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Posted: 12/27/2005 11:33:11 PM EDT
I just got enough money for a kit and a receiver, so i'd like to know.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:01:24 AM EDT
Fab10 and vulcan just to name a few.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:35:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 10:35:10 AM EDT by Blue84S10]

Originally Posted By sintax:
Fab10 and vulcan just to name a few.



I think he said AK receivers
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:08:00 PM EDT
haha you are damn right.... All of this AR non-sense has me all on a one track mind.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 2:09:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sintax:
haha you are damn right.... All of this AR non-sense has me all on a one track mind.


This month, I think we ALL have a one track mind!
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 2:36:16 PM EDT
Any help would be most appreciated. Last time I checked CA was running low on AK's.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:04:37 PM EDT


+



+



+



=





Easy as ......1, 2, 3!

...if you can can assembly a COSTCO swingset, you can build an AK!!!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:48:31 AM EDT
Yeah but what you're forgetting MisterSuzuki is thathomebuilt receivers don't have a commercial manufacture and as such can't be added to the list. If they can't be added to the list, they can't be banned, and that means no registration period and no AW. So go ahead and build as many as you want, but they'll never be registered.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:06:13 AM EDT
MisterSuzuki lives in NEVADA, he dont have to REgister Nothing.

cuz if he was living in communist california, and was building all these AW's.. DOJ would be knockin at his door. your internet ISP address leads to your home address. i dont think Mister Suzuki would be dumb enuff to Incriminate himself.

Keep on Building Brutha!!!!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:21:35 AM EDT
BUMP
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:10:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 10:11:38 AM EDT by MisterSuzuki]
If you run through some pages on Gunco, but there are several folks building up 80% lowers in CA, both AR/AK.

I've read through countless pages on this whole thing, and so long as you build a Kasler compliant AR/AK, its all 100% legal.

Remember, even homebuilts were allowed AW registration when the .50 Cal's were banned, and yes, I have 4 So Cal friends who are sitting at home now, with their DOJ letters, and have HOMEBUILT AR .50's.

DROS is NOT a requirement to register an AW, if its a homebuilt.....despite the AW card having a spot for where you bought it.

So yes, it can be done.......so long as you don't engrave your lower as a weapon already banned by name, by Kasler.

Wow....I learned so much just trying to sell some STAG's I had........I should be a dealer!

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:23:23 PM EDT
thanks for the info. correct me if i'm wrong... i coulda sworn ANY rifle with a Kalashnikov action was considered an AW. 410 saiga shot guns, Veprs, anyting AK based regardless of pistol grip or thumbhole stock.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:46:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterSuzuki:
If you run through some pages on Gunco, but there are several folks building up 80% lowers in CA, both AR/AK.

I've read through countless pages on this whole thing, and so long as you build a Kasler compliant AR/AK, its all 100% legal.

Remember, even homebuilts were allowed AW registration when the .50 Cal's were banned, and yes, I have 4 So Cal friends who are sitting at home now, with their DOJ letters, and have HOMEBUILT AR .50's.

DROS is NOT a requirement to register an AW, if its a homebuilt.....despite the AW card having a spot for where you bought it.

So yes, it can be done.......so long as you don't engrave your lower as a weapon already banned by name, by Kasler.

Wow....I learned so much just trying to sell some STAG's I had........I should be a dealer!




Let's just assume home-brews are legal to build, there's still the registration issue of a non-listed manufacturer. The .50 home-brews were legal to register since all 50 BMG firearms are banned by caliber. You can no longer build a 50BMG rifle, but could build a wildcat 50.

The AR/AK is now a registration based on manufacture's name and receiver name. There's room for growth.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:22:39 PM EDT
How does one make a AK SB23 friendly?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:55:48 PM EDT

How does one make a AK SB23 friendly?



If it's not already on the AW list, remove the pistol grip. It wouldn't be any different than a gripless Robinson or Fal. As long as it doesn't have other AW features. As far as which ones aren't listed, check the list. Kasler List

Now, buy a Shotgun News and figure out which ones aren't on the list. Find a distributor that will remove the pistol grip & ship to CA. Find an FFL willing to receive. Once you have it, send the DOJ several letter asking about the legality. This will hip them to adding it onto the list (hopefully). Once added, register it & put on the pistol grip (and anything else for that matter). This is a lot of work, but as stated before, THIS MAY BE THE ONLY TIME YOU WILL EVER BE ABLE TO GET A CA LEGAL AK AGAIN. Simple solution is to move to a free state like AZ or NV. Buy the rifle, do your INSTANT CHECK, walk out with rifle.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:00:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:

Originally Posted By sintax:
haha you are damn right.... All of this AR non-sense has me all on a one track mind.


This month, I think we ALL have a one track mind!



You ain't kidding!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:11:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:

Originally Posted By sintax:
haha you are damn right.... All of this AR non-sense has me all on a one track mind.


This month, I think we ALL have a one track mind!



You ain't kidding!!!!!



I don't get it, what are we all thinking about... SEX
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:17:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 9:17:56 PM EDT by akjunkie]
""The AR/AK is now a registration based on manufacture's name and receiver name. There's room for growth.""


remember the Vepr AK? 308, 5 and 10rd mag? thumbhole stock? ............Banned.

Saiga 12ga, 5rd mag, Straight stock............ Banned.

Saiga 410, 5rd mag, straight stock........... Banned

and the Sporterized AK (forget model #) designed strictly for Hunting.. STRAIGHT stock, 5 & 10rd mag, in 762x39...BANNED.

if memory serves me correctly, ANYthing with a Kalashnikov action is banned in PRK. i remember friends Registering their Saiga shotguns as AW's under SB23.

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:13:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By akjunkie:
""The AR/AK is now a registration based on manufacture's name and receiver name. There's room for growth.""


remember the Vepr AK? 308, 5 and 10rd mag? thumbhole stock? ............Banned.

Saiga 12ga, 5rd mag, Straight stock............ Banned.

Saiga 410, 5rd mag, straight stock........... Banned

and the Sporterized AK (forget model #) designed strictly for Hunting.. STRAIGHT stock, 5 & 10rd mag, in 762x39...BANNED.

if memory serves me correctly, ANYthing with a Kalashnikov action is banned in PRK. i remember friends Registering their Saiga shotguns as AW's under SB23.





From what I read, the Harrot Decision, it removed the banning of the gun by SERIES, of AR/AK.

So......Saiga's should be good to go, but the problem with most of you guys, is finding a FFL, who even knows as much, and is willing to.

My guess...is go with a FFL who is doing the STAG's, and just buy a stripped AK lower.

Or, for those that want to build one......build one up, keep it compliant, and ask the DOJ if they will add your homebuilt (SMITH HOMEBUILT AK with serial XXXXX) to the list, and they may add yours to their list.....or engrave it as a EWBANKS/VULCAN/OOW, etc.....but add some more engravings, and if, and when it is banned...it'll be banned as it has those names on their, or variation of that name.

All you really want, as that precious DOJ letter...... So you can freak out the TSA guys at LAX, when you whip out your Israeli HB FAL, or Cobray M11/9mm with fake Sionics suppressor, and hear people say....."Whoa Buddy....what are you gonna hunt with that?!" .....then mutter....."people", cross your eyes a bit, and start twitching your neck.......with your 2 DOJ letters in front of you.....
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:29:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 12:34:59 AM EDT by NwG]
"My guess...is go with a FFL who is doing the STAG's, and just buy a stripped AK lower." AK's don't have "lowers" like an AR does.. They don't come apart nearly as easy.. Makeing it rather intresting to reload one with a fixed mag

"So......Saiga's should be good to go" Nope..."Hunter Rifle / Saiga" stright from "the list"

There are some big problems with the AK series... SB23 compliant..

Remove the pistol grip and have a detachable mag.. Have fun trying to reach the trigger..

Keep the pistol grip and fix a 10 round mag... Can't load it.. They don't have uppers/lowers like the AR series.. you would have to hack a big chunk out of the top of the receiver to get to the fixed mag..

It also looks to me like they got that list pretty well taken care of...
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:41:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NwG:
"My guess...is go with a FFL who is doing the STAG's, and just buy a stripped AK lower." AK's don't have "lowers" like an AR does.. They don't come apart nearly as easy.. Makeing it rather intresting to reload one with a fixed mag

"So......Saiga's should be good to go" Nope..."Hunter Rifle / Saiga" stright from "the list"

There are some big problems with the AK series... SB23 compliant..

Remove the pistol grip and have a detachable mag.. Have fun trying to reach the trigger..

Keep the pistol grip and fix a 10 round mag... Can't load it.. They don't have uppers/lowers like the AR series.. you would have to hack a big chunk out of the top of the receiver to get to the fixed mag..

It also looks to me like they got that list pretty well taken care of...

Aren't you allowed to make the mag removeable by tool instead of straight up fixing it?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:09:01 AM EDT
Yes you can make it so you have to use a tool to remove the mag.. But you would have to remove the pistol grip BEFORE you removed the mag.. Once the mag is out you now have a 'evil" AW.... It would take 10 min. just to load the thing...
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:33:32 AM EDT
LOL, well if u desperate for an "AK " style rifle... u always got the Romanian Par-1, PUMP action Ak rifle. pistol grip and detachable mag.


the Saiga shotgun that only takes a 5rd mag and nothing else is considered an AW and was required to be Registered.. dont know what u can strip off to make it Not and AW in PRK. any Semi Auto Kalashnikov is Banned.

i remember this well, cuz i was thinking the mini 14/30, m1 carbine and M1/M14.. still takes hi caps.. so what the f*ck is the logic in banning AKs? even teh sporterized ones that only took 5rd/10rd mags.??????
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:56:21 AM EDT
Keep in mind, the receiver is the firearm, a stipped AK receiver costs */- $60.00, buy 2 and put them in the safe, IF they get listed by name (banned) then you could build it into a functioning AK. Once registered you could send them out to be built up or DIY.

Worst case you are out $150 bucks and they are not listed.

Now if you are talking about TFL receiver then you are out a bit more. This is what I was thinking
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:41:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By way-out-west2:
Keep in mind, the receiver is the firearm, a stipped AK receiver costs */- $60.00, buy 2 and put them in the safe, IF they get listed by name (banned) then you could build it into a functioning AK. Once registered you could send them out to be built up or DIY.

Worst case you are out $150 bucks and they are not listed.

Now if you are talking about TFL receiver then you are out a bit more. This is what I was thinking



+1

my point exactly, for you guys.....what's the point of an AR, without its arch rival, the AK?!?!
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:17:35 PM EDT
..so 24 replys and still no answer to the question? Which commercially produced AK is not on the current list?
I dont know much about AKs, but I want one in my collection if it is possible.
Doesnt "Armory"or something like that make an AK receiver?
It isnt on the list
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:31:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 4:33:44 PM EDT by dump1567]
List

Possibly not on list?
catalog.jgsales.com/itemlist.php?classid=1636

I mean you could do a little leg work?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:34:19 PM EDT
How about the SAR series, isn't there are SAR-1, SAR-2 and SAR-3 not listed?

I would expect the DOJ to find other manufacturers not listed, but isn't commerce required for listing?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:00:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
How about the SAR series, isn't there are SAR-1, SAR-2 and SAR-3 not listed?

I would expect the DOJ to find other manufacturers not listed, but isn't commerce required for listing?



Ewbanks, OOW, Global Trades, Vulcan, CAI, Joeken, and countless others........

Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:28:54 PM EDT
OOW is on the list most FFL wont touch it even if it is a different model name
Global Trades?? arent they part of Arsenal Inc. if so then listed
Ewbanks pretty sure those are the Joeken recievers but NOT LISTED
Vulcan didnt they take over Hesse but GRAY AREA- Hesse was listed



Originally Posted By MisterSuzuki:

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
How about the SAR series, isn't there are SAR-1, SAR-2 and SAR-3 not listed?

I would expect the DOJ to find other manufacturers not listed, but isn't commerce required for listing?



Ewbanks, OOW, Global Trades, Vulcan, CAI, Joeken, and countless others........


Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:37:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RKM:
..so 24 replys and still no answer to the question? Which commercially produced AK is not on the current list?
I dont know much about AKs, but I want one in my collection if it is possible.
Doesnt "Armory"or something like that make an AK receiver?
It isnt on the list




doesnt matter if its ON or OFF the list. Kalashnikov action = Banned.

try ordering a 410 5rd saiga shotgun at your local FFL.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:56:31 PM EDT
You cant order a Saiga because it is banned my name
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:47:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By way-out-west2:
You cant order a Saiga because it is banned my name



Is that allowed now since series is no longer allowed. They can't specify "Saiga (all)" any more, it must be specific, like "Saiga Model XYZ" Right?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:22:12 AM EDT
Global Trades is US Armory, not Arsenal. (at least that I am aware of)

Also, as I understand it (all) still applies. It's like saying Colt AR-15 (all) is banned so someone can't say "Oh well I built mine to have a 19.9999999 inch barrel and the listed barrel is 20 inches, so mine is legal." True, if the same thing came out with a different name, like Saigo then it would be ok, but as far as Saigas go, they are off limits.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:24:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 3:27:15 PM EDT by 50Freak]

doesnt matter if its ON or OFF the list. Kalashnikov action = Banned.


Wrong, the whole reason why people are buying unlisted AR/AK receivers is the Kasler decision (banning AK or AR "series" weapons) was made moot by the Harrot case. The court ruled that you cannot ban a "series" of guns as it places the burden on the public to determine what is legal and not legal. And that the DOJ had to specifically name the rifles so that law enforcement and the public could just look up a list and determine what was and was not legal.

So instead of having three types of bans in Cali, (1: specifically named weapons, 2: AK/AR series weapons, 3: Characteristics ban) We now only have to contend to the first ban (where they listed certain types of firearms illegal) and the "characteristics ban (where they determined if something was a AW if it had a pistol grip, folding/collapsable stock etc).

So the thing is if you buy a non listed receiver and as long as you don't put on the characteristics of a AW, it was legal in Cali.

HERE'S THE KICKER!!!.

So people started importing the AR type receivers (with the help of a few highly distributed DOJ letters saying said receivers were legal). Well the DOJ letters all also said something to this extent. "although the receiver is legal, note we plan to add it to the AW list soon". Which means if they do list the "JOEBLOW AR-15" receiver, they by law have to allow you 90 days to register it as a AW. And once it is registered as a AW, guess what, you can put whatever the hell you want on it. Pistol grips, folding stock etc. As you will be in posession of a legally registered AW.

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:27:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
Global Trades is US Armory, not Arsenal. (at least that I am aware of)




Totally correct,

my bad
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:49:09 PM EDT
Can someone PM me information regarding who selling EWBANKS receceirs to Cali FFL. My only chance to EVER own an AK--HELP! Plus, who has DSA FAL's in stock?? PM me, please.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:35:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Can someone PM me information regarding who selling EWBANKS receceirs to Cali FFL. My only chance to EVER own an AK--HELP! Plus, who has DSA FAL's in stock?? PM me, please.



FALs are not important at this time as they are not part of a 'series' definition. Whether or not they update the 'series' lists will have no bearing on FAL receivers: you will still be able to buy them sans for those marked FN.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:24:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoWeird:
Global Trades is US Armory, not Arsenal. (at least that I am aware of)

Also, as I understand it (all) still applies. It's like saying Colt AR-15 (all) is banned so someone can't say "Oh well I built mine to have a 19.9999999 inch barrel and the listed barrel is 20 inches, so mine is legal." True, if the same thing came out with a different name, like Saigo then it would be ok, but as far as Saigas go, they are off limits.



I'm confused with what "all" designates, does it ban by manufacture name or by "Colt AR-15 'name here'" I believe Colt can rename it's receivers making them legal again.
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