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Posted: 1/18/2006 11:37:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 4:01:34 PM EDT by RJDziedzic99]
.Poor decision on my part.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:42:38 PM EDT
Maybe you could contact another FFL who will do it and have them transferred to him?

You'll probably get stuck with transfer fees, but you should get some kind of refund from the cheesedick who backed out of a legal transaction. I mean, he did run you through the DROS check. That should be enough.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:07:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 3:59:03 PM EDT by RJDziedzic99]
.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:47:04 AM EDT
It's not uncommon to find ignorant gun dealers. At TURNERS in San Bernardino, they swear up and down that our unlisted lowers are STILL a felony and they claim that it is "The action of the AR15 that is illegal". Of course, anyone who knows ANYTHING about the assault weapons law can quickly tell you differently, but ignorance is still rampant.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:10:35 AM EDT
I would get a dros started ASAP.

Many dealers are telling their clients to do it TODAY and not wait untill the weekend as they may be SOL.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:25:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RJDziedzic99:
Okay folks I bought three lauer lowers and shipped over night. At first my dealer was all for it and accepted the order, and currently has in their store, my lowers! I filled out the DROS the same day the lowers came into town and figuered all was well. After four days I stoped by the store to get some ammo and take a look at my babies, when my dealer tells me (as I'm petting my lowers) that there is a problem; that they have to call the DOJ to make sure it's alright and legal to let me DROS and that they didn't break the law by shipping them to Cali!!!!! I stopped again to day with copies of Mr Lockyer letters to hopfully change there minds but they again said they need to hear back from the DOJ!
Is it safe to say the DOJ's gonna take there sweet time on returning the call?
is it safe to say the DOJ is gonna tuff talk my FFL ?
Can I have some other FFL Dros these for me? HOW? there not gonna hand them to me, so i can walk down the street to the next gun shop!

Any suggestion would help and would be much apperciated



is this in san diego?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:26:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By D-duck:
I would get a dros started ASAP.

Many dealers are telling their clients to do it TODAY and not wait untill the weekend as they may be SOL.



Thats what we have been hearing for the last month
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:34:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By D-duck:
I would get a dros started ASAP.

Many dealers are telling their clients to do it TODAY and not wait untill the weekend as they may be SOL.



Thats what we have been hearing for the last month



yes, but this is the most valid one I have seen due to it being a more reputable dealer. However it is only one person saying this.
As with many things from the internet its a roll of the dice.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:07:01 AM EDT
I do not believe anyone has specific knowledg of when the DOJ is gonna update Kasler list, etc.

We do know there is substantial DOJ activity relating to this. It could be tomorrow, next week or even a couple of weeks from now.

Because of this uncertainty it behooves buyers to get their lowers ASAP and even to pay extra for 1st overnight FedEx the lower to the FFL and DROSing of it immediately. (Once DROS begins, the lower is yours, even if it gets 'named' as an assault weapon during the 10 day waiting period.)

If your FFL won't do it have it sent to another that will and pay your FFL for his time (service fee) just to keep things cordial. You don't want to have to hunt for other lowers and waste time making other arrangements.

Whatever your FFL has heard is BS. Quite a few FFLs in CA are selling off-list lowers. Legality of bare off-list lowers is protected by the Harrott v Kings County decision (Jun 2001).


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:34:54 AM EDT

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the DOJ to respond to your FFLs info request.

I would suggest getting more lowers in to another FFL. Can you find one in your area that definitely has already done these transactions, and is willing to do more? If the FFL who has your lowers won't ship them to another local FFL, see if they will return them to the place you got them from.

I'd consider putting this FFL's info and location up, or at least enough info so that people who might be thinking about using them, know to steer clear.

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:04:06 PM EDT
Not in san diego, Santa Maria Cali
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:07:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 11:20:39 AM EDT by RJDziedzic99]
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 5:50:04 PM EDT
I would contact CAL DOJ and the BBB about him holding your legal firearm receivers hostage.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:06:27 PM EDT
I talked to one of there employee's there and they said it would be know problem. But I guess it is! If you look on gunbroker you can find a FFL in the area names Charles Sheen that will do them for $35 a trans. Range Master's wonted $105 F-That.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 7:55:48 PM EDT
I believe Charles is who I went through with my Su16 and he was a very nice guy and cheap to.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:37:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
I would contact CAL DOJ and the BBB about him holding your legal firearm receivers hostage.





Agh! Don't do THAT. Just have them transferred to one of the participating FFL's. I'd bet they would be happy to wash their hands of your receivers.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:49:37 PM EDT
turners....

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 6:50:57 PM EDT
if yoiu need another dealer feel free to im me.. but its in los angeles county
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:03:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 4:06:13 AM EDT by uglygun]

Originally Posted By RJDziedzic99:
Range Masters Santa Maria Ca! Dont shop this place



RAPE MASTERS.

Same goes for the Rape Masters assholes in San Luis Obispo.

I usually drop by there whenever I visit my friend who's just around the corner on Los Osos. I go in and laugh my ass off at the fuckers with their outlandish prices.

Best was about 1 year before the 50BMG ban they had an LAR Grizzly 50 with a POS ATN scope on it(the hubble telescope model) and they wanted something like 3500 for it.


If you are in Santa Maria, you might consider trying to contact Wes Morris with 10% Firearms in Taft.

It's just a quick jaunt along the 166 to get to Taft, probably a 1 hour drive from Santa Maria. Wes might be willing to handle the transfer if you can get Rape Masters to get it to Wes.

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:30:53 AM EDT
My name is Rhonda, & I'm one of the new owners of Range Master of Santa Maria. I've been trying to assist Mr. Dziedzic w/his lower registration, and this is the first time that I've heard anything negative from him: on a website that he must have felt that I would be unfamiliar with. Since we are the new owners of this gun shop & range, and have only had our FFL since July, I readily admitted that I hadn't purchased any lowers before, that I wasn't familiar with the laws pertaining to them, but that since he was a customer that used our range, I would do my best to try to help him. I let him know that we were advised to "CYA" and check w/DOJ to verify the legality of the registration. At that time, I gave him the info and he said that he understood, and gave me the impression that he didn't blame me for wanting to protect my FFL.

We are in no way affiliated with the range in SLO, and have put alot of money and effort into improving our range. I welcome Mr. Dziedzic to call me at 805-346-2501 today after we open at 1000 and direct me as to where he would like me to send his lowers, since it is painfully obvious that I can no longer statisfy him as a customer.

If there are any FFL holders that have any info regarding my getting a list of legal lowers, so that I can satisfy both my customers and the local ATF & DOJ agents, I would be grateful.

Thanks,

Rhonda Kauth
President
Range Master of Santa Maria
2004 Preisker Lane, #I
Santa Maria, CA 93454
(805) 346-2501
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:44:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 10:18:19 AM EDT by phish]
*edit*

bwiese, the ever cooler head prevailed
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:08:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 10:11:15 AM EDT by bwiese]
Hi RhondaK...

Without getting into Mr Dziedzic's issues, I will go over the current CA lower situation:

By the way, I am the guy wrote the AR/AK FAQ on Calguns.net.

at http://www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

There is no list of legal lowers. What is a legal lower is ANY lower that is NOT banned specifically in the DOJ Roster of AR15 and AK Series Weapons - which is also the same content as PC 12276(e) and California Code of Regulation sec 979.11 (also called the 'Kasler list').

These legal lowers are called "off-list" lowers or 'non-Kasler' lowers.

The list of banned AR/AKs is here, along with the 50-plus original Roberti-Roos guns:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/aw.pdf

If it's not on here by exact make/model combination, it's legal as a bare lower. Don't play tiny name games with hyphens or lack of "The", or "..., Inc." But if a given brand has some banned items (say, Rock River Arms) an unlisted item (say, their LAR15) is still not banned: it is by make and model together.

The 2001 Harrott decision basically says AR/AK series members are not banned until the DOJ publicizes them as banned and updates the Calif Code of Regulation with new banned items. They have not done this for around 5 years.

There are thus many make/model combinations that are legal to possess as bare lower receivers, or rifles w/fixed 10rd magazines.

However if these are to be built into rifles, they MUST have a fixed nondetachable 10rd mag affixed - BEFORE any other evil features (pistol grip, telestock, upper w/flash hider) are affixed. All this evil features MUST be removed before the fixed mag is removed/repaired. A mag is considered nondetachable (i.e., fixed) if it takes 'tools + time' to remove and can't be changed in normal course of rifle operation.

Calling DOJ will not necessarily get timely results. They sometimes even give wrong answers - at least to out of state dealers and mfgrs.

Calling the ATF is of no use: there are no fed issues involved. Since there are no fed issues, and since it's legal in CA, they're out of this game (as long as 4473 and other usual gun stuff paperwork done right).

We believe 6000, maybe even up to 10,000. "off list" lowers have been brought in and sold to Californians in the last 30 days (approximately). Many FFLs are doing this now. Some have eveb been inspected by the DOJ even (to make sure no illegal lowers were sold) and the agents left boxes of hundreds of lowers in the shop, with customers buying them while DOJ agents present. No one's been arrested, no off-list lowers have been seized from FFLs or purchasers.

Some or many brand/models may soon be declared as assault weapons which means they can't be sold anymore. However, if they have been DROSed to the buyer already they can be picked up by buyer - even if they were declared as AWs at day 1 of the 10 day waiting period.

Buyers of lowers, if/when these are declared as AWs, will have to register them as AWs within the mandatory 90 day registration window opened up by the DOJ.

Since you are new to this you may not have heard all of this, of course.

Mr D may not have known this. But we gun owners do like to let others know when gun businesses do what's politically correct instead of actually legal - just keeping our own side honest.

You might be able to repair this situation with Mr D as Lauer lowers are, as of now, perfectly legal to sell/transfer in CA.



Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA



Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:27:16 AM EDT
Thanks for the info, Bill.

We're just trying to stay within the law, while trying to provide good customer service. I will be refunding Mr. Dziedzic's $75 that we charged him for the use of our FFL, and will be happy to send these lowers to any FFL of his choice.

Rhonda
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:50:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 10:58:01 AM EDT by bwiese]

Originally Posted By RhondaK:
Thanks for the info, Bill.

We're just trying to stay within the law, while trying to provide good customer service. I will be refunding Mr. Dziedzic's $75 that we charged him for the use of our FFL, and will be happy to send these lowers to any FFL of his choice.



Hi Rhonda,

Frankly it would probably be best for all concerned if you just DROSd the lowers for Mr. D given there are no legal issues. You'll get some great PR from lotsa folks here too as "coming thru in a pinch".

All this initial delay discussed here, plus the time to find another FFL, etc., could cost him his lowers if they get named as AWs in the next few days - they'd then be not transferrable to him (as I believe he has not DROSed/4473'd yet?) -not only would he be out the $$ for his lower(s), he'd not have lowers at all (which is the key to most folks).

I don't think most people buying lowers care about $75, they just want these before they get banned. Time is of the essence, and these delays just put his purchase at more risk. If some ban is announced and there's, say, a week grace period you will see people paying $500-$750 for a lower just to get under the wire.)

I do think you'd really repair things with him - and get some GREAT PR here with other folks in your region on this forum - if you'd just DROS them for him as soon as mutually convenient.

I'm not speaking for him, I don't even know him, but I don't think he cares about the $75+DROS fees if he gets his lowers DROSed in time. I know I, and many others, wouldn't.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:07:59 AM EDT
I totally agree with you Bill, but after talking w/Mr. Dziedzic, I am FedExing his lowers to another local FFL which he chose. I have learned a valuable lesson, and I appreciate your honest efforts to assist all those involved.

Thanks,
Rhonda Kauth
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:39:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 3:57:24 PM EDT by RJDziedzic99]
Bweise you hit the nail on the head. Thank you , I appreciate it. I am sorry Rhonda I dont mean to give you bad PR. Knowning time is critical in getting these things registered led to a poor decision on my part! I don't blame you for making the effort to protect your ffl. I should not have made that post at all. Poor decision! For anyone interested Ronda at range masters did everything she said she would, and did transfer my lowers to another FFl. I would encourage anyone to visit Range Master as they are a fine store.

Thank you and my apologies.

Thanks to everyone thats contributed to this thread.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 12:17:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 12:27:54 PM EDT by Exiledviking2]

Originally Posted By RJDziedzic99:
Range Masters Santa Maria Ca! Dont shop this place



If you wanted to keep it civil, shouldn't you have worked with the FFL holder
rather than airing your stuff here?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 12:34:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RhondaK:
I totally agree with you Bill, but after talking w/Mr. Dziedzic, I am FedExing his lowers to another local FFL which he chose. I have learned a valuable lesson, and I appreciate your honest efforts to assist all those involved.



Anything to help more off-list AR lowers to legally come into CA.

I would hope that you continue this business as it is perfectly legal until given brands/models are declared AWs. Lotsa folks want these lowers and are willing to pay.

At the same time I am glad that this specific situation is resolved without further delay and Mr. D has his lowers to another local FFL. I just hope they don't get named within this 1 day interval :(


Bweise you hit the nail on the head. Thank you , I appreciate it. And
sorry Rhonda I dont mean to give you bad PR. Just want to keep things civil.

Thanks to everyone thats contributed to this thread



No worries. Just don't wanna see people going without lowers due to misunderstandings as time may be drawing close...

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:37:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Exiledviking2:

Originally Posted By RJDziedzic99:
Range Masters Santa Maria Ca! Dont shop this place



If you wanted to keep it civil, shouldn't you have worked with the FFL holder
rather than airing your stuff here?



Nice 3rd post....
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:01:03 AM EDT
Better than having my second ever post be a bitch fest!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:51:01 AM EDT
$75 for a FFL transfer fee?
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