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Posted: 8/28/2003 9:07:46 AM EDT
OK, Arnold has now come out firmly against "assault weapons", which is obviously the main issue for us on this board. But I still think I'm going to vote for him. It sort of mirrors my thoughts on voting for Bush in 2000. Usually I vote libertarian or independent, but after seeing the decimation to our country and our military under Clinton, I knew it was more important to have solidarity and I voted for Bush/Repubs. And though I don't think that Bush is all that smart, I knew that he would put in a great cabinet who are that smart. And he has. I think we're in the same boat again. Arnold's econ team seems to be top notch.
Sure McClintock is the pro-gun candidate with the best chance of winning, but he's never going to win since he doesn't appeal to any swing voters. So a vote for him is worthless.
And while i disagree with Arnold on this issue, the reality is that no matter who is in office the Caliban AW ban will not be repealed.
Maybe some better questions for Arnold would have been where does he stand on the .50 cal ban and shall-issue CCW's. Also remember that Arnold's position on this issue also reflects Bush's position (renewing the '94 ban).
Anyways, what are your guys thoughts on Arnold? Am I crazy?
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 9:27:55 AM EDT
I just saw his tv ad so here is his website.

www.joinarnold.com
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 9:53:01 AM EDT
He also said he'd support requiring background checks for all sales by FFL holders, including at gun shows.

Reading between the lines, all he's said is he supports EXISTING California law, which is like saying nothing at all. Or he's completely ignorant of current law. Or both.

I want to know if he'd sign any additional restrictions into law.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 9:53:11 AM EDT
No way I'm voting for Arnold.

Bustamonte is gonna get the left wing votes.

Arnould is going to get the spineless "moderates".

Tom McClintock is going to get the conservatives.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 11:28:52 AM EDT
the thing is there are more spineless moderates than there are left and right wingers.
the ones in the middle are the key votes to getting elected.

like everyone else id like to see mc clintock win it, but im fearing ole busta' winning it all, and i think we might be more F**Ked with busta than with arnold.
maybe if more repubs were to drop out mc clintock would pick up more numbers, like he did when simon dropped out.
ill have to see what the numbers look like before voting, if its really tight between arnold and busta then i might have to go with arnold. but if arnold is way ahead then ill go mcClintock.

im not overly worried with arnold over the gun issue, it sounds like hes killing issue and telling the antis what they want to hear. it prolly wouldnt be much of an issue except swinestain is making it a big one, and she holds a lot of power and is supporting fag davis, and since arnold makes violent movies its a real easy attack point for the dems.
i think deep down arnold may be more progun than people want to believe.

and now my pet peeve -- why MORE repubs cant win in kali ....the abortion issue.
saying your a prolife repub is like hanging yourself in this state. why did so many people like riordan? cuz he was a prochoice repub (RINO). there are far too many people in this state that vote on abortion rights alone, and the repubs having been shooting themselves in the foot over this issue. they at least need to stop using the term "prolife", then maybe things will swing back to the center or slightly right of center.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 3:30:55 PM EDT
A sister, also a democRat, is voting NO on recall, and McClintock if the recall goes. She likes the looks of Davis () but doesn't think Arnold has any experence. She doesn't trust Bustamonte.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 4:04:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2003 4:11:27 PM EDT by hawk1]
McClintock all the way. For those that say "they don't want to waste their vote" I say take a stand and don't be such a pussy about it. That, or be a fuckin lemming and follow whover the media tells you is the frontrunner. You may try to ignore Arnolds anti-gun ideas and still vote for him. That's your choice. But remember you did have a another choice.

Link Posted: 8/29/2003 12:30:27 AM EDT
Well if it comes realistically down to Arnold or Cruz, explain again at that time why splitting the Republican vote to allow Bustamante in is a good thing.

If they can rake Bustamante over the coals on MECHA, and increasing taxes on the job providers, maybe a split won't be another disaster and McLintock won't be a problem, but until Bustamante is out of the picture he is the bigger enemy and defeating him needs to take precedence over anything else.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 1:53:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Well if it comes realistically down to Arnold or Cruz, explain again at that time why splitting the Republican vote to allow Bustamante in is a good thing.



Becuase the left wing vote is as equally splint between Bustamonte, Flynt, Carmejo, and ARNOLD. There are a ton of young first generation Mexican american voters who will be voting for Arnold.

This isnt like a normal electio where you have two major candidates and 4 or 5 minor candidates. In this election there are several major candidates and dozens of minor candidates.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 6:10:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2003 6:11:17 AM EDT by Duffy]
First gen Mexican voters won't vote for their own kin?
Arnold said Bustamante (aka skip a meal, slim!) is Davis with a mustache and a residing (sic) hair line, I think he was too kind. To his credit though, Bust-open-another-burito-wrap said the candidates should be judged on their future performance and not on their past, maybe they can put the dirt slinging tactics on hold for this one...
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 12:23:04 PM EDT
we gotta beat 2 people in this race 1) davis (pretty much a done deal), and 2) busta'.
i dont see any other left wing candidate who is trailing close enough to make any sort of impact.
i think busta is hard core left wing enough to pick up the majority of liberal votes, so the green party i dont think will have too much of an affect.

what has arnold said about guns? that he supports the brady bill and the AW ban? big deal, didnt GW say the same thing?
i think hes just squashing the issue, he hasnt said that he supports a 50cal ban or ammo tax (those state gun issues), or would ban guns when he gets elected.
now if the repubs could kill the issue on abortion then they might be onto an winning strategy.

if busta wins we are f**ked GUARANTEED, if arnold wins there is a BIT of a chance. ill take a BIT over nothing at all.
if the polls are close between these 2 guys and no one else, then voting for arnold would be a last ditch effort at SURVIVAL.

also consider that having a republican even if its a RINO in office is good for GW, and good for kali's future at maintaining a Repub in office and possibly getting more repubs into state offices.
i sure dont think busta is going to campaign for other repubs or GW in '04.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 7:35:34 PM EDT
I threw my vote away when I voted for Pete Wilson in '94 to keep Kathleen Brown out of office. Then we were stuck with Pete Wilson.

I threw my vote away when I voted for Dan Lundgren in '98 (in spite of all his mis-deeds) to keep Joe Davis out of office. Even so, we still got Gray.

I threw my vote away on Bill Simon in 2002 to keep Joe Davis from continuing his destruction of CA. Guess what? The Davis legacy continues.

So explain to me why it is, that in this historically successful recall election, that I must throw my vote away once again on some idiot actor who is as anti-gun as every last elected governor or major candidate for governor that we've seen in CA for the last decade?

If we all keep voting for the guy who doesn't suck as much as the other guy, we will always have sub-standard elected officials in office. It's that simple.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:50:24 PM EDT
if you want to look at it as throwing your vote away then so be it, i see it as voting strategicly, and until a worthy politician shows up who has a half a chance at winning i dont see too many other options.

if you voted for perot then you got klintor, if you voted for nader then you got GW. im sure the perot voters would be much happier with bush sr. than klinter, and the nader voters would prefer gore over GW.

believe me it f**king SUCKS, but its what we got to work with. so IF things are close we vote either Big Evil or Less Evil or 3rd party and we get Big Evil.
theres no guarantee that voting Less Evil will keep Big Evil out of our lives, its all a gamble. im just trying to go with the better odds not to lose as big as we could.

i hope things change dramaticly for mc clintock, i hope he over takes both front runners, hes the guy that deserves the job, but i think hes still a bit of a longshot at the moment.
i think if arnold and all repubs were to drop out and throw total support and tons of cash to mc clintock im afraid we would still see busta win it.

thats just the way i see things.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 10:16:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 4:23:48 PM EDT
Somebody has Arnold's gun stance wrong, he supports further gun-control including background checks for all gun purchases regardless.
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 4:55:15 PM EDT
I understand the logic behind casting the Schwarzenegger vote, but if he wins, what will it be in 2006? Ahnold, once again, will be the "winning choice" because the Republicans aren't going to run a different candidate against an imcumbent.
And even if Governor Ahnold heads off every anti-gun bill that hits his desk (which I don't believe he will) we'll still be stuck with Ahnold in the end because he'll be the lesser of two evils once again.

We Californians need elected officials that will take a proactive approach to our cause. Ahnold doesn't fit that bill.

I'd rather spend the next month getting anyone who's leaning towards voting for Ahnold because "he can win", to give it a second thought and vote McClintock instead. That to me is the longshot that we gun owners should be taking. NOT the longshot that Ahnold simply won't do very much damage when he's in office. Of course, the success of what I propose hinges entirely upon getting gun owners to put some effort into something for a change and do something for the good of the group instead of taking the easy way out and praying.
Ahnold, unfortunately, won't be dropping out and throwing his support to another candidate anytime soon - so that option isn't available. He's already plunked down some serious cash for this race and he has nothing to lose by riding it out until the end, win or lose.
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 6:07:28 PM EDT
basura -- i totally agree

the NRA, CRPA and gun owners really need to get out and boost mc clintocks numbers. maybe we can turn this into a 3 man race and not a 2 man race with a distant 3rd runner.

the problem for kali gun owners is that the politicians who support us and deserve to be in office have lower odds of winning elections.

using the BS polls as a measuring tool -- if arnold is way ahead then vote for McClintock, and vote for him if his poll numbers are ahead or near busta.
but if McClintock is way behind with very little hope, and busta is ahead of arnold or painfully near him then ......what do we do as a last ditch effort to keep things from getting worse?
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 12:48:52 AM EDT
I like McClintock, but will vote for Ahhnold. Learn the lesson of Florida 2000 - every vote counts.

With Ahhnold, conservatives get 50% of what they want - fiscal responsibility. With Bustamante, you get ZERO.

A vote for Tom Mc splits the conservative vote and Bustamante wins! Tom Mc will never get more than single digits in the polls.

The election will be pretty close between Ahhnold and Bustamante, so every vote will count. The major (liberal) media will heavily favor Bustamante, and will launch a negative campaign against any Republican canidate. The idea is to turn off Rep voters so they refuse to go vote and the Dems win again.
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 8:36:16 AM EDT
I have a slightly different priority than most people on this board, it seems...

When I return to CA from KY in Oct, my issue isn't whether or not I'm permitted to buy new weapons, or carry pistols around. I have a slightly more pressing issue:

The economy.

Like many of the persons in my circle in the IT industry in the SF Bay Area, I've been laid off for a year and a half. I need an administration which is capable of producing an economy which increases the available jobs. So do my friends. At least I have the advantage as a Guardsman that I can work on a semi-regular basis for the Army, and it keeps me alive.

Frankly, the current Democratic administration has proven somewhat economically incompetent. It's time for someone else to get a chance, and whoever that is, it can't be any worse. As a result, given that Bustamente has a decent chance of winning, I find myself in the position that I need to vote for whoever the opposition is that has the greatest chance of knocking out Bustamente. If this is Arnold, so be it.

This country needs the single transferrable vote... alas, no politician in office would even consider such a move.. <sigh>

NTM
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 9:11:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DnPRK:

With Ahhnold, conservatives get 50% of what they want - fiscal responsibility. With Bustamante, you get ZERO.



So how's Ahnold going to do it - rescue us from financial disaster and give us fiscal responsibility?

Will it be anything like his big money campaign to get Prop. 49 passed last election? If so, expect to see even more unfunded mandate programs (like 49) come down from above and even more non-existent money get diverted to wherever Ahnold see's it fit. If Ahnold was serious about "fixing" the budget crisis without tax increases, Prop. 49 should be the first thing to be scrapped.
Ahnold isn't going to be able to save us from the last five years of over-spending that Davis and his ilk have been doing. In reality, nobody will be likely to do this, especially a newly elected governor in for a shortened term.

As for McClintock being the wedge that splits the so-called conservative vote - IMO, there is only one conservative candidate (and it's not Ahnold) so it's an irrelevant charge.

And more to the point of AR15.com, when Lockyer decides which guns are no longer good for us commoners and amends the list of evil, baby-killing assault weapons, how will Ahnold (the guy who opposes assault weapons) help us out?
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 11:41:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BasuraBlanca:

So how's Ahnold going to do it - rescue us from financial disaster and give us fiscal responsibility?


Use his veto to say NO! We naturally expect the Dem majority in the CA legistature to propose all kinds of idiotic and extravagant expenditures as payback to their special interest groups. The thing that was lacking for the past 5 years is adult leadership to say NO! to "the kiddies in the candy store".
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 5:05:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DnPRK:

With Ahhnold, conservatives get 50% of what they want - fiscal responsibility. With Bustamante, you get ZERO.



A Bustamonte win swings the State Gov all the way to the left. With his racist MECHA agenda he will create more republicans, and enrage existing ones, and the political popular opinion will come crashing back to the right, just in time for the next general elections. When we can elect a real fiscally conservation, libertarian leaning "republican"
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 7:07:40 PM EDT
Ar15fan -
With all due respect, your positive thinking is noble and refreshing but somewhat naive. The turnover that you predict, from Dems. to Reps. and the general political climate going from Socialist left to hardcore-conservative right, isn't going to happen. The population centers in CA lean faaaaaaar left, are well organized and vote consistently along party lines. The same is just not true for the conservative voice in CA.

Bustamante is merely Davis with a different face (and quite a few more pounds on him). Because of this, there will be no "swing" if Cruz wins because the high office state government is already completely filled with lefties.

And unfortunately, everytime a candidate comes along that meets the qualities that you describe (i.e Libertarian-leaning), there are a thousand reasons that voters won't take a chance on them. When is the last time you remember seeing a ballot with a really good candidate with a chance to win a high office position come along?
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 9:37:43 PM EDT
more fuel for the fire.... www.joinarnold.com/en/agenda/arnoldsviews.php#Z1


Where do you stand on gun control?

I am a strong supporter of the second amendment. The U.S. constitution allows for law-abiding citizens to own a firearm.

I also believe that there are responsibilities that gun owners must follow in owning a firearm. I support the Brady bill, I support the current assault weapons ban and I believe that guns must have safety devices or be stored as to prevent accidental discharge.
---------------------------------------

yer thoughts?
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 10:46:18 PM EDT
What about the statements made by Warren Buffet suggesting that Prop. 13 be repealed? I know Ahnold has voiced his opinion that he does not agree with this, but it should at least worry anyone that's going to vote for him.
An attack on Prop. 13 would literally tax us into the stratosphere.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 8:23:59 AM EDT
Bustamante gets my vote ... for the fattest f*ck in the race!

Heard Arnold on KFI yesterday and the guy is really sounding like a politician - not directly answering questions and avoiding the issues...really dissapointing.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 4:38:40 PM EDT
im not too worried about the prop 13 issue, cuz i dont own a house
but seriously, if anything was to KILL kali or cause a revolution this issue would be IT.
even if they remove prop13 status for bidnesses it would push them all out of state, wanna hurt the economy more? then do this.
without prop13 status the housing market would tank, people would move out, and those that stayed wouldnt stand for it, neither would any politician that wants to keep there job.


arnold was CSULB campus today, didnt hear what he said but i guess it was mostly about fitness and education. a few people walking around with arnold signs and even a few with anti-arnold signs.
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