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Posted: 2/9/2006 7:51:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 7:51:49 PM EDT by sum-rifle]
Can I let someone fire my AR15 at a range?
I asked this in the "California firearms and weapons primer" thread but got no response.

A friend told me it was a felony to let someone under 18 handle an AR, is this true?
Can you let people over 18 fire it if you are right there?

If there are laws forbidding these acts, can we change them?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 8:18:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 8:20:16 PM EDT by Pthfndr]
As an "Expert", shouldn't you know this stuff?


Recognized in the Superior Courts of the State of California as an expert. Testified in numerous jury trials as an expert. Cross examined by defense attorneys and declared by several Superior Court Judges to be an expert. I believe I am an expert.


As long as you are in their presence you can let someone 21 and over shoot your AR.

If they are underage then their parent / guardian should be present. There used to be some junior shooters, some under 16 at our HP matches. We have several LEOs that also shoot the match and it was not a problem.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 8:26:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 8:29:16 PM EDT by sum-rifle]
Yes I should, but I do not know everything about everything in the entire world and if I do not know something I am not afraid to ask. After I ask and get a correct answer then I will know it.

I am thinking I could find it (or not) if I really searched through the California Penal Code but I did look and did not find it so in true ARFCOM spirit I asked after I looked in the Hometown CA forum and read quite a bit of that still not finding it.

Is it written anywhere that it is legal?
If it is not written that it is illegal it shjould be legal I know.
Say I want my 11 year old daughter to learn to shoot my AR and I am there it is OK?
I thought it was but a friend just told me a day or two ago that it was a majot no no.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:09:47 PM EDT
I don't have time right now to sift through and look it up, but it (the law) says something to the effect that an underage person, or someone the AW is not registered to, cannot "possess" an AW. The interpretation was that as long as you are in their presence (and parent /guardian in the case of a "minor") that it was not considered possesion for them to be shooting it.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:42:31 PM EDT
First, all you need to do to be certified as an expert in court is to have more knowledge in a subject than the general public. I bet that most of ARFCOM could qualify as a firearms "Expert," though the defense would probably voir dire your ear off.

Aaaaaand back to the actual questions.

Your over-18 friends may handle, and shoot your registered assault weapons, but you may not leave the immediate area.

Minors are a similar situation, but need their parents / guardians to be there, or give permission.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 8:22:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 11:16:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:

Originally Posted By leelaw:
Your over-18 friends may handle, and shoot your registered assault weapons, but you may not leave the immediate area.



That is my understanding.



What about the other part of my question? My 11 year old daughter?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 11:57:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 11:58:54 AM EDT by mat-ar]
i dont think there are anny written laws regarding this issue, how ever i have been to a couple of shooting ranges where they instruct you to only let 18+ year olds shoot and handle "Assault weapons"..

so maybe some ranges wont allow it, but i am not aware of any law against it.¨

edit: but if your ar-15 isnt a registered assault weapon yet, they they can fire it. Meaning if you have a pinned mag so its cali legal its not an assault weapon.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 7:45:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 7:50:52 PM EDT by sum-rifle]
OK I found it myself. You can lend AR's (let someone else shoot them) as long as they are 18 or over, you stay there with them and you are at a place where it is legal to shoot so called "assault weapons" I do not like this law, but it is the law. Nobody in California who is under 18 years of age can shoot or apparently even touch one of these dangerous tools.

12280. (a) (1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or
causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into
the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who
gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle,
except as
provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction
shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six,
or eight years.



(k) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to:
(1) A person who lawfully possesses and has registered an assault
weapon or .50 BMG rifle pursuant to this chapter who lends that
assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to another if all the following
apply:

(A) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent
is 18 years of age or over and is not in a class of persons
prohibited from possessing firearms by virtue of Section 12021 or
12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code.

(B) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent
remains in the presence of the registered possessor of the assault
weapon or .50 BMG rifle.
(C) The assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is possessed at any of the
following locations:
(i) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business
license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.

(ii) While on the premises of a target range of a public or
private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing
shooting at targets.
(iii) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational
project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted
under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a
nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or
promotes education about, firearms.
(2) The return of an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to the
registered possessor, or the lawful possessor, which is lent by the
same pursuant to paragraph (1).
(l) Subdivisions (b) and (c) shall not apply to the possession of
an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle by a person to whom an assault
weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent pursuant to subdivision (k).
(m) Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) shall not apply to the
possession and importation of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle
into this state by a nonresident if all of the following conditions
are met:
(1) The person is attending or going directly to or coming
directly from an organized competitive match or league competition
that involves the use of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle.
(2) The competition or match is conducted on the premises of one
of the following:
(A) A target range that holds a regulatory or business license for
the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(B) A target range of a public or private club or organization
that is organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.

(3) The match or competition is sponsored by, conducted under the
auspices of, or approved by, a law enforcement agency or a nationally
or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes
education about, firearms.
(4) The assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is transported in
accordance with Section 12026.1 or 12026.2.
(5) The person is 18 years of age or over and is not in a class of
persons prohibited from possessing firearms by virtue of Section
12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare
and Institutions Code.
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 8:49:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2006 8:53:31 PM EDT by Pthfndr]

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
OK I found it myself. You can lend AR's (let someone else shoot them) as long as they are 18 or over, you stay there with them and you are at a place where it is legal to shoot so called "assault weapons" I do not like this law, but it is the law. Nobody in California who is under 18 years of age can shoot or apparently even touch one of these dangerous tools.



It's been 6 years since the law went into effect. There was some legal discussion about this way back and as long as the parent or legal guardian is in the presence of the minor then it was ruled ok for them to shoot an AW. YOU can let YOUR daughter shoot your AR if you are right there with her, But she can't go with one of your friends and use THEIR AR if you are not present. Likewise you can't take your neighbors kid with you. It had to do with the fact that the legal guardian is the one responsible, not the minor.

But, if you want to play it safe I would contact the CRPA or one of their attorneys. IIRC they got a ruling on this somewhere.

ETA:I believe the ruling derived from this section of the law.

12101. (a)(1) A minor shall not possess a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply if one of the following circumstances exists:
(A) The minor is accompanied by his or her parent or legal guardian, and the minor is actively engaged in, or is in direct transit to or from, a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves this use of a firearm.
(B) The minor is accompanied by a responsible adult, the minor has the prior written consent of his or her parent or legal guardian, and the minor is actively engaged in, or is in direct transit to or from, a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.
(C) The minor is at least 16 years of age, the minor has the prior written consent of his or her parent or legal guardian, and the minor is actively engaged in, or is in direct transit to or from, a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.
(D) The minor has the prior written consent of his or her parent or legal guardian, the minor is on lands owned or lawfully possessed by his or her parent or legal guardian, and the minor is actively engaged in, or is in direct transit to or from, a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, or a motion picture, television, or video production, or entertainment or theatrical event, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.
(b)(1) A minor shall not possess live ammunition.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply if one of the following circumstances exists:
(A) The minor has the written consent of his or her parent or legal guardian to possess live ammunition.
(B) The minor is accompanied by his or her parent or legal guardian.
(C) The minor is actively engaged in, or is going to or from, a lawful, recreational sport, including, but not limited to, competitive shooting, or agricultural, ranching, or hunting activity, the nature of which involves the use of a firearm.
(c) Every minor who violates this section shall be punished as follows:
(1) By imprisonment in the state prison or in a county jail if one of the following applies:
(A) The minor has been found guilty previously of violating this section.
(B) The minor has been found guilty previously of an offense specified in subdivision (b) of Section 12021.1 or in Section 12020, 12220, 12520, or 12560.
(C) The minor has been found guilty of a violation of paragraph (1) of subdivision (a).
(2) Violations of this section other than those violations specified in paragraph (1) shall be punishable as a misdemeanor.
(d) In a proceeding to enforce this section brought pursuant to Article 14 (commencing with Section 601) of Chapter 2 of Part 1 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, the court may require the custodial parent or legal guardian of a minor who violates this section to participate in classes on parenting education that meet the requirements established in Section 16507.7 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(e) As used in this section, "responsible adult" means a person at least 21 years of age who is not within a class of persons prohibited from owning or possessing firearms by virtue of Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(f) It is not the intent of the Legislature in enacting the amendments to this section or to Section 12078 to expand or narrow the application of current statutory or judicial authority as to the rights of minors to be loaned or to possess live ammunition or a firearm for the purpose of self-defense or the defense of others.
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