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Posted: 3/9/2006 11:03:44 AM EDT
People have played around with different ways of NOT making an AW out of our new lowers: fixed-mag, no pistol grip, or rimfire uppers (this last one’s a gray area, I know). I haven’t seen the idea of disabling the gas system discussed. This would basically turn the rifle into a bolt action, requiring manual cycling with the charging handle before each shot. In other words, it’s not a semi-auto. Anyone do this? Seems this could be another option to get around the deadly combination of:

Semi-Automatic + Centerfire + Accepts Detachable Magazines + At Least One Evil Feature

Might not be the best of the options available, but it wouldn’t be too bad for a bench gun. This should be legal, no?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 12:13:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 12:15:49 PM EDT by operatorerror]
Should be legal, yes.

I believe that's how people are doing AK builds.

The bolt action AR is the only way that I know of that shooters in Great Britian manage to keep theirs.

ETA you should visit the Hometown - United Kingdom boards. Some nice weapons there.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 4:33:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 4:36:58 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]
Oh, now THAT"S a good idea!!!! Thank you.

Consider also, I already own an upper with BOTH a bolt handle on the bolt carrier AND an adjustable gas system that can be turned OFF with the appropriate allen wrench. I guess I am in BUSINESS.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:50:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
Oh, now THAT"S a good idea!!!! Thank you.



WTF?

If you want a bolt-action military rifle, you can pick up a Mosin-Nagant at Big 5 for $80.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:21:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 10:22:11 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]
You see, I have this fantastic upper sitting in my safe that has no matching lower....
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:36:46 AM EDT
Be careful.

California banned the DPMS pump action AR in 2000 (it's a listed model) because their reasoning was all you need to do is swap uppers and the world will cease to exist.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:35:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MikeSearson:
Be careful.

California banned the DPMS pump action AR in 2000 (it's a listed model) because their reasoning was all you need to do is swap uppers and the world will cease to exist.



Good point. Absolutely, this is a very risky grey area. Run, don't walk, away.

Do remember that DOJ standards for certification/approval are often higher than the legal standard for legality. (Vulcan pinned/glued-in mags, etc. for example.) But the contention can (and would) be easily made that a detachable-mag lower with pistol grip and/or telestock is an AW.
This is why my FAQ says to NEVER have an off-list lower with pistol grip and/or telestock but an open magwell.

There is a small chance you could slide legally if and only if the pump upper was attached to the
lower and never removed but that's still playing with fire.

Frankly, I wouldn't even do this with a DOJ approval letter. This is where the "58 DA" thing could get some exposure (esp as it's not protected by a Supreme Ct decision). Only if you got a true formal ruling letter (opinion letter) signed by AG (fat chance!) would such a document have any merit.

This is much different with an off-list bolt or pump-action AK. There, we have an "all in one" gun that is not split into upper & lower halves. When no gas system installed and gas port closed, it's legitimately not a semiauto rifle, thus falling out of 12276.1 definition...


Bill Wiese
San Jose



Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:24:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 12:28:35 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]
Who said anything about a detachable mag? Not I.

What I could do is put a decent pistol grip on my off-list, fixed mag lower with it's bolt action upper and not violate the AW law. I could even replace the push pins with bolts requiring tools to remove so the uppers are not swappable. That way I can add the proper grip to my off-list lower and not have to wait, hoping my lower gets "listed".
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 1:28:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 1:28:53 PM EDT by bwiese]

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
Who said anything about a detachable mag? Not I.

What I could do is put a decent pistol grip on my off-list, fixed mag lower with it's bolt action upper and not violate the AW law. I could even replace the push pins with bolts requiring tools to remove so the uppers are not swappable. That way I can add the proper grip to my off-list lower and not have to wait, hoping my lower gets "listed".



Why, then, go to the wasted trouble of having a bolt action?

You have a fixed 10rd mag, so you can have a pistol grip and be semiauto.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:19:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
Should be legal, yes.

I believe that's how people are doing AK builds.

The bolt action AR is the only way that I know of that shooters in Great Britian manage to keep theirs.

ETA you should visit the Hometown - United Kingdom boards. Some nice weapons there.



I am sooo glad I dont live in the UK. If I the only option I had was one of their bolt action ARs, I'd quit shooting altogether.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:04:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By str8t1:

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
Should be legal, yes.

I believe that's how people are doing AK builds.

The bolt action AR is the only way that I know of that shooters in Great Britian manage to keep theirs.

ETA you should visit the Hometown - United Kingdom boards. Some nice weapons there.



I am sooo glad I dont live in the UK. If I the only option I had was one of their bolt action ARs, I'd quit shooting altogether.



If all you ever shot or wanted to shoot was an AR you should quit shooting completely.
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