reality is, if we have guys from our own hood who get high and we can’t control them here, how can we expect them to go to other hoods and not act stupid?"

But Kmond says most gang members don’t even know why they bang.

"A lot of so-called gang members could win Oscars. They’re acting like gang members. They’re doing the stuff gang members do — shooting, killing — but they don’t even know the whole purpose of representing the hood. If you ask them why they bang, they say, 'To represent the hood.' Represent what? There is no point in representing the hood. What’s the purpose? There is no purpose."

Many young kids gangbang out of fear, not fear of the other hoods but fear from guys from their own block.

"You got cats that’s killing cats from other projects, and the homies that are with them are afraid of them, so they try to impress their big homies," says Kmond. "But really, they are just scared. But they think it’s the only way to survive."


Making a difference: Gregory Thomas Photo by Gregory Bojorquez
Some in Jordan Downs complain bitterly about what they consider the rough tactics of one LAPD officer, deleted. They claim he harasses people and encourages the gang wars. "Mrakich is the Rafael Perez of Jordan Downs," says Daude Sherrills.

Captain Sergio Diaz says he has received several complaints about "an officer" in Jordan Downs, but nothing has been substantiated.

"While I can’t talk about personnel investigations, I will tell you, in the course of a criminal investigation earlier this year, we know from wiretaps that targets of these narcotics investigations encouraged each other to make complaints about a specific officer who they knew to be investigating them," Diaz says. "We checked them out and concluded he had done nothing wrong."

Attempts to interview deleted are rejected by the LAPD, but his commander laughs when told that many gang members spoke badly of the officer.

"We have a lot of bad things to say about Grape Street, too," says Captain Diaz. "They are killers, dope dealers and robbers. deleted and [Victor] Ross are very effective in the projects, and of course many people hate them, quite naturally."

Unlike some in the LAPD, Diaz praises the now-fallen peace treaty.

"There was a lot of skepticism in the department about the treaty, but I believe it made a significant difference in the violent-crime rate," says Diaz.

"Obviously, the truce thing was good in that people weren’t shooting each other. But now, unfortunately, that is over."

On the evening of April 9, Officers Oscar Ontiveros and Darren Stauffer, from Diaz’s Southeast Division, are involved in a shooting that kills Bounty Hunter Spencer "Fox" Johnson after, they say, he pointed an assault rifle at them near Bellhaven and 112th streets. Gang sources say Fox was on the lookout for a Grape Street attack at the time.

In the early-morning hours of May 9, another Bounty Hunter, Kemal Hutcherson, 24, is gunned down — not by police — on perhaps the most cruelly named street in the city, Success Avenue.

Like I said if you are that scared of things, moving might be best for you. anybody that lives in an area where he feels a need to be armed all the time in his house is not being fair to his kids. They deserve better, or do you at least let them play outside ?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 7:05:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By taquito971:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By taquito971:
You should have your handgun loaded and in a holster on your belt when you are at home. If you don't take it with you to the store you can put it back in your safe for that trip. When you come home put it back in your holster. Fairly simple. I keep my rifle out and in the bedroom unloaded while at home. I keep a few magazines near it, but not in reach of my two children. I'll fight my way back to the rifle with my handgun if necessary.

Brian



I think you need to move to a better neighborhood and quick. Nobody in my family sees a need to carry 24/7 and that includes 3 generations of LEO's in the LA area.


You can kiss my ass. I feel the need to be able to protect my family from whatever I feel is a threat. Your opinion is different from mine. I'm not going to move because I fear anything. I don't live in fear, and I'm sure as heck not going to take your word for it that I don't need it. Where are you going to be if/when I do need it?

Brian



Sorry I don't like men. Take your propositions elsewhere.

BTW espousing birdshot is the quickest way to alert people that you don't know your butt from a hot rock. And you did that in only 10 posts . Way to hang noob. You don't live in fear and yet you feel a need to carry a gun in your house? With your rifle out with magazines nearby? You been watching way too much TV? Must be compensating for things. I'll bet your eyes are brown and it ain't genetic. That wasn't sarcastic, my first comment was. But your general level of maturity is showing. A little hostile are we?

And to answer the mature question, As far as where my 870 is, a more or less central location, extended tube loaded with alternating buck and slug, with a stock shell holder with 2 buck, 2 slugs and 2 birdshot. Chamber is empty, I can go with the buck which would be first out of the tube, slug if I think it's more appropriate or bird. The only time it's been moved to an immediate condition of readiness, the bird ended up in the chamber, as the first shot was likely either to be an attention getter up in the air. BTW bird in the air is extremely unlikely to harm anything coming down.

The house I live in and neighborhood is such that I can't conceive of a scenario where the use of a rifle would be necessary in a normal day to day environment. In other words nobody is going to immediately appear in my living room without sufficient warning of their presence allowing an adequatae upgrade in readiness.

<Deleted story>

Like I said if you are that scared of things, moving might be best for you. anybody that lives in an area where he feels a need to be armed all the time in his house is not being fair to his kids. They deserve better, or do you at least let them play outside ?



As I mentioned in the above post (which was probably posted while you were typing your response) I made a few clarifications. Forgive my outburst, I find it odd that you feel that keeping an 870 is acceptable, but having a pistol on my hip is not. Regardless of how you feel, I feel that having a gun is a reasonable step to protecting my family. I don't live in fear, not that I'm not afraid of anything, only that I don't live in fear. If you feel that you will be ready, you are the only person you need to convince of that. I feel that having a pistol on my hip keeps me ready. We differ there. Just because your LEO friends don't feel I need a gun doesn't mean anything. Regardless of where I lived I would carry a gun. I feel it is my responsibility to myself, my family, my country, and God. If you feel differently that is fine. Just don't try and tell me that I don't need one and need to move. You don't know me, where I live, or who I am. And I don't know you. I won't make assertations as to what steps you need to make to protect yourself, if you dont' get it, that's fine. A shame, but fine with me. I just pray that you never have to look back on a situation and wish you had done something differently.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 7:21:34 PM EDT
I think what is trying to be pointed out is that there is a point that every person must draw for themselves where safety and comfort must be met. For example, would it be safer for me to walk around my house with my 870 in one hand loaded and chambered ready to fight every second I was awake? Sure it would be safer, but that sort of paranoia takes away from life and the lives of those who live with you, not to mention it brings an added danger into the house: a chambered weapon. Shit happens that you can't predict, there could be an earthquake and your pistol gets caught on something as you brace against the wall and all of a sudden a small shake turns into a great disaster. That being said, I will also say there is nothing wrong with wanting to carry a pistol, even at all times. I think this one comment everyone can agree on:

No where is safe, and anything can happen anywhere. But live your life, don't spend it looking for the fight.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 7:28:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
No where is safe, and anything can happen anywhere. But live your life, don't spend it looking for the fight.



Bingo.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:11:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 8:14:05 PM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:18:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By taquito971:
And I'm not a Navy guy...



No I'm the Navy guy hr


But you said that "we don't put up with crap like that in this forum. Especially from a Navy guy."

Oh well, doesn't matter, just want to make sure you all don't think I'm something I'm not is all!

Brian
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:09:10 PM EDT
You're the guy that flipped out over a bon mot. and where you read that my LEO relatives said you don't need to do it is beyond me. I just said they don't do it or feel any need to do it. And I'm sorry did I say anywhere that I carry the 870 with me? No I said it's stored in a central location. STORED. And no where did I say you didn't need one, I posited that in all the years and generations of LEOs in LA county NONE of them have ever felt any need to carry 24/7 and one who has currently earned the enmity of some of the biggest baddest gangstas.

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:28:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
You're the guy that flipped out over a bon mot. and where you read that my LEO relatives said you don't need to do it is beyond me. I just said they don't do it or feel any need to do it. And I'm sorry did I say anywhere that I carry the 870 with me? No I said it's stored in a central location. STORED. And no where did I say you didn't need one, I posited that in all the years and generations of LEOs in LA county NONE of them have ever felt any need to carry 24/7 and one who has currently earned the enmity of some of the biggest baddest gangstas.



I didn't say you carried your 870, I said I thought it was odd that having your 870 avaialable for use was acceptable, yet me carrying a pistol to be ready to use was not. If you feel that having your 870 stored out of your immediate reach and line of sight is an acceptable level of preparedness that is fine, you only hav to convince yourself of that. And lastly, I still don't care what your relatives think. I won't if you say it 3 more times. I still wouldn't if they lived next door, or even if they were my relatives, they obviously don't get it.

This entire thread has gone overboard because I suggested that a gentleman who asked what he could do to have a firearm ready for home defense. I suggested he carry his damned gun (Fine, I boldly stated it should be done regardless), and be done with it. It's simple, it's effective, and it will work. A small child can't take his gun without his knowing if it's on his hip, he won't be "leaving a loaded gun lying around" and it is perfectly legal. That is my point, and this is my last post on the subject. If you want to continue to argue with me, you can PM me. This bickering and other assorted BS isn't doing anyone any good.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:34:57 AM EDT
I missed a burglary in my house in Cerritos by probably a few minutes. When I arrived home from work in the evening, the perpetrators went through everything in the house.

We had just moved into the neighborhood. I didn't know my neighbors and vice versa.

They took their time. They went through my tax returns for SS numbers. They took some personal photographs. We lost some irreplaceable jewelry and some electronics. I felt that I was raped.

The neighborhood was a nice one, cul-de-sac. The LA county laison (not even PD) that responded to my 911 call took 3 hours to arrive on site.

We moved to a better neighborhood in Orange County but crime still exists. I now know all my neighbors. I know what they drive, their schedules, their cars, their children, their children's friends. I know the local patrol PD in my neighborhood. I talk to the patrol PD captain on a routine basis. I know the principals of the local schools and the mayor of the city and the congressman. My HOA has a private patrol. I report any truancy or graffiti. I photograph and run the VIN's of any car on the block that I can't identify and have them towed. I belong to the neighborhood watch. I vary my way home from work on a daily basis.

I have several surfire flashlights at arm's length, at least 2 cell phones charged at all times. The house has breakage, door, window and motion sensors.

Concerning firearms, a variety that employ 00 Buck, 45acp CORBON and 5.56 Hornady TAP...

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:22:11 PM EDT
OMG! I think this thread was orignally started in 1999, before the y2k bug scare and the eminent fall of westeren civilization. This horse has been dead for so long, it just squishes when its beaten. THWACK!
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:02:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:

Putting my staff hat on lose the asshole attitude or I'll smite you. That's my opinion - we don't put up with crap like that in this forum. Especially from a Navy guy.



I love Biblical type refererences to violence.

Personally, I'll side with the crowd on this one, I have one sig 226 and a Ruger Sp101 in a quick access wall safe where I watch TV, and a Glock .40, Benelli and AR in another wall safe in teh bedroom.

I like my stuff accessible, but only for "in case."

I don't go strapped at home.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 4:19:36 PM EDT
My brother tends to go out with his friends during the night, so I am usually home alone. If someone comes to the door, it won't be a friend or a family member without me knowing it. Under those VERY rare circumstances I will grab my pistol and put it in my belt,; once I find out who it is and that it's safe, it returns to it's hidden location. If my brother is home I generally don't do that, unless it is really late at night at which point neither of us are expecting anyone.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 4:30:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By taquito971:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By taquito971:
You should have your handgun loaded and in a holster on your belt when you are at home. If you don't take it with you to the store you can put it back in your safe for that trip. When you come home put it back in your holster. Fairly simple. I keep my rifle out and in the bedroom unloaded while at home. I keep a few magazines near it, but not in reach of my two children. I'll fight my way back to the rifle with my handgun if necessary.

Brian



I think you need to move to a better neighborhood and quick. Nobody in my family sees a need to carry 24/7 and that includes 3 generations of LEO's in the LA area.


You can kiss my ass. I feel the need to be able to protect my family from whatever I feel is a threat. Your opinion is different from mine. I'm not going to move because I fear anything. I don't live in fear, and I'm sure as heck not going to take your word for it that I don't need it. Where are you going to be if/when I do need it?

Brian



+1; my reaction to PaDanby's remark was the same as yours. What an arrogant person to presume that. Sure, we'll all just move and run away like a bunch of pussies instead of exercising our constitutional rights! That's the solution, yeah. whatever.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:42:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 8:52:37 PM EDT by tatsuosan1964]
For me, my condition of readiness depends on several factors. Just as the military has different levels of readiness with the DefCon system and Homeland Defense uses the color codes, I have different levels as well. Most of the time my weapons are locked up in the safe with the 2 handguns locked up in small lock boxes as previously stated earlier in this thread. I have a 5 year old and live in a nice quiet neighborhood in the Temecula/Murrieta area and I am more concerned about my safety on my hour drive to and from work from a vehicle accident than I am about having to defend the home against invaders. Last year there was a jail break at Riverside Counties Southwest jail which is about 2 miles from my house. 3 of the 4 escapees where caught but the one outstanding was originally being held for attempted murder. That night at home I wore a sidearm while in the house and when I went to bed that night, an AR15 with a 30 round mag went on the floor next to the nightstand. My wife thought that I was nuts but I was not going to be the one guy who thought that it couldn't happen to me and then find out later that my house was the one that the badguy had chosen to hide from the authorities in. On September 11,2001, several weapons went with me wherever I went, in the trunk of my car because I had no idea what could happen next. I will do whatever it is that I think that I need to do based on the situation that is presented to me.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 11:09:47 PM EDT
[/flame]

I keep a walther 9mm in a small biometic safe chained to my bed. it is chambered with a spare mag. all hydroshocks. I can have it in my hand in less than 3 secconds. the key with a pistol is practice, practice practice. I probably have 3-5k rounds through it. I also have a mosburg 500 18.5" I used to keep out.. my favorite first round was bird fallowed by slug buck slug buck etc... cant keep that out of the safe now that I have a kid
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 11:22:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gmcem50:

Originally Posted By taquito971:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By taquito971:
You should have your handgun loaded and in a holster on your belt when you are at home. If you don't take it with you to the store you can put it back in your safe for that trip. When you come home put it back in your holster. Fairly simple. I keep my rifle out and in the bedroom unloaded while at home. I keep a few magazines near it, but not in reach of my two children. I'll fight my way back to the rifle with my handgun if necessary.

Brian



I think you need to move to a better neighborhood and quick. Nobody in my family sees a need to carry 24/7 and that includes 3 generations of LEO's in the LA area.


You can kiss my ass. I feel the need to be able to protect my family from whatever I feel is a threat. Your opinion is different from mine. I'm not going to move because I fear anything. I don't live in fear, and I'm sure as heck not going to take your word for it that I don't need it. Where are you going to be if/when I do need it?

Brian



+1; my reaction to PaDanby's remark was the same as yours. What an arrogant person to presume that. Sure, we'll all just move and run away like a bunch of pussies instead of exercising our constitutional rights! That's the solution, yeah. whatever.



It was a joke that you two weenies couldn't understand. But if you really choose to live in an area where you have to carry all the time, well so be it. You're either stupid, paranoid or a coward. I notice he never answered the question about letting his kids play outside? Do you stand guard over them all the time, or hope for the best? You have 3-7 days of food and water stored in a place you can get to? Do you have an automatic gas line shut off? You want to be prepared, why not prepare for a far more likely threat.

You also flaunt your ignorance regarding constitutional rights. Figure it out noobs. The 2nd applies to the Federal government, not the State and in case you never figured it out. You have no state constitutional rights to keep or bear arms in CA. (If you think you do have state constitutional rights to bear arms care to explain why he has to take his gun off to go to the store???) Now kwitcher bitchin and grow up.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 12:22:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 12:41:20 AM EDT by Mauser101]

Originally Posted By foogoo:
I live in a small apartment ...

However, I'm a bit wary of just leaving a loaded weapon lying around as well. What do you guys do? Is it worth putting it in the safe and taking it out everytime I step outside to go to the market or something? There must be an easier yet safe way...



I just had to get over it. I keep my XD .40 loaded and chambered with a spare magazine next to my bed in a soft leather breifcase between my bed and my dresser. I keep my Remington 870 18" loaded, but not chambered, in my closet behind my clothes which is on the way out my bedroom door (I want to get some large hanging hooks so I can suspend it overhead in my closet so you cannot see it when casually looking in).

I have no children (nor do any of my friends) so any child gaining access to my apartment has likely broken and entered. Being as I live in an apartment I cannot install a nice safe. I keep all my valuable firearms and those unlikely to be used in a home defense capacity stored in my father's safe at my parents home.

When I purchase a home of my own I intend to permanently install a safe but will likely keep a ready firearm easily accessable to my bedside. When I'm in a position to have children over a lot, or my own, I will probably get a Mini-Gun Vault installed near my bed or a wall safe and will probably install a long gun wall safe in my closet for long arms.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 12:25:01 AM EDT
I've told foogoo about it, but I have always wanted to cut a whole in the wall between two studs and install one of those spring loaded cabinet doors that is held closed with a magnet. Match the door up with the wall and paint/wall paper it to match. No one would ever know it was there until you intentionally opened it. When I get a house of my own I am going to look into it more seriously.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 1:17:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By gmcem50:

Originally Posted By taquito971:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By taquito971:
You should have your handgun loaded and in a holster on your belt when you are at home. If you don't take it with you to the store you can put it back in your safe for that trip. When you come home put it back in your holster. Fairly simple. I keep my rifle out and in the bedroom unloaded while at home. I keep a few magazines near it, but not in reach of my two children. I'll fight my way back to the rifle with my handgun if necessary.

Brian



I think you need to move to a better neighborhood and quick. Nobody in my family sees a need to carry 24/7 and that includes 3 generations of LEO's in the LA area.


You can kiss my ass. I feel the need to be able to protect my family from whatever I feel is a threat. Your opinion is different from mine. I'm not going to move because I fear anything. I don't live in fear, and I'm sure as heck not going to take your word for it that I don't need it. Where are you going to be if/when I do need it?

Brian



+1; my reaction to PaDanby's remark was the same as yours. What an arrogant person to presume that. Sure, we'll all just move and run away like a bunch of pussies instead of exercising our constitutional rights! That's the solution, yeah. whatever.



It was a joke that you two weenies couldn't understand. But if you really choose to live in an area where you have to carry all the time, well so be it. You're either stupid, paranoid or a coward. I notice he never answered the question about letting his kids play outside? Do you stand guard over them all the time, or hope for the best? You have 3-7 days of food and water stored in a place you can get to? Do you have an automatic gas line shut off? You want to be prepared, why not prepare for a far more likely threat.

You also flaunt your ignorance regarding constitutional rights. Figure it out noobs. The 2nd applies to the Federal government, not the State and in case you never figured it out. You have no state constitutional rights to keep or bear arms in CA. (If you think you do have state constitutional rights to bear arms care to explain why he has to take his gun off to go to the store???) Now kwitcher bitchin and grow up.



Nice joke. So I'm a weenie, huh. You are an arrogant condescending jackass who apparently does not respect the rights of private citizens. I try very hard not to form negative opinions about all cops when I encounter jerks like you, because that would not be fair or accurate. It helps that I know a few personally and they agree with me on this.

If you must know, I live in an upper class neighborhood in the hills where the average home price is over $1million, so no, I do not need to move to a better neighborhood. I'll answer your question; no, I do not let my kids play outside in the front yard, only the back. Does that make me paranoid or a coward? Please enlighten me if you think it does. Do I have 3-7 days of food/water stored in a place I can get to? No, I have 2+ WEEKS worth. Unlike your grossly uninformed assumptions about me, I am prepared for just about anything, including but not limited to natural disaster, civil unrest or criminal attack.

Last time I checked, the US constitution trumps state law, so I really couldn't care less if the CA constitution doesn't have a 2ndA. Your presumtion of my ignorance is more evidence of your arrogance. I don't need to be lectured by you about what is or isn't in the CA constitution. Have YOU ever read the Federalist Papers? I'm an American first. 'He has to take his gun off to go to the store' because the state of CA violates the US Constitution by infringing on our 2ndA rights. Does that make it right? Apparently for you, it does. And people wonder where the phrase 'jack booted thug' came from.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:30:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

I think you need to move to a better neighborhood and quick. Nobody in my family sees a need to carry 24/7 and that includes 3 generations of LEO's in the LA area.



Nobody "sees the need to carry" until it's too late.

Unless you and your family have advance scheduling info... "Johnny Mugger is going to hit you next Wednesday at 9:30PM. You'd better be carrying then"...
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:00:33 PM EDT
Dudes, dudes, where's the Arfcom love?

Personally, while we have something like 80 firearms in the house, none of them are loaded. Difficult for us to imagine a likely scenario where we would need a loaded gun. Playing the odds.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:31:13 PM EDT
Nice joke. So I'm a weenie, huh. You are an arrogant condescending(only when I run into functional illiterates who are ignorant of the laws, rights and responsibilities of citizenship. You apparently haven't got a clue and you should, ergo condescension if appropriate in your case) jackass who apparently does not respect the rights of private citizens. I try very hard not to form negative opinions about all cops when I encounter jerks like you, (well when you encounter cops, maybe you better be more concerned with what you did wrong AGAIN, and what they are working on because since I'm not an LEO just a better educated private citizen who is embarassed about your ignorance) because that would not be fair or accurate or relevant . It helps that I know a few personally and they agree with me on this. Oh sure they do break the state law on firearms blatantly in front of them and see what happens. Next time you see one ask him which firearms or any other laws he regularly enforces. Wanna bet he will tell you STATE laws and not Federal laws?

If you must know, I live in an upper class neighborhood in the hills where the average home price is over $1million oh whoopee a middle class neighborhood , so no, I do not need to move to a better neighborhood. I'll answer your question; no, I do not let my kids play outside in the front yard, only the back. Does that make me paranoid or a coward? It means that you don't trust your neighbors, or the neighborhood, which means that if you aren't paranoid or a coward and you can't allow your children to be children, you should move to a neighborhood where the kids can play freelyPlease enlighten me if you think it does. YES or more impressed with living in yuppieville than letting your kids be kids Do I have 3-7 days of food/water stored in a place I can get to? No, I have 2+ WEEKS worth. Good that only means you're not a total idiot. Unlike your grossly uninformed assumptions about me, I am prepared for just about anything, including but not limited to natural disaster, civil unrest or criminal attack.

Last time I checked, the US constitution trumps state law (only in specific limited areas, slept through Civics didnja?), so I really couldn't care less if the CA constitution doesn't have a 2ndA. You better because that's the document and the laws that are the problems here. Your presumtion of my ignorance is more evidence of your arrogance. I don't need to be lectured by you about what is or isn't in the CA constitution. Have YOU ever read the Federalist Papers? Yes and they don't mean squat. If you ever get arrested for anything and you say "Judge, the Federalist Papers ---" after EVERYBODY in the court stops laughing, you'll find out they have no force of law. I'm an American first. 'He has to take his gun off to go to the store' because the state of CA violates the US Constitution by infringing on our 2ndA rights. Does that make it right? Apparently for you, it does. No, actually it doesn't, but until it does, we're stuck with the way the Feds (Congress, Executive Branch and Courts), the States (all of them) (legislature and courts) have always interpreted the Constitution which is that regulating firearms is one of the powers reserved to the states under the BoR. Whether or not it is right is irrelevant, we live day to day under the laws of the State of CA, and you can throw all your immature hissy fits and words that you like, but the way the law is now. We're stuck with it. You don't like it, be my guest to walk down Hollywood Blvd, with an unregistered AR with 30 round magazines and see what happens and which courts you are successfully prosecuted in. Maybe you can be the volunteer to be the case that goes all the way to SCOTUS. If not, shut up and grow up.

And people wonder where the phrase 'jack booted thug' came from. From mouthbreathing morons, but feel free to use it and join their ranks, it just helps the thinkers realize where you are coming from.


I'ld use more appropriate words than weenie but the CoC(which apparently you also need to read) doesn't like it.

First you're ignorant if you think the Second trumps state laws. If it does please explain why all the states are able to have their own laws regarding carry and types. Try to use small words, make it simple for me. Don't give me pie-in-the-sky philosophy or ideas, how about specific legal principles that are recognized. What you think (we'll assume for the moment facts not in evidence here) doesn't matter, use actual legal doctrine that is currently recognized at both the Federal and State level.


Obtusity, Always Obtusity

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 10:50:02 PM EDT
Forgive me for assuming you were LEO; you just mentioned the fact that you "and all your LEO relatives"... (whatever it was), so many times that I just naturally made the connection. Plus, you do come across as really arrogant. One only has to read your last post with all it's insults and childish name calling to see that. Can you blame me for making that assumption?

Also, you are the one who started the immature name calling, not me. I simply commented that your reply to the other poster sounded arrogant. I didn't call you names; why do you feel the need to call me names? You started it, not me.

Why do you keep insinuating that I am in some way violating CA law? Nowhere in any of my posts did I state OR EVEN IMPLY any illegal activity. All I did was express an opnion. So I can only assume that my philosophical disagreement with the CA legislature, that it's application of firearms laws is a violation of the US 2ndA is somehow wrong in your eyes. Why is that? Is a differing opinion from yours now a violation of the law? Please.

So, I'm a 'functional illiterate who (is) ignorant of the laws', huh? On what do you base this EXTREEMLY CONDESCENDING remark? You sir, know absolutely nothing about me, or what I know. We have a difference of opinion regarding when it is appropriate to carry at home, or what level of preparedness is necessary. How do you make the jump between the two?

I could go on and on, point by point, answering your rediculous statements about me but really, what is the point? You seem to be the kind of person who just gets off on making rude inflammatory statements to get a reaction out of people. I don't need to justify how I live my life or raise my children to anyone, especialy not a complete stranger on a forum who is rude and insulting. If you care to continue this like a man, PM me and we'll talk it out on the phone. Otherwize, this idiotic exchange (while maybe entertaining) serves no purpose and is a collossal waste of my time.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 11:23:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 11:25:14 PM EDT by NeoWeird]
And while attempting a rebuttal, God pointed to a couple or arguing men and Moses paused, then turn back to God and said "Yeah, I see your point..."

Seriously guys, I'm only 21 and your sounding childish to me. I don't want to insult either of you, but everyone here can see it; You're going back and fourth in a "I know, I said that, but you said this, so what?" argument from the third grade.

-You both agree that California violates our 2nd Ammendment rights.

-You both agree that protection is needed.

-You both answered the topic.

Just drop it and let it go. So one is a total ass hat, and the other is a dick head. Which one do you want to be? I'll even be diplomatic and let you choose. If you really feel so strongly to the point that what they are doing is wrong then write an article on it and see what support you get, or start a poll in a separate topic, or anything else that is constructive because right now you have a person with a legitimate NEED who is asking for help, even if it is just for opinions or suggestions, and you have completely derailed his topic just to play 'Head rooster of the coup'. If you know you are right, then make your point and drop it knowing that you are leaving ahead; because no matter what happens, you are BOTH looking arrogant, you are BOTH looking foolish and childish, and you are BOTH coming off as someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about (and I know for a fact that one of you knows what they are talking about).

If you want to sit there and blast me, go ahead. I post everyday, and read just about every topic that passes this forum; so you can be guaranteed I will see and read it. But you won't see me respond, not even for a second, because I don't need to degrade the board to try and make myself look cool in front of a bunch of people I will probably never interact with outside of an internet handle. So please just act like the men and women that we are and just drop it (or take it somewhere else like a responsible person would do) or continue to flame away and make yourselves look like a couple of idiots arguing on the internet.

ps. This is almost as bad as the time the boards got into the argument of muzzle up/down when walking to the line. That's all it is, you're arguing over what is better/right: a handgun on the belt or a shotgun out of sight. Nice battle.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 9:46:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
...Just drop it and let it go...
...If you know you are right, then make your point and drop it knowing that you are leaving ahead;...
...(or take it somewhere else like a responsible person would do)...



NeoWeird, your advice is well taken (at least my me) and you will notice that at the end of my last reply that is basically what I did.


Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
If you want to sit there and blast me, go ahead...



Dude, I recognize your screen name from other forums and you seem to be a level headed person who is reasoned and not given to flippant hostility, so I would never do that to you; it's not my style. I come to these forums to engage in intelligent discussion and maybe learn a thing or two; NOT to get into silly pissing matches with strangers. In this one, I should have ignored the name calling and just let it go, like you said. I'll be more mindful of that in the future.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:59:05 PM EDT
What a pissing contest...

I dont know why people argue like this over the internet.

Is there any way to 'win' a pissing contest like this?

Thanks for the entertainment. I am going back to the NASCAR race.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:09:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red-Bucket-98:
What a pissing contest...

I dont know why people argue like this over the internet.

Is there any way to 'win' a pissing contest like this?

Thanks for the entertainment. I am going back to the NASCAR race.



Don't know, but it sure sounds like you're trying to find out first hand.

Seriously, why would you go and rip the bandage off when you know it was just resolved?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:40:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:

Originally Posted By Red-Bucket-98:
What a pissing contest...

I dont know why people argue like this over the internet.

Is there any way to 'win' a pissing contest like this?

Thanks for the entertainment. I am going back to the NASCAR race.



Don't know, but it sure sounds like you're trying to find out first hand.

Seriously, why would you go and rip the bandage off when you know it was just resolved?






Whatever, dude.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:47:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red-Bucket-98:

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:

Originally Posted By Red-Bucket-98:
What a pissing contest...

I dont know why people argue like this over the internet.

Is there any way to 'win' a pissing contest like this?

Thanks for the entertainment. I am going back to the NASCAR race.



Don't know, but it sure sounds like you're trying to find out first hand.

Seriously, why would you go and rip the bandage off when you know it was just resolved?






Whatever, dude.




Exactly my point.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:15:22 PM EDT
NO Neo, we don't agree that CA violates our Second Amendment rights. CA doesn't violate our Second Amendment rights.

Basic concepts here. The Second Amendment applies only to the Federal Government and Congress. Regulation of firearms at the state level is Constitutional.

It has always been so, and petty mewlings by people who would like to believe otherwise is ignorant and counter-productive. Unless and until EVERY gunowner understands the laws we live under, the mechanisms by which they are made and/or changed, we won't make any progress. And people who spout misunderstandings about the laws only make it easier for the opposition.

We need one or more of the following to happen to get firearms law relief in CA.

CA voters and/or the legislature has to make new laws repealing the bad old laws, in our favor and the Governor needs to sign that legislation. Probability of occurence?

The CA Supreme Court needs to find one or more of the CA gun laws "Unconstitutional". There is currently no constitutional basis on the CA state level for that to happen. The CA state Constitution has no Second Amendment equivalent. Probability of occurence?

The 9th Circuit or the SCOTUS needs to find one or more CA firearms laws unconstitutional. Right now, with current status of the CA Constitution, Second Amendment, all precedent, etc, that States have the Constitutional right to regulate firearms that isn't going to happen. Probability of occurence? Slightly better than the above 2

SCOTUS needs to incorporate the Second to the states. How will this happen? A case working it's way up and the SCOTUS finding that the Second does apply to the lower levels, as has happened to several of the other Amendments in the past. Until that happens in the courts, all the wishful thinking and bloviating on gunowners parts won't make a difference. Probability of occurence? More likely than the above 3


The Second has not been incorporated to lower levels of government. It needs to be, and as long as "knowledgeable" people assume it applies they will make no effort to make that happen. How will it happen, One or more Federal Circuit Courts have to rule that it is and the SCOTUS will need to confirm it. Why SCOTUS? Because the 9th Circus will never rule that way, and as long as CA is in the 9th Circus, we need the SCOTUS to make the ruling.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:25:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
NO Neo, we don't agree that CA violates our Second Amendment rights. CA doesn't violate our Second Amendment rights.



Yes I understand that California has no second in our constitution, and that our rights as Californians is not protected in any way. Yes I know that, and I understand (for the most part anyways) what needs to happen and where we are at. My point was this:

I am an American first and a Californian second. If I leave this state am I still an American but no longer a Californian? We are ALL Americans first, and residents of our state second. And It may not be true for every state, but our forefathers fought, bleed, and died to secure OUR rights as Americans long before California was even considered as a state. I don't care what the government or the state does, MY forefathers fought so we could have rights; the same rights that the King of England refused his subjects, the same rights that our government is refusing it's subjects. Just because the government says something is law doesn't make it right, in fact chances are it makes it wrong. A government can ONLY do wrong, period. It's statistically impossible for a government to do right, it can either do right and continue on or do wrong and slide by. Slowly as time goes on the wrongs add up and the rights don't until it gets to the point where rebellion happens, just like with our original collonies. I don't give a damn what some imaginary lines in the ground mean, and I don't care who tries to tell me otherwise. I am an American damn it, and MY country is based on freedom and liberty, not under a government but under one God with no one else to answer to but him. I don't care what PC bullshit comes up, or what laws get passed by cowards willing to bury their head in the sand and throw their rights to the wind to try and stay safe. MY forefathers fought and died to make this country, and I will do the same if the need arises.

Yes, the law says that Californians don't have a right to bear arms, and the law is wrong. Period.
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