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Posted: 2/22/2006 5:09:51 PM EDT
And can be easily unfixed? whats the difference between that and the AR situation? why are people freaking out.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:32:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
And can be easily unfixed? whats the difference between that and the AR situation? why are people freaking out.



Who do you mean? The DOJ? DOJ is freaking out because we found a way to import AR/AK receivers legally.

Are we talking about someone else?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:01:05 PM EDT
Simple because the AR-15 is like the little brother of the M16. When big brother M16 is killing Iraqis it enhances the tone that this weapon is a weapon of war and the negative emotions that go along with it. When these "Liberals" oppose the war in Iraq and see little brother all they know about is big brother. They are ignorant. And they don't like big brother, because they can't do anything about big brother (stop the war). They feel that they have an obligation to do something so they pick on something that they can do like pass gun control laws (beat up little brother because big brother beat thier ass, they can't stop the war), retribution. This is what goes through the mids of the Liberals, this is why you can't have an AR15, if you want an AR15 you need to go to Iraq to kill Iraqis. This is the logic anyways even the Republicans have this mentality not all but some. I believe it was Bush who said that if you want to shoot this type of weapon, join the military, then a whole bunch of people were clapping and applauding him. Ok maybe it wasnt Bush but it was some politician and it was on TV.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:25:35 PM EDT
DSA fixed mag FAL comes with a copy of a letter from CADOJ to DSA saying the rifle is not an assault weapon. They did it by spot welding the mag release to the receiver. I have never heard of anyone other than DSA getting an approval letter from DOJ on their FAL fix mag method. That doesn't mean you violate any law but you "could" be a test case by DOJ or any of the 58 DAs.
Fast forward to off list lowers, everyone just "assumes" the fixed mag kit is legal but NO ONE ever ask DOJ because I suspect they will say NO and some poor guy will end up being the "test case" by either the DOJ or one of the 58 DA's. You may prevail in the court of law, but do you want to be the test case ?

Afterall, how many rounds of recoil do you think those nuts and bolt can stay tight before they will come loose and can be hand untight without a tool ? The moment it happens, your definition of a fixed mag is on very shaky ground.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:32:35 PM EDT
Loctite.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:34:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CTT2:
Loctite.



Good idea
Welding between the nut and bolt is even better. Both are reversible when you leave the state.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:21:01 PM EDT
I find it interesting that so many people are this paranoid about other people building fixed mag. AR's. Do you think the DOJ or any other Law Enforcement Agency is going to be out to find anyone who has a fixed magazine in their rifle and wait for it to fall out and arrest someone??? If so, those of you who think this need to start thinking of some prescription medicine for your worries. This whole thing about the mag. falling out is just stupid. If it's done right you wont have that problem. Unless your out in the desert playing RAMBO and rolling around, throwing your rifle around. Please seek help or your paranoia will lead you to that place where no one hears from you again, oh, and you wont be able to own a firearm ever again too.............
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:12:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:51:17 PM EDT by hycheng]

Originally Posted By TRIG1100:
I find it interesting that so many people are this paranoid about other people building fixed mag. .......



The problem is, pinning mag on receivers was a small time quantity activity (a few individuals DIY on Imbels) or with blessing letters from DOJ like DSA or Vulcan. Now you have >10,000 off list lowers and you start to have these so call "home depot special" kits. Sooner or later one of them are going to get stupid and became a "test case" in a liberal area with an aggressive DA. If that guy is poor enough and didn't have enough resources to prevail in court, do you think the rest of the 10,000 owners will chip in and help him win the case ? Or we will have a case law and 10,000 paper weight overnight ?

This has always been my nightmare scenario after the DOJ memo. First they force you into a CAT 4 AW complying to SB23, then they win some cases on fix mag kits and you will have 10,000 paper weight after that. That's why I really believe we have to win the memo rebuttal like bwiese suggested, otherwise don't get stupid and become a test case on the fix mag kit.


Originally Posted By TRIG1100:
This whole thing about the mag. falling out is just stupid..........



Wrong, you don't have to have your mag fall off to get into trouble. All you need is the fix mag kit loose enough to be hand untight to get into trouble.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:09:13 AM EDT
I dont think you'll end up with a paperweight. You could sell them out of state if worse comes to worse. Of course if you bought a lot of lowers at premium price you will have lost a bunch of change. But thats the price of gambling. Personally, I dont gamble. So I only have 1 receiver still in its bare state. Depending on the outcome of all this, it can be fixed mag, no evil features, built when I move out or sold if I dont. So all I've lost is time...

As for the memo, theres nothing to win just yet because thats all it is right now, a memo. Once the DOJ makes their move, then the appropriate action can be taken. People like bwiese and others are preparing themselves for the appropriate action even as we sit back and type (Many thanks again Bill!). And when they do move, we should all support them as much as we can....

As mentioned earlier, loctite is your friend.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:13:10 AM EDT
Good point, however....
How many "home depot special" kits users are smart enough to use loctite ? How many will just assume "this whole thing about the mag. falling out is just stupid" as long as the mag stays, so what the nut/washer is loose ?
I always believe in worst case scenerio, this is a life time supply of CHEAPER and QUALITY FAB10 or Vulcan alternavtives. There are known ways of fixing the mags that even DOJ does not consider in violation of SB23 (aka Vulcan pin and epoxy).
I just hope we will prevail over the memo on Cat 4 AW and things open up. Until then, there is no rush and keeping it as stripped lower sounds fine with me. I have 4 FAB10s (which will be register 50BMG soon ) that work just like off-list lowers with pin mag kits.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:28:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hycheng:

Afterall, how many rounds of recoil do you think those nuts and bolt can stay tight before they will come loose and can be hand untight without a tool ? The moment it happens, your definition of a fixed mag is on very shaky ground.



Here's my rebuttal to the "fixed mag test case" argument. If they DOJ attempts to take someone to court with a fixed mag then they have to admit to the public that they let well over 10,000 of these into the completely legally with their blessing.

Imagine someone in a court room being asked "Why did you think this wasn't an assault weapon" and then answering, "Because the CA DOJ wrote me a letter and told me it was lawful to import this reciever and build a fixed magazine rifle. I wouldn't have done it if they had told me it was illegal."

Nah... same deal with the FAL. They don't want to admit these things are still comming into the state. ESPECIALLY not during an election year. Remember, to prosecute someone means that person goes in the paper and media and they MUST admit they let 10,000+ into the state.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:54:52 AM EDT
That's why I think the DOJ memo is so evil.
If you assume the memo will stick and AFTER the registration period,
a) If you don't register, you will be busted
b) If you got busted with a "non-compliant" fix mag kit, they are using SB23 to nail you. DOJ can say, we let you have SB23 compliant off-list rifles. It is existing law, we have no problem with it. But you violate SB23 with these fix mag kits. See you in jail. That is politically sound and cover their ass pretty well.
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