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Posted: 1/23/2006 5:09:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 5:24:19 PM EDT by xtant23]
Okay guys. Here's the story. I sold a hunting rifle. I am a private individual living in Texas. The new owner lives in Jacksonville, Florida. I told him to send me the money and a copy of the ffl. When he went to a dealer that he has never used before, the guy was a real treat. First he said that the only way he would accept the gun was if I included a copy of my ffl or a copy of a ffl. The guy didn't know what to say so he just got the ffl and called me and asked if I could send a copy which I tried to explain to him that all I had to send was a copy of my drivers license showing who the gun came from and a bill of sale so they could log it in their books and he agreed with me but said the dealer would not listen. So I asked for the phone number and called this guy named Mike and asked for a clarification. He said the exact same bs story. He didn't want to listen. I explained to him that I have had many guns sent to my ffl dealer by private individuals and never once had an ffl from them. I even explained to him how would he log it in his books showing it from another dealer if it was in my name. Anyway, he said he asked an atf agent and she said he is not to accept any guns from non-ffl dealers. I asked who the agent was that he spoke to. All he said was her name was Carla. I said I would be trying to contact her for clarification. The kicker is, this d**khead dealer even has the balls to charge $55 to transfer this thing in. So I called atf in Jacksonville and talked to the operator. Left a message for Carla to call me back with clarification. I've done probably ten different transfers out-of-state and never once have I had a dealer reject my shipment and probably another 15 sent to me and my dealer never questioned it coming from a non-dealer. I know this is an old subject that has been brought up many many times, but I wanted to make sure nothing has changed. The way I read the law and what I printed from the atf is this: B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's own state? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]


So, any of you guys from Florida, have you ever had any problems receiving a rifle from a private individual? And also, if anybody knows of a good dealer in Jacksonville that is not going to be a jerk to me or my buyer around, that would be great. I don't really want to mention this gun store, but he is supposedly the largest dealer in Jacksonville. PLEASE HELP!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:17:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By xtant23:
So, any of you guys from Florida, have you ever had any problems receiving a rifle from a private individual? And also, if anybody knows of a good dealer in Jacksonville that is not going to be a jerk to me or my buyer around, that would be great. I don't really want to mention this gun store, but he is supposedly the largest dealer in Jacksonville. PLEASE HELP!!!!!



Some ffl dealers can be real dickheads. Yes, I've come across dealers that will not accept from individuals. I've also come across dealers that will not accept receivers only. So I use 3 different ffl dealers in my area.......

Tell your buyer to find another dealer ($55.00?) that charges less, and will accept from an individual. Otherwise, you need to transfer the rirle out to an ffl (on your end), this will end up costing a lot of money for this guy.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:55:46 PM EDT
Let me know how it goes.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:20:07 AM EDT
$55 for a transfer? Won't accept from a non-FFL?





Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:11:34 AM EDT
you have mail
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:47:17 PM EDT
Try All County Trading at the beach Charlie is a nice fellow when I lived out there I used to get all kinds of stuff from him got my first HK from him.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:45:03 PM EDT
Okay guys, here's the update. I talked to an agent by the name of Carla with the ATF, she was just about as nice as nice can be. I was a little nervous at first not knowing if she would understand the law as well as I would hope. But to my surprise, she was on top of it and told me should would have never told a gun shop that they could not receive a firearm through a private individual. I even asked her to call the store and let him know that because the guy was such a turkey. She put me on hold, called him and explained to him what is going on and to find out, that was just his policy, but he didn't tell his employees that it was his policy, he told them it was the law because he didn't want to handle private transfers. So, I thanked Carla for her time and effort, contacted my buyer and told him what was up, asked him to find another dealer or I would. The problem is, he's an older guy and that gun store just happens to be right by his house and for some reason, he didn't care about paying $55, which kind of pissed me off considering I pay $10 for transfers here in Texas. So he said he would contact the owner and talk to him personally since he kind of knew him. He called me back five minutes later and told me to ship the gun, that he would accept it this one time. What a pain in my ass this has been, to sell a gun that I'm not even making money on, but losing. The moral of the story is, if you ever sell a gun, let them know that you are not a ffl holder and you would be personally shipping the gun yourself and if their dealer doesn't like it, find another one. Thanks guys for all the replies and ims, I really appreciate it. Thanks, Shawn
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:11:25 PM EDT
Sounds like I found a dealer of the same sort here in Texas. The first one I found wanted 10% or $30 whichever was greater and I was buying a real HK93 (you do the math on that transfer). I asked why so much and he got a little snotty saying that he is running a business and has to pay for his license. Well, my one transfer would pay for the next six years of his damn license...

Anyhow I found another dealer who charged a flat $50 - a lot better than the first but still high as hell for three minutes of paperwork. So I get his FFL and send it off to the seller. The seller then sends the rifle to dealer #2. I go today and the rifle is there but the dealer won't release it to me until he gets an FFL from the sender. Again, I question the guy behind the counter and he says that the law changed when the AW ban went away and that he needs the FFL... So I do all the paperwork and I get an all OK from the NICS thing but I still can't take home my rifle. I'll go back on Monday and see if I can get it sorted out.

Lucky for me I've found another guy to do my future transfers who charges $10. Why is it that the supposed professionals don't know anything about the transfer process while the kitchen-dealers are all up to speed on the laws?

So, can someone point me to a link that has all the rules about this stuff? Proof is in the pudding as they say...

Spooky
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 2:35:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 2:46:32 PM EDT by xtant23]

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
Sounds like I found a dealer of the same sort here in Texas. The first one I found wanted 10% or $30 whichever was greater and I was buying a real HK93 (you do the math on that transfer). I asked why so much and he got a little snotty saying that he is running a business and has to pay for his license. Well, my one transfer would pay for the next six years of his damn license...

Anyhow I found another dealer who charged a flat $50 - a lot better than the first but still high as hell for three minutes of paperwork. So I get his FFL and send it off to the seller. The seller then sends the rifle to dealer #2. I go today and the rifle is there but the dealer won't release it to me until he gets an FFL from the sender. Again, I question the guy behind the counter and he says that the law changed when the AW ban went away and that he needs the FFL... So I do all the paperwork and I get an all OK from the NICS thing but I still can't take home my rifle. I'll go back on Monday and see if I can get it sorted out.

Lucky for me I've found another guy to do my future transfers who charges $10. Why is it that the supposed professionals don't know anything about the transfer process while the kitchen-dealers are all up to speed on the laws?

So, can someone point me to a link that has all the rules about this stuff? Proof is in the pudding as they say...

Spooky

What a crock of you know what! You know, since he has your gun, that is legally your gun and he won't release it to you, ask him what ATF agent told him that and tell him that's not the law and you'll be more than glad to contact the ATF for him to clarify this for him. Just go the the ATF webpage. They have listings for each state with district offices throughout. Contact them, ask for an agent who handles ffl transfers and explain to them the situation and I'm sure they'll be more than glad to call the dealer for you. You know, the reason why I asked questions was because it had been so long since I had shipped a gun and I wasn't sure if the law did change. Now that I know it didn't, this is the kind of crap that just drives me nuts. The bottom line is, that's your gun and he needs to release it to you. And as far as transfers go, the guy that I used to use and will still use the next time I get a gun, is Craig Smith with RCS Unltd. in Anna, Texas. He charges $10 plus he's a class 3 dealer. He's just north of McKinney. Keep us informed how your ordeal turns out. Good luck, Shawn

www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's own state? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3
), 27 CFR 178.29]
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:02:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xtant23:

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
Sounds like I found a dealer of the same sort here in Texas. The first one I found wanted 10% or $30 whichever was greater and I was buying a real HK93 (you do the math on that transfer). I asked why so much and he got a little snotty saying that he is running a business and has to pay for his license. Well, my one transfer would pay for the next six years of his damn license...

Anyhow I found another dealer who charged a flat $50 - a lot better than the first but still high as hell for three minutes of paperwork. So I get his FFL and send it off to the seller. The seller then sends the rifle to dealer #2. I go today and the rifle is there but the dealer won't release it to me until he gets an FFL from the sender. Again, I question the guy behind the counter and he says that the law changed when the AW ban went away and that he needs the FFL... So I do all the paperwork and I get an all OK from the NICS thing but I still can't take home my rifle. I'll go back on Monday and see if I can get it sorted out.

Lucky for me I've found another guy to do my future transfers who charges $10. Why is it that the supposed professionals don't know anything about the transfer process while the kitchen-dealers are all up to speed on the laws?

So, can someone point me to a link that has all the rules about this stuff? Proof is in the pudding as they say...

Spooky

What a crock of you know what! You know, since he has your gun, that is legally your gun and he won't release it to you, ask him what ATF agent told him that and tell him that's not the law and you'll be more than glad to contact the ATF for him to clarify this for him. Just go the the ATF webpage. They have listings for each state with district offices throughout. Contact them, ask for an agent who handles ffl transfers and explain to them the situation and I'm sure they'll be more than glad to call the dealer for you. You know, the reason why I asked questions was because it had been so long since I had shipped a gun and I wasn't sure if the law did change. Now that I know it didn't, this is the kind of crap that just drives me nuts. The bottom line is, that's your gun and he needs to release it to you. And as far as transfers go, the guy that I used to use and will still use the next time I get a gun, is Craig Smith with RCS Unltd. in Anna, Texas. He charges $10 plus he's a class 3 dealer. He's just north of McKinney. Keep us informed how your ordeal turns out. Good luck, Shawn

www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's own state? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3
), 27 CFR 178.29]



After I saw this and another thread here, I called and talked to the shop. He started off by saying that a non-licensee to a licensed dealer is illegal and that the shop had actually called ATF with this very question and that ATF said it had to be a dealer-to-dealer transfer, so I can't really blame the guy. But after reading this to him, he said he will talk to the boss on Monday. I asked if it was just shop policy and it isn't. So, hopefully they can figure it out Monday and I can get my gun. If not, I might have them call the local ATF guys and see if they really got it right the first time they asked. I would hope that ATF would at least keep their FAQ section up to date so as to not create new criminals through their own inability to make regular updates... but that might be asking too much from the folks who brought you Ruby Ridge and Waco...

Spooky
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:06:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 5:09:10 PM EDT by stangboy555]
I came up with a solution to the Jacksonville, FL FFL transfer issue. Buy alot of things at once and have it transferred to someone NOT in Jacksonville. If you drive about an hour in any direction you can get up to three tansfers for under $30 as opposed to ~$45 per item in town.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:19:48 PM EDT
try St, John's Firearms in St. Augustine ( edge of J-ville)
those guys are WAY COOL!
exit 329 I-95, one mile east on right.
Right beside it is a good BBQ joint too, and cute girlies work there!
A win win eat kinda fun adventure!
Tell the truck driver sent ya!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:21:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 5:29:29 PM EDT by Outsider_10fp]
Dupe, Sorry
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:24:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 5:28:57 PM EDT by Outsider_10fp]
Dupe sorry, again
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:46:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Outsider_10fp:
try St, John's Firearms in St. Augustine ( edge of J-ville)
those guys are WAY COOL!
exit 329 I-95, one mile east on right.
Right beside it is a good BBQ joint too, and cute girlies work there!
A win win eat kinda fun adventure!
Tell the truck driver sent ya!


They want $50 per transfer too.
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