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Posted: 1/10/2006 4:38:40 PM EDT
I am researching into getting a can for the rifle, but was told that the sheriff won't sign off here in Hillsborough county.

Are there any other options? Any recomendations on who to purchase from??

Osprey21????
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:54:20 PM EDT
Chief of Police?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:55:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 4:55:46 PM EDT by terma-nator]

Originally Posted By stang1:
I am researching into getting a can for the rifle, but was told that the sheriff won't sign off here in Hillsborough county.

Are there any other options? Any recomendations on who to purchase from??

Osprey21????


Why won't he sign your form 4? Does he know that he's not giving permission to get the can? Just that you aren't breaking any law by owning one. Does he know that you can sue him to get him to sign? or that you can just form a living trust, or Corp. instead of him signing?

He can't prevent you from getting it.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:12:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stang1:
I am researching into getting a can for the rifle, but was told that the sheriff won't sign off here in Hillsborough county.

Are there any other options? Any recomendations on who to purchase from??

Osprey21????



form a living trust or a corp/llc those will exerpt the cleo... but yes ask osprey or tony k....


good luck, im in the same boat... aza
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:13:58 PM EDT
We live in the unicorporated part of the county, so I fall under the SO's jurisdiction. I have heard of incorporation, but that is something else I have to research. Thanks
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:37:53 PM EDT
The Sheriff WILL NOT sign off on Class III stuff in Hillsborough County(something to do with his lawyers), you will probably have to set up a living trust ot incorporate
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:23:47 AM EDT
I just completed my Trust, it was very easy. Also there are no annual taxes or fees.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:29:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 9:35:40 AM EDT by CS223]
You can go to the state attorney for your district and get him to sign off. Google search will turn up the info, that's who signs here in Alachua County albeit it takes him forever.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:03:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
I just completed my Trust, it was very easy. Also there are no annual taxes or fees.


Well there ya go!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:08:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 10:10:11 AM EDT by stangboy555]
stang1, since we're both stang people, IM me. I can assist with a Trust if that's the route you'd like to go.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:05:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 1:06:43 PM EDT by M4-TUNA]

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
I just completed my Trust, it was very easy. Also there are no annual taxes or fees.

Send me some info on the trust thing, Slug- O mention of this months aga but U are the first for me to know it is good to go with the Trust deal. OUT. Tuna
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:29:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 1:34:05 PM EDT by stangboy555]
For Tuna and Stang1:

A trust is treated just like a corp when it comes to Form 4's. You fill out all of the info just like a Corp, also your Trust will have a name, something like "Stangboy555 Revocable Living Trust".

Here are the main steps/ingredients to a Trust.

Part 1. You. Your name will appear in the title of the trust document. You'll also automatically be named the grantor and trustee of your trust.

Part 2. Trustees. Someone to take over as trustee of your trust after your death or incapacity.

Part 3. Property to Be Held in Trust. All the items of property you intend to hold in trust.

Part 4. Beneficiaries of Trust Property. People who get the stuff in part 3 after you croak.

I used Quicken Willmaker 2006 which really helped out.. All I did was plug in 4 names of people I trusted and a list of items I wanted in the trust and the software drafted everything for me, it included all of the legal mumbo jumbo and disclaimers. From there you just find a notary and 2 witnesses. I went to my Bank and they notarized it for me on the spot. In FL your not required to file it with anyone so as soon as it's notarized and signed you can go straight to the Class III dealer, just make sure you tell someone about it. A Trust is worthless if you die on the way to pic up your new suppressor and no one else knows it exists. The Trust is good until well after your dead and your family blows your cash. There are also no taxes or regulations, all you have to do is add the NFA item to your Property Sheet or remove it if you ever sell it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:24:36 PM EDT
You have got to be kidding me. Nothing can be that easy. With this you and who ever you name in the trust can possess the weapons? Have you done this? I don't have much of a problem with a CLEO sign off but it can be a pain waited months for my boss to sign for a few and he won't sign for suppressors PERIOD. I see a trust in my future.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:10:12 PM EDT
Where can I find out more Information about this. After last weekends shoot I would like to get some new toys. Does this also work for things you already own. i.e. taking my semi and swapping out parts and making it auto or building my own suppressor?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:19:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Regnar33:
Where can I find out more Information about this. After last weekends shoot I would like to get some new toys. Does this also work for things you already own. i.e. taking my semi and swapping out parts and making it auto or building my own suppressor?

U still have to follow the ATF guide lines.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:45:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
For Tuna and Stang1:

A trust is treated just like a corp when it comes to Form 4's. You fill out all of the info just like a Corp, also your Trust will have a name, something like "Stangboy555 Revocable Living Trust".

Here are the main steps/ingredients to a Trust.

Part 1. You. Your name will appear in the title of the trust document. You'll also automatically be named the grantor and trustee of your trust.

Part 2. Trustees. Someone to take over as trustee of your trust after your death or incapacity.

Part 3. Property to Be Held in Trust. All the items of property you intend to hold in trust.

Part 4. Beneficiaries of Trust Property. People who get the stuff in part 3 after you croak.

I used Quicken Willmaker 2006 which really helped out.. All I did was plug in 4 names of people I trusted and a list of items I wanted in the trust and the software drafted everything for me, it included all of the legal mumbo jumbo and disclaimers. From there you just find a notary and 2 witnesses. I went to my Bank and they notarized it for me on the spot. In FL your not required to file it with anyone so as soon as it's notarized and signed you can go straight to the Class III dealer, just make sure you tell someone about it. A Trust is worthless if you die on the way to pic up your new suppressor and no one else knows it exists. The Trust is good until well after your dead and your family blows your cash. There are also no taxes or regulations, all you have to do is add the NFA item to your Property Sheet or remove it if you ever sell it.



OMG Please tell me it's that easy!!!!!!!

Stangboy what kind of waiting times are you seeing using this process?

MikeV
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:48:05 PM EDT
I'll let you know guys know how it goes. I just finished my Trust and I'm in the process of buying my first suppressor from CS223. The paper work should be started next week. It took some time to hunt down the right prices and the right people. From everyone that I've consulted with and who's gone through this process, I have 100% confidence that I've done everything right.

As far as the Trust goes. Yes it's that easy. All you need is something to put into the Trust, whether it be your favorite pistol or your $100k bank account. As long as it owns something and it's been notarized by a state approved notary, it's legal. It only gets complicated when you try to transfer real estate and bank accounts into it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:59:01 PM EDT
How much does it cost to get a lawyer to do the legal mumbo jumbo and get the ball rolling, I dont think I can just start writing on paper
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:43:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 3:43:32 AM EDT by Punani]
Oh my!

Tag, that seems simple.

What is the process after the trust for actually getting a can or short barrel?
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:30:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RCSTZ71:

OMG Please tell me it's that easy!!!!!!!



Yes, It really is that easy.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:49:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
Oh my!

Tag, that seems simple.

What is the process after the trust for actually getting a can or short barrel?


Send a copy of the trust contract along with the form 4, or form 1, then sit back and wait.

and wait, and wait, and wait......
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:22:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 5:23:39 AM EDT by stangboy555]

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
How much does it cost to get a lawyer to do the legal mumbo jumbo and get the ball rolling, I dont think I can just start writing on paper


Willmaker 2006 was my "lawyer" in a box. All you do is plug in some names and the items that you want in the Trust and it writes everything for you.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:13:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 11:34:48 AM EDT by terma-nator]

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
I'll let you know guys know how it goes. I just finished my Trust and I'm in the process of buying my first suppressor from CS223.

As far as the Trust goes. Yes it's that easy. All you need is something to put into the Trust, whether it be your favorite pistol or your $100k bank account. As long as it owns something and it's been notarized by a state approved notary, it's legal. It only gets complicated when you try to transfer real estate and bank accounts into it.



Originally Posted By stangboy555:
In FL your not required to file it with anyone so as soon as it's notarized and signed you can go straight to the Class III dealer, just make sure you tell someone about it. There are also no taxes or regulations, all you have to do is add the NFA item to your Property Sheet or remove it if you ever sell it.



This is true. You left out one very important fact, however.
In order to use the trust for NFA Items,you need to file this trust with the state.

BATF will accept any "legal entity" recognized as such by your state of residence. Some trusts do qualify; others do not. As far as "living" trusts, "revokable" trusts and "irrevokable" trusts, you need to consult an attorney to make sure they are state-recognized. In general, this means that BATF can contact the Florida State Department and find (a) a record of its existence, and (b) verification that it is current and meets all state guidelines as a viable legal entity.

There are some trusts which are legal contracts set up by an attorney but do not require registration with the state. These would not qualify.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:12:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:
You can go to the state attorney for your district and get him to sign off. Google search will turn up the info, that's who signs here in Alachua County albeit it takes him forever.



Thank you VERY much for that bit of information. I'm moving from Hillsborough to Alachua this summer.

And whoever posted it... the sheriff in Hillsborough County (Gee) is an asshat.

Last election period he went around to all the gun shops touting how he was a big-time gun lover and on the side of gun owners, but he won't sign shit. I'd love to see him show up to a Republican party meeting one month so I can let him know what we think of his "support".
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:48:30 AM EDT
Thats why I voted for him, he came off as Pro-Gun and made an effort to say "Hey I like gun guys" then pulls this shit, while he isn't an ANTI he could be MORE Pro-
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:39:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By terma-nator:
This is true. You left out one very important fact, however.
In order to use the trust for NFA Items,you need to file this trust with the state.

BATF will accept any "legal entity" recognized as such by your state of residence. Some trusts do qualify; others do not. As far as "living" trusts, "revokable" trusts and "irrevokable" trusts, you need to consult an attorney to make sure they are state-recognized. In general, this means that BATF can contact the Florida State Department and find (a) a record of its existence, and (b) verification that it is current and meets all state guidelines as a viable legal entity.

There are some trusts which are legal contracts set up by an attorney but do not require registration with the state. These would not qualify.


I'll let you know how it goes. I've been consulting with someone in FL who has done this and he picked up his suppressor 2 months from the day the paperwork was submitted with signed, notarized and unfiled trust.

As you said "BATF will accept any "legal entity" recognized as such by your state of residence." Florida recognizes any Trust as long as it's signed and notarized, filed or not. Why would the BATF say any different?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:24:50 PM EDT
I'm in Miami and they will not sign shit here. I did start a LLC, but let it go as I had lost interest in getting Class III items under the LLC. If getting it under a trust is so easy I'd love to do it. Please let me know how its works out or you. Thanks
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 6:00:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 6:02:02 PM EDT by terma-nator]

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
As you said "BATF will accept any "legal entity" recognized as such by your state of residence." Florida recognizes any Trust as long as it's signed and notarized, filed or not. Why would the BATF say any different?



Good luck. I am just giving you advice that was given to me by the batf examiner who Actually signed and stamped my first f1.

Didn't you read what I wrote? The BATF needs to verify with the state that the "legal entity" exists and is current.
You will find out after two-three months when you get it back rejected (and you need to start all over again).
Why don't you just get the correct trust and be done with it?

I'm not going to argue about it. You will either do it now, or when it comes back.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:20:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 9:24:39 PM EDT by stangboy555]

Originally Posted By terma-nator:

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
As you said "BATF will accept any "legal entity" recognized as such by your state of residence." Florida recognizes any Trust as long as it's signed and notarized, filed or not. Why would the BATF say any different?



Good luck. I am just giving you advice that was given to me by the batf examiner who Actually signed and stamped my first f1.

Didn't you read what I wrote? The BATF needs to verify with the state that the "legal entity" exists and is current.
You will find out after two-three months when you get it back rejected (and you need to start all over again).
Why don't you just get the correct trust and be done with it?

I'm not going to argue about it. You will either do it now, or when it comes back.


That's what I was trying to tell you. The State of Florida recognizes any Trust as long as it is notarized by a State Approved Notary. If the state recognizes the Trust as a legal entity after it is notarized by a State Approved Notary, why would the BATF not? Other states might require filing before it is recognized, but Florida does not. My advice come from someone who drafted a Trust with the same software, got it notarized, did not file it with the state, and picked his AAC Pilot up 2 months after filing the Form 4.

I'm not trying to argue either but this method has worked in the certain case that I refered to and has also worked for many others. If you know of a specific case where someone in FL was denied because their Trust was not filed please let us/me know. I'm thinking your BATF examiner overlooked the state you were in and did not realize that Florida does recognize any Trust as long as it's notarized by a State Approved Notary.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:11:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 7:04:43 PM EDT by stangboy555]
Here's another thread about Trusts & NFA items from a fellow ARF member who has successfully completed his Trust and has been approved twice.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=264765
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:52:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:07:58 PM EDT by terma-nator]
Never mind.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 4:41:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AIRBORNE5697:
I did start a LLC, but let it go as I had lost interest in getting Class III items under the LLC.



I'm curious why did having it held by the LLC make a difference to you?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 5:23:10 PM EDT
question, ok with a trust and a SBR what 'DO' you engrave on the recever (your name) trust? just asking because im getting a sear very soon and thinking about SBR'ing a couple of guns... just thought i'd throw the question out there.....
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 2:45:16 AM EDT
Name of manufacturer
City/FL

Mine SBR has "TT" and "Gville FL"

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:02:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 8:04:27 PM EDT by Czexybeast]

Originally Posted By stangboy555:

Originally Posted By terma-nator:

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
As you said "BATF will accept any "legal entity" recognized as such by your state of residence." Florida recognizes any Trust as long as it's signed and notarized, filed or not. Why would the BATF say any different?



Good luck. I am just giving you advice that was given to me by the batf examiner who Actually signed and stamped my first f1.

Didn't you read what I wrote? The BATF needs to verify with the state that the "legal entity" exists and is current.
You will find out after two-three months when you get it back rejected (and you need to start all over again).
Why don't you just get the correct trust and be done with it?

I'm not going to argue about it. You will either do it now, or when it comes back.


That's what I was trying to tell you. The State of Florida recognizes any Trust as long as it is notarized by a State Approved Notary. If the state recognizes the Trust as a legal entity after it is notarized by a State Approved Notary, why would the BATF not? Other states might require filing before it is recognized, but Florida does not. My advice come from someone who drafted a Trust with the same software, got it notarized, did not file it with the state, and picked his AAC Pilot up 2 months after filing the Form 4.

I'm not trying to argue either but this method has worked in the certain case that I refered to and has also worked for many others. If you know of a specific case where someone in FL was denied because their Trust was not filed please let us/me know. I'm thinking your BATF examiner overlooked the state you were in and did not realize that Florida does recognize any Trust as long as it's notarized by a State Approved Notary.



Hey, Stang, this is great info. Thanks. Quick and dumb question, how do you find a State approved notary? Thanks.

ETA, nevermind. I forgot that Google is your friend. Thanks again.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:47:39 PM EDT
Just go to your bank. As long as you have an account they'll probably notarize it for free. UPS stores will also do it for like $10, other than that there are a bunch of them in the phone book.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 10:55:16 AM EDT
Well, I just got a bit of interesting news. I just spoke with my examiner up in WV who told me BATF may be considering changing how they transfer to trusts. Right now, they're handling trusts the same way they handle corp.'s, but that may be changing in the future. I don't know what it means, whether a transfer to a trust takes longer or not, but its something to think about.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 1:43:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:
Well, I just got a bit of interesting news. I just spoke with my examiner up in WV who told me BATF may be considering changing how they transfer to trusts. Right now, they're handling trusts the same way they handle corp.'s, but that may be changing in the future. I don't know what it means, whether a transfer to a trust takes longer or not, but its something to think about.

MAN dont JINKS the info for me. Figures we find a easy way to get around some CITY crap and the good old Goverment wants to step in.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:13:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:
Well, I just got a bit of interesting news. I just spoke with my examiner up in WV who told me BATF may be considering changing how they transfer to trusts. Right now, they're handling trusts the same way they handle corp.'s, but that may be changing in the future. I don't know what it means, whether a transfer to a trust takes longer or not, but its something to think about.

MAN dont JINKS the info for me. Figures we find a easy way to get around some CITY crap and the good old Goverment wants to step in.



Trying not to jinx it for you. The man just told me that they're possible going to change the way NFA items are transferred in. Didn't say they were going to stop making transfers. It just may take longer; like it would for an individual. My examiner actually did say that he recommended going the corporate route.

BTW, how many Colt SMG mags should I stock pile, Tuna?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:17:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 2:19:48 PM EDT by M4-TUNA]

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:

Originally Posted By M4-TUNA:

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:
Well, I just got a bit of interesting news. I just spoke with my examiner up in WV who told me BATF may be considering changing how they transfer to trusts. Right now, they're handling trusts the same way they handle corp.'s, but that may be changing in the future. I don't know what it means, whether a transfer to a trust takes longer or not, but its something to think about.

MAN dont JINKS the info for me. Figures we find a easy way to get around some CITY crap and the good old Goverment wants to step in.



Trying not to jinx it for you. The man just told me that they're possible going to change the way NFA items are transferred in. Didn't say they were going to stop making transfers. It just may take longer; like it would for an individual. My examiner actually did say that he recommended going the corporate route.

BTW, how many Colt SMG mags should I stock pile, Tuna?

Buy what U can. I have 12 of them. I meant the easier way of doing the Trust that is all. I dont want to have to pay extra each year for LLC and do the tax stuff but that is me right now until ican have fun like U guys with real paying jobs.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:28:07 PM EDT
Oh, roger that. Yeah, he didn't say they were going to stop transferring into trusts. I think it'll still be a valid way of getting NFA fun in nonfriendly areas.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:30:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deputygadget:
Name of manufacturer
City/FL

Mine SBR has "TT" and "Gville FL"




thanks for the info. but it's not enough, IS the 'trust' the manuf. or the 'person'? clarify please...
knowlege IS power...
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:03:52 PM EDT
So say I set up a trust, and send in Form 4.
So how do I go about getting a short Barrel?
Do I need all the barrel info before sending in Form 4?
Do I get a form 4 approved and then I can get any barrel?
Does the barrel have a S/N#??

Or maybe I'm just really seeing this wrong
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:44:32 AM EDT
This is so tagged.




____________________________




Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:14:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
So say I set up a trust, and send in Form 4.
So how do I go about getting a short Barrel?
Do I need all the barrel info before sending in Form 4?
Do I get a form 4 approved and then I can get any barrel?
Does the barrel have a S/N#??

Or maybe I'm just really seeing this wrong



SBR are on Form 1 I believe. Either way you will register your LOWER if its an AR. And youll have to do some engraving with your name and address on it. Once you get the approved form back you can buy any barrel you want for it. I wouldnt get the barrel now as it would be illegal. There is no S/N on the barrel. Once you register the lower as SBR you can buy all the barrels you want.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 2:29:25 PM EDT
For an AR do a form 1 and you engrave the lower name and city of manufacturer (you). Like an import mark. I did mine at a trophy shop for $10. Form 1 comes back approved put on your short upper and baddit bing baddit boom.

I engraved my HK with my information although I'm having someone else do the work(my contractor) this allowed me to shop for the HK smith while my paper was processing.

There is a thread on the M16 full auto section that is tacked on this.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:33:22 PM EDT
OK let's say I get my Living trust all done up. I know a little about them having dealt my Dad's almost 2 years ago when he passed away but not much. I get my lower registered as a SBR or I purchase one of the Supressed 10/22's I have been looking at, don't think I could ever afford a FA NFA.

3-5 months from now I finally leave the state and move somewhere else. There will not be an issue with NFA arms, one of the reasons I have not moved yet is I am waiting for a job opening in the company where the state is NFA friendly and it does not snow much...been a LONG wait. The supressor or lower belongs to the trust, the state allows NFA arms...what sort of hoops do I have to jump through.

It sounds confusing since I will need to move first before notification (duh..need to know where I will live!) but I don't want to move THEN notify since I guess that would be breaking the law. Is it only notification to the ATF or do I have to fill out paperwork and such just as if I were starting all over again ? Really confusing if the new state does not allow unfiled living trusts as FL does or has different requirements for a trust.

Rich
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 2:16:55 AM EDT
tagit
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:39:03 AM EDT
So what's the verdict on filing trhe trust?
My "Willmaker" software's legal section says filing a trust is optional in the state of Fl.
And furthermore; where and how do you file it? I guess the courthouse?

Man, it's confusing....
And I haven't even attempted form 1 yet
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:41:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
So what's the verdict on filing trhe trust?
My "Willmaker" software's legal section says filing a trust is optional in the state of Fl.
And furthermore; where and how do you file it? I guess the courthouse?

Man, it's confusing....
And I haven't even attempted form 1 yet


Yeah you would file it at the courthouse. From what I've gathered, filing in Florida is just to avoid disputes. When you die someone in your family can challenge the Trust and it's suppose to stick better in court if it's filied. But as for NFA and validity of the Trust, it doesnt need to be filed.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:16:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stangboy555:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
How much does it cost to get a lawyer to do the legal mumbo jumbo and get the ball rolling, I dont think I can just start writing on paper


Willmaker 2006 was my "lawyer" in a box. All you do is plug in some names and the items that you want in the Trust and it writes everything for you.



there were quite a few types of trust in that willmaker link...exactly which one did you use to submit with Form 4?
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