Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 12/24/2005 8:32:08 AM EDT
could i register it if they do another registration period, even though I didn't aquire it through legal means?
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:19:03 AM EDT
Even though I'm sure we'd never do that on the off chance that it's illegal, hypothetically the DOJ would never know. Remember, there are no serial numbers on long gun 4473s.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:29:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SC_00_05:
Even though I'm sure we'd never do that on the off chance that it's illegal, hypothetically the DOJ would never know. Remember, there are no serial numbers on long gun 4473s.



Good point!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:43:04 AM EDT
I'd have to dis-agree...Look at Section C under the "SAMPLE" print.



Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:45:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 11:46:21 AM EDT by 14FEVR]
-There is a section on the AWR card that asks u where U got it from, if u put down a dealer, they don't track'em through the DROS system but as u can see they are on the 4473.
-Throw the dice.......it might be nice
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 11:57:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 12:00:15 PM EDT by hawk1]

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
could i register it if they do another registration period, even though I didn't aquire it through legal means?




What part of California are you in? If you're in or will drive to Southern Cal I may be able to help you out on this.

ETA: After posting and re-reading, I want to stress that I will only help in a legal way and no other. The DROS is your friend in this situation.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 12:21:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hawk1:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
could i register it if they do another registration period, even though I didn't aquire it through legal means?




What part of California are you in? If you're in or will drive to Southern Cal I may be able to help you out on this.

ETA: After posting and re-reading, I want to stress that I will only help in a legal way and no other. The DROS is your friend in this situation.



Thanks,
I am in So Cal specifically San Diego Area
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:27:26 PM EDT
If you can buy a stripped stag lower in California it should be fine.

Lets put it like this:

It would be like buying a Fab-10 in Arizona. Or a vulcan, or 80% receiver.

If it's legal, then you can import it.

I think Legal might be a key word. I'm not sure though.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:47:34 PM EDT
i doubt a ffl would transfer it though.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:11:46 PM EDT
ok so now i have a ? what if you get one from out of state, from someone and bring it in to cali a non listed receiver, then would you be able to take it to your ffl and have them do the whole dros 10 day wait and all??
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:54:28 PM EDT
Maybe I need to start reading through the PC again, but I don't recall seeing anything stating for a firearm to be legal, it must have been purchased in California. Now I know that some, such as pistols I believe, you're suppose to register with the DOJ after importing them into the state, but thats only because they need to be registered with them even if you had bought it here. Long guns, that are not banned and are legal for sale, do not require to be registered and can be freely imported.

In your situation, you are simply making a purchase from an FFL, completing their DROS, and then importing it into the state. I would think the hardest part of buying it in Arizona would be to find a dealer who won't give you a dirty look for putting down a California residence... from my experience most will NOT sell to those not a resident of that state, and/or who are not a resident of certain pro-gun states. If you have dual residence... like me hen
If I'm incorrect here guys, please correct! Merry Christmas!!!

Technowizard.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 8:25:51 PM EDT
Well normally a FFL in AZ/NM/TX can sell long guns to anyone w/ ID and if they pass NICS. If u got a FFL to sell u that would be interesting, most won't. Gotta chk CAL DOJ home page for info.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 9:22:56 PM EDT
Actually it must be legal in both states for an out of state resident and all laws must apply.

Most ffl's won't do it because of the hassle...for instance: to be compliant with california's laws, the buyer must wait 10 days to receive his lawfully owned property.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:26:18 AM EDT
I was under the impression that you could buy from any state as long as they ship it to an FFL in California and you wait your 10 days. They can't give it over to you, so going in person kind of defeats the purpose. Maybe I am wrong, that's just what I thought.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:00:26 AM EDT
Long guns are no problem for interstate purchase.....but some states, where you need a FOID, NY/CA,HI, etc.......its no possibly for out of state residents to buy long guns.

I"ve bought long guns in every state.....not all, just KY/TX/AZ/NM, and most states waive the Brady check, if you have a CHL/CCW.....save a few bucks there too!

But no CA dealer would ever sell me anything......but I"msure you can purchase a STAG out of state, keep it out of state....and when the DOJ does ban it, I don't see how it would be illegal to register it, in CA, and even reference the dealer you bought it from.

Unless DROS'ing is a requirement for AW registration....is it? As I have a couple firearms I'd like to throw in, if the DOJ does update.... :)



Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:59:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SC_00_05:
Even though I'm sure we'd never do that on the off chance that it's illegal, hypothetically the DOJ would never know.



The registration form for AWs in Cali includes date and place of purchase. So you would either be incriminating yourself on the reigistration form, or perjuring yourself.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 9:07:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 9:09:24 PM EDT by technowizard]
See this argument just doesn't make sense to me. How are you incriminating yourself? The purchase of the firearm is being completed legally in another state. The CA DOJ has stated that the receiver in question is an unlisted AR-15 and is legal to own and possess in this state. Until stated by them otherwise, it is no different than any other legal long gun. It is not illegal to import legal long guns into the state of California. It is not a crime that a firearm you imported from another state should, after the fact, become declared an AW and be required to be registered.

As far as waiting periods go, that is all in the law of the land. The law of the land in Arizona... and most other states for that matter... do not require any kind of waiting period for rifles. The purchase was not done on Californian soil, therefore California has no say on the waiting period. There is no law that I'm aware of that states that any firearm you intend to import, that you must have had some damn waiting period gone through.

You don't have to buy it from some out of state FFL and have it transfered to a CA FFL, and in turn have them put you through a 10 day waiting period before finally transfering it to you... if you have the means to goto the out of state FFL in person, and they sell it to you, if its not a listed illegal firearm in CA, then hell by all means bring it back home with you! No such thing as a "legal to purchase and possess... uh... but only if you bought it here" law/code. If there is, I'd sure love to see it!

Technowizard
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 9:47:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 9:50:00 PM EDT by MisterSuzuki]

Originally Posted By technowizard:
See this argument just doesn't make sense to me. How are you incriminating yourself? The purchase of the firearm is being completed legally in another state. The CA DOJ has stated that the receiver in question is an unlisted AR-15 and is legal to own and possess in this state. Until stated by them otherwise, it is no different than any other legal long gun. It is not illegal to import legal long guns into the state of California. It is not a crime that a firearm you imported from another state should, after the fact, become declared an AW and be required to be registered.

As far as waiting periods go, that is all in the law of the land. The law of the land in Arizona... and most other states for that matter... do not require any kind of waiting period for rifles. The purchase was not done on Californian soil, therefore California has no say on the waiting period. There is no law that I'm aware of that states that any firearm you intend to import, that you must have had some damn waiting period gone through.

You don't have to buy it from some out of state FFL and have it transfered to a CA FFL, and in turn have them put you through a 10 day waiting period before finally transfering it to you... if you have the means to goto the out of state FFL in person, and they sell it to you, if its not a listed illegal firearm in CA, then hell by all means bring it back home with you! No such thing as a "legal to purchase and possess... uh... but only if you bought it here" law/code. If there is, I'd sure love to see it!

Technowizard



As a resident of the PRK, you fall under PRK law, NOT Arizona. According to the ATF, an interstate sale is permissable, so long as it is legal in BOTH states. CA requires a waiting period/DROS, etc........so its NOT legal for a CA resident to purchase a gun in any state, by driving there.....by CALIFORNIA law. How do I know....been helping some friends with their STAG's I sold them.

Here's the pertinent CA legal stuff:
What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?

All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process. California imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a buyer or transferee. A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun. To buy a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age, and either 1) possess an HSC plus successfully complete a safety demonstration with the handgun being purchased or 2) qualify for an HSC exemption.

As part of the DROS process, the buyer must present "clear evidence of identity and age" which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver's License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles. A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.

If the buyer is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing to the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.

Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

(PC Section 12071)


14. I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?

Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.

Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example:

a. For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction
b. For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of $10.00 per each additional firearm transferred.

(PC section 12072(d))
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:12:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By technowizard:
See this argument just doesn't make sense to me. How are you incriminating yourself?



Because the only way a Cali resident can buy a firearm in another state is to have that out of state FFL holder ship it to a Cali dealer who does the DROS and 10-day wait.

A cali resident cannot accept delivery of a firearm in another state thanks to a federal law that says you must adhere to the laws of both your home state and the state the sale is occuring in.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 10:38:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 10:40:33 PM EDT by technowizard]
I see... hmm... interesting. The federal laws I'll have to read up on, the CA state law is as meaningful to me as toilet paper when dealing with events taking place in another state. Just like none of us here give a rats ass about laws in Arizona... as an example of course. A federal law, however, I'll look up and take more attention to.

Of course this is why the words "United States" is an oxy moron! For this reason I keep my dual residence... not with Arizona, but with the state of Texas. Everyone should establish a second residency in a pro-gun state IMHO.... it really saves you on the BS and headaches from time to time.

1911greg, if I were you, I'd find a buddy to shack up with in AZ for about 2-3 weeks. You'd legally establish a residence your first day there, and could obtain an AZ ID card (which takes about 2+ weeks to be mailed). Of course this is a free country where we don't keep our people behind walls with machine guns, so you're more than free to "move back" to California afterwards. Is this working the system? Yes, and its your god given red blooded american f-ing right to do so if you so choose to!!! Its just up to you and your integrity as to whether or not you're "actually there" for those 2-3 weeks...


Technowizard - Serving my country proudly...despite all the political B*llsh*t!
Top Top