I am "threatened" with legal action on an almost weekly basis. 99.9% have no merit, BUT it is the 0.1% that gives me an ulcer.

Does that change the way I practice? Definitely. I don't WANT to invite the scrutiny of the legal system in my world.

With that said, I am absolutely THRILLED that there are some very SMART people (atherd, bwiese and a few others at calguns.net) and some supporting FFLs (10% and Pirate14) that are able see beyond the FUD of .gov who have pursued our 2nd amendment freedoms AND maintained legality in our state's legal morass.

My hope is that the rest of the USA can help us in our endeavor. Especially the .223 self loading stripped lower manufacturers!

Quoted: I am "threatened" with legal action on an almost weekly basis. 99.9% have no merit, BUT it is the 0.1% that gives me an ulcer. Does that change the way I practice? Definitely. I don't WANT to invite the scrutiny of the legal system in my world. With that said, I am absolutely THRILLED that there are some very SMART people (atherd, bwiese and a few others at calguns.net) and some supporting FFLs (10% and Pirate14) that are able see beyond the FUD of .gov who have pursued our 2nd amendment freedoms AND maintained legality in our state's legal morass. My hope is that the rest of the USA can help us in our endeavor. Especially the .223 self loading stripped lower manufacturers!

FUD? I have read that a few times now... what is that?

I learned from bwiese...


FEAR

UNCERTAINTY

DOUBT

Quoted: FUD? I have read that a few times now... what is that?

F)ear, U)ncertainty, & D)oubt...

As I originally recall, it was used by a fledgeling software company (Microsoft) to decribe the marketing tactics of IBM...  Interestingly enough, they now employ many of those same practices.

Quoted: Quoted: FUD? I have read that a few times now... what is that? F)ear, U)ncertainty, & D)oubt... As I originally recall, it was used by a fledgeling software company (Microsoft) to decribe the marketing tactics of IBM...  Interestingly enough, they now employ many of those same practices.

Not all of the people at MS employ those practices, most have graduated to more evil ways.

Quoted: Thanks. But the problem is that all these are 2nd-hand reports.  There are enough of them and they are consistent enough to be believable but no one has a tape recording. Also it just seems to be out of state lower mfgrs and FFLs that are getting this treatment - not the locals.  Local FFLs selling lowers are not being harrassed much other than agents taking down DROS DL info so they can mail out reg papers - so DOJ doesn't have to make a big public announcement about new reg period. As I recall, one Calguns member who got his JP CTR02 (and who really got this off-list fixed-mag AR lower gig in California going) had Dana McK threaten his FFL that when the fixed-mag rifle arrived, they were gonna declare it as an assault weapon and arrest them.   Legally there's no basis for this threat and it's just verbal extortion.   A Calguns thread by user Artherd (Ben) will relate these details further. DOJ agents are not known to know details of CA AW law.  SOme of these guys are the ones that busted a vendor at a Pomona gunshow for having HK trigger groups and other legal parts & accessories -  entirely legal nonserialized components, nothing involving full auto, etc.   AG had to backpedal and charges were dropped. Bill Wiese San Jose

Bill,

Please, if you have contact with the out of state entities, encourage them to make written complaints.  This is the only way these things change.  A verbal complaint to a supervisor may end with a, "I'll talk to him."  A written complaint is investigated and stays in your jacket for at least five years, depending on agency policy; ask me how I know this.  The argument that it's out of state folks complaining has absolutely zero bearing on the complaint.  We, LE agencies, regularly take and investigate complaints from illegal aliens and discipline officers for their actions based on those complaints.  If a number of vendors make corroborating complaints, the pressure will be on DOJ to educate their agents and cease this behavior.

I am not writing this stuff because I have a hard-on for DOJ; one of my best buds is a special agent, not in Firearms, however. I am waiting on a lower and would like to buy more than one if the opportunity comes up.  I could just go down with a letter and get a Colt 6920, but I don't think I should be all that special because of where I work.  It's the principle of the thing.

Please, convince the wronged parties to file complaints if they have been illegally dissuaded from lawful actions or offered incorrect legal advice.  If these actions have not occurred then we should stop talking about it and passing on bad info.

Quoted: Quoted: You know that you probably just lost most of your CA business? What business? I sell nothing but AR and 1911 stuff and I couldn't sell you anything anyway.

The law is confusing and you are proceeding with caution; attempting to verify the ability to ship non-listed AR receivers to the Caliban.  This as a good cautious approach, but I would consider turning up the heat a bit on the DOJ to obtain shipping conformation.  As you post indicates, it's over 10 days now, and we paying customers want an answer.

UPDATE!!! 12-14-05 CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS. WE CANNOT SELL STAG LOWERS IN CALIFORNIA UNTIL DOJ HAS ISSUED AN ORDER SAYING SO. I TALKED WITH STAG THIS MORNING, AND THEY ARE AWAITING THIS RULING. WHEN IT COMES, IN ABOUT 10 DAYS, WE WILL POST IT HERE.

In a business aspect you are missing out on a lot of potential business, not only by selling non-listed lower receivers, but also parts for the AR and 1911.  I could always use more reasonably priced 1911 mags and parts.

Quoted: Quoted: You know that you probably just lost most of your CA business? What business? I sell nothing but AR stuff and I couldn't sell you anything anyway.

 Weird, that never kept anyone who understood the laws from legally selling AR parts here. There are a lot of legal ARs in state that can use uppers, parts kits, etc.

 Being a gun dealer seems like a bad occupational choice for someone who doesn't understand gun laws.

I ain't begging and I ain't pleading. I wish those who do this job for a living understood the laws and regulations. But it's their loss. Plenty of people out there who will sell to CA.

Quoted: What business? I sell nothing but AR stuff and I couldn't sell you anything anyway.

Wow.....explain yourself please.

Quoted: Quoted: You know that you probably just lost most of your CA business? What business? I sell nothing but AR stuff and I couldn't sell you anything anyway.

You can't sell stocks, parts kits, uppers, accesories, etc?

Quoted: Quoted: You know that you probably just lost most of your CA business? What business? I sell nothing but AR stuff and I couldn't sell you anything anyway.

You know I backed you with your first post because it made sense and I thought that it was a very decent business move on your part to notify CA AR owners.

But this last remark just ... I dont know what to say...

Quoted: The time to fight the law and the law makers was before the law was passed,  now is the time to comply with the law.

Can you please justify this statement?  What law are Californian's that  buy a legal product breaking?

Why did you even bother to coment?

Quoted: You know that you probably just lost most of your CA business?

This is pretty rich!  How much merchandise have you or anybody else in CA bought from him?  Why should he risk everything he has worked for to sell a few items at a small profit to a bunch of guys that won't buy anything else from him because they can buy it on the EE for a dollar less?  

If I was an out of state FFL I would make this deal to everyone in CA:  buy the rest of the parts from me first, then I will sell you the lower.  I wouldn't risk my ass to make $20 on a lower and then get no follow up business.

Having said that, I believe there is no risk at all in selling the lowers in CA, but everyone has to come to their own conclusion and make their own business decision.

Quoted: Quoted: You know that you probably just lost most of your CA business? This is pretty rich!  How much merchandise have you or anybody else in CA bought from him?  Why should he risk everything he has worked for to sell a few items at a small profit to a bunch of guys that won't buy anything else from him because they can buy it on the EE for a dollar less?   If I was an out of state FFL I would make this deal to everyone in CA:  buy the rest of the parts from me first, then I will sell you the lower.  I wouldn't risk my ass to make $20 on a lower and then get no follow up business. Having said that, I believe there is no risk at all in selling the lowers in CA, but everyone has to come to their own conclusion and make their own business decision.

Well genuis we never had a reason to buy any ar-15 stuff, but the dealers who did sell us lowers are reaping the parts windfall. Why anybody cares abut this guy who won't sell to Ca is beyond me.

I agree.  There appears to be no shortage of lowers for those willing to do a little legwork on their own or pay a small premium in a group buy.  No shortage of good prices on the rest of the rifle from retailers in CA either.  I got my lowers from a CA retailer and will buy the rest of the parts from the same guy.  All at fair and competitive prices.

Oh yeah, thanks for noticing that I'm a genius.  Few do.

PM me if you need help finding a Double Star.

Quoted: Oh yeah, thanks for noticing that I'm a genius.  Few do.

Quoted: Quoted: You know that you probably just lost most of your CA business? What business? I sell nothing but AR stuff and I couldn't sell you anything anyway.

Will someone PLEASE show the above BOZO the door?

Oh, and Roseco, why are you HERE? It's like like you know anything about CA's laws. Shoo shoo, run along now....

I picked up my Doublestar from the FFL today(I DROS'ed it on Xmas Eve!hock.gif The FFL is 2 hours away and I've been busy. ), I'm pleased.  Compared to my Stag there's a few barely noticable machining marks and dings, nothing to get alarmed about, the finish is a bit greyer than my Stag, I'd compare the finish to some Fulton Armory lowers I've seen in person which I thought were nifty.  The Stag has a bit more rougher-miltary feeling "parkerized" Bushmaster feeling finish compared to the smoother to the touch(almost like a Colt) Doublestar.  By no means am I disappointed, just observing and noting, get what you can and get it now!

I'm about to give it a "Technical Ted(member at calguns.net) CLP marinate".

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4666/doublestarstag8fc.jpg