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Posted: 1/15/2006 10:31:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 1:51:17 AM EDT by Skammy]
Ameetec-Arms
POF-USA
CMMG (no reply ever sent)
RBPRECISION


There are alot more that didn't bother to reply or I can't remember the name of..
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:00:34 PM EDT
More than I would care to list.

In fact, Ameetec first said they would send here so I call my FFL and told him where to send his license. Went to place an order and I was emailed that they refuse to sell to California and that my order was canceled. This all happened within 15 minutes.

I still haven't heard back from LAR...
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:06:07 PM EDT
CMMG will ship, but only to AW dealers.

Paul has a CMMG lower I believe.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 11:43:28 PM EDT
No from LRB
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:57:02 AM EDT
after a quick glance of my emails, these were the sellers who turned me down. I maybe have missed some, but these were the names that stood out that I remember turning me down:

Del-ton
Ameetec Arms
Eagle Arms
Lone Star Wholesale (before their arfcom topic)
Aimsurplus

Several (probably glose to 5-8) didn't return emails at all (like LAR who I originally wanted to get at least one of)

About 10 or so private sellers turned me down, and about 3-4 didn't return emails at all.

Ohio Ordnance Works gave me the run around about calling.

Some people gave me a template response, but they are from personal emails so I can't figure out who they work for.

I would say probably anywhere from 30+ people turned me down, and that was before I even contacted an FFL here in California. Some of these people may have flipped and will now sell to California as I did a lot of emailing in early December when this all first started happening so it would make sense a lot of them would be skeptical then.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:03:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:05:23 AM EDT by blacklisted]

Originally Posted By 99medic:
No from LRB



I never got a response from them. I didn't really expect one though. For those who plan on boycotting these vendors, it's going to be kind of hard because probably 80%+ refused to do business with California. I won't actively boycot them or anything, but I will make an extra effort to purchase from those who were willing to help.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:50:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:28:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 7:29:44 AM EDT by 6172crew]
I ended up with a CMMG, probably the same place Paul got his.

POF yelled at my FFL for even trying, funny thing is he will send PTR91 receivers but not AR's
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:50:56 AM EDT
Don't feel too bad. I had some vendors on here (not to be named) that wouldn't deal with me because I am moving to California!! I live in Ohio now and there were like two vendors on the boards that either refused to reply back to numerous emails or just plain said no. How's that for helping the gun grabbers... I don't understand how they think Cali DOJ has any jurasdiction over them and can bust em on anything... Oh well, it's going to be a fight from what I can see for anyone wanting a legal lower. Sad....Sad thing.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:09:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:10:54 AM EDT by 99medic]
I called LRB up this past Friday and they told me no and besides they do not have them in stock right now.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:51:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CaliBoundAR15:
Don't feel too bad. I had some vendors on here (not to be named) that wouldn't deal with me because I am moving to California!! I live in Ohio now and there were like two vendors on the boards that either refused to reply back to numerous emails or just plain said no. How's that for helping the gun grabbers... I don't understand how they think Cali DOJ has any jurasdiction over them and can bust em on anything... Oh well, it's going to be a fight from what I can see for anyone wanting a legal lower. Sad....Sad thing.



Where in the Caliban are you moving to?

Again we can't blame them for being confused over these laws. We sat around for 4-5 years following the 2001 Harrott decision not knowing if the DOJ recognized it. And the DOJ didn't help at all; it took 2 years of letter writting until they admitted to the decision.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:11:04 AM EDT
I Emailed ARMUSA and Flag Guns. No response from ARM. Flag guns said they would not sell lowers but were kind enought to refer me to a pawn shop in riverside.

Turners and On target had none instock and no plans to offer them for sale. I'm not going to pay $250.00 for a lower so I'll wait until the big chain stores start carrying them and the price comes down to the prices seen in the rest of the country.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:30:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 9:31:54 AM EDT by readytorock556]
AIM Surplus turned me down. Chick on the phoen said, I was in California and that I could not have em'. I wanted to say, "Well your out of state, so I guess I can't beat your ass." Anyway screw um no ammo buys from them ever again.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:12:12 AM EDT
If any of you know of any dealers or manufacturers that received a letter or phone call from DOJ about being prosecuted for shipping lowers to California, have them contact Chuck Michel, an attorney with NRA-ILA. They are especially interested in something in writing.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:27:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 10:29:03 AM EDT by bwiese]
Calibound AR15...

California can indeed have jurisdiction over commerce that runs into it. You can't send illegal things from outside CA into CA. Many states prosecute out-of-that-state vendors for shipping, things like liquor directly to consumers. California Air Resources Board bans advertising aftermarket automotive parts into CA without text "Not legal for sale or use on pollution-controlled motor vehicles", etc. - and when such parts are shipped in without this warning, these outside-CA companies get busted.

But, saying that, and reading the specific exemption of PC 12280(a) and (b) - which includes the exclusionary text, "Any person who, within this state, ..." AND combined with the Harrott decision which says that guns are banned by name if and only if they are first listed by DOJ in their Roster (which is also posted to Calif Code of Regulation, it's all moot.

Many of these companies are relying on phone contact with DOJ agents/clerks, who are telling vendors outside CA that it's illegal when it isn't. These conversations bring up Kasler but don't mention Harrott - but when these same folks talk to Californians that know the law, they fess up and acknowledge legality.


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA



Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:38:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skammy:
Ameetec-Arms
POF-USA
CMMG (no reply ever sent)
RBPRECISION


There are alot more that didn't bother to reply or I can't remember the name of..



RBPRECISION said no to me, but was cool about it and gave me info of another vendor who would (and did - X2). That is just as good in my book.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:52:21 PM EDT
Chaingun: I am moving to the San Diego area. I live right by AIM and they have been giving me the run around since day one!

bweise: Thanks for the clarification on that. I didn't think about the whole "commerce" side of it...

I'll be joining you guys next weekend and I'll be bringing all 4 of my lowers (stripped) with me!
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:23:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rastro:

Originally Posted By Skammy:
Ameetec-Arms
POF-USA
CMMG (no reply ever sent)
RBPRECISION


There are alot more that didn't bother to reply or I can't remember the name of..



RBPRECISION said no to me, but was cool about it and gave me info of another vendor who would (and did - X2). That is just as good in my book.



Sounds like RBPrecision did alright then. I've dealt with them before, and they seemed pretty reasonable to deal with. And the custom logo Superior Arms receivers they sell are great.

The only company I'd add to the list of people who didn't support CA, is Del-ton, but they're already on there.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 3:49:28 PM EDT
Any FFL not selling is missing out on a financial windfall. One high profile seller is claiming he sold 1,000 at an average mark up of $75.00. you do the math. not a bad first quarter profit and its only Jan 19th.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:11:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Any FFL not selling is missing out on a financial windfall. One high profile seller is claiming he sold 1,000 at an average mark up of $75.00. you do the math. not a bad first quarter profit and its only Jan 19th.



Given that piece of info - which I don't doubt much, even if "1000" is a rough approximation - that means we might be at the 5000-6000 lowers-sold level now. That guy can't be the only one either. There's gotta be several that have done 500 each - aside from the various Calguns group buys.

Good stuff!

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:17:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bwiese:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Any FFL not selling is missing out on a financial windfall. One high profile seller is claiming he sold 1,000 at an average mark up of $75.00. you do the math. not a bad first quarter profit and its only Jan 19th.



Given that piece of info - which I don't doubt much, even if "1000" is a rough approximation - that means we might be at the 5000-6000 lowers-sold level now.



My friend said there were 24 guys in line with him today. most of them buying multiple lower. most of them in their nmid 20's. none of them making any mention of fixed mags.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:13:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
My friend said there were 24 guys in line with him today. most of them buying multiple lower. most of them in their nmid 20's. none of them making any mention of fixed mags.



Well let's hope they're just gonna hold 'em as lowers.

Bill W
San Jose
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:35:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bwiese:
Well let's hope they're just gonna hold 'em as lowers.



There's at least two group buys for uppers at the other site. I'd be surprised if most of the people would have the knowledge to hold off on a full-scale AW build, let alone the discipline to do so.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:03:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FNC80:

There's at least two group buys for uppers at the other site. I'd be surprised if most of the people would have the knowledge to hold off on a full-scale AW build, let alone the discipline to do so.



No kidding. Told my coworker who wants one bad about this deal, and he went out and buy 3 of those receivers. I agree to built the gun for him but told him that I won't do anything until the 90 days registration is available, and his paperwork come back from DOJ. He's more then welcome to figure it out himself though.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:20:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By bwiese:
Well let's hope they're just gonna hold 'em as lowers.



There's at least two group buys for uppers at the other site. I'd be surprised if most of the people would have the knowledge to hold off on a full-scale AW build, let alone the discipline to do so.



If you bought one now and built it as a fixed mag version, and that particular company/model # then went on the list, is there anything to keep you from registering it as an AW and then converting it later at your convenience?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:15:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By bwiese:
Well let's hope they're just gonna hold 'em as lowers.



There's at least two group buys for uppers at the other site. I'd be surprised if most of the people would have the knowledge to hold off on a full-scale AW build, let alone the discipline to do so.



If you bought one now and built it as a fixed mag version, and that particular company/model # then went on the list, is there anything to keep you from registering it as an AW and then converting it later at your convenience?



No. In fact, even if you do nothing to it, it will still need to be registered.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:57:44 PM EDT
That's what I figured. Once registered you can do anything you want to it except make it Federal no-no.
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