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Posted: 1/7/2006 6:21:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 6:13:56 PM EDT by paranoidredneck]
just saw it on the news tonight, both were found shot.
pretty said.
to bad its illegal to carry a weapon in the forest for self defence.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:35:17 PM EDT
makes me feel soo much better about going into the forest
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:20:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paranoidredneck:
just saw it on the news tonight, ...



What channel/station? Link to their website.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:11:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 4:14:44 AM EDT by protus]

Originally Posted By paranoidredneck:
just saw it on the news tonight, both were found shot.
pretty said.
to bad its illegal to carry a weapon in the forest for self defence.



its hunting season now,, so,,, unless they are in a non hunt area they coulda prolly carried,

I for one would like to see link or such...find out exactly where this ahppend ocala forrest is apretty big place..

ETA:

i know of least 4 killings sincei started hanging out there,, funny do lil search,, theres alot more,, seems that place is a body magnet LOL
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:35:52 AM EDT
linkto story and location

Joey ,,better read up on that!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:42:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 5:46:29 AM EDT by M4-TUNA]
NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN. I bet Anti- hunter scum. Damn might be the other way around they were ENVIROMENTALIST.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:05:37 AM EDT
Sad, yet interesting at the same time... I wonder what occured....
Could there have been someone that didnt care to much about the enviroment out there doing something that pissed these two off? Perhaps she was prodding at this person to stop? Then someone finally got upset and took actions beyond neccessity?

What would cause something like this to occur?? Its a forest for petes sake! Its supposed to be peaceful. Your only worry out there should be a hungry bear.... Not some A-hole who can t abide by the law.................!!!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 12:26:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RjSteed:
Sad, yet interesting at the same time... I wonder what occured....
Could there have been someone that didnt care to much about the enviroment out there doing something that pissed these two off? Perhaps she was prodding at this person to stop? Then someone finally got upset and took actions beyond neccessity?

What would cause something like this to occur?? Its a forest for petes sake! Its supposed to be peaceful. Your only worry out there should be a hungry bear.... Not some A-hole who can t abide by the law.................!!!!



ever drive thru the surrounding lil towns,, like ft mcoy,,pasiely.... and places near lake dorr
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 3:56:16 PM EDT
It's illegal to carry a firearm in the park, that however didn't stop the murderers.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:24:22 PM EDT
if you have ever been out in the forest than you have probably seen your fair share of fruitcakes.
there are a few "squaters" out there, meth labs, hippie types, and typcaly scary people that dont want to be around people.

seems to me that there should be provisions to carry legaly in the forest area.
what ever happend to that rumor that people with a cwp would be able to carry there?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:30:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CrankyFrank:
It's illegal to carry a firearm in the park, that however didn't stop the murderers.



funny, the law didnt keep these two kids safe. when will the gubment ever get a clue.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:14:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 7:43:36 PM EDT by darth_pavoris]
its a national forest not a national park. they have rifle ranges in national forests including that one. In florida its legeal to open carry if you are hunting fishing or camping. why would carrying a fire arm be porhibited in a place THAT PEOPLE HUNT IN ALL THE TIME. when i camped there last there were no post rules about firearms being a No-no incontrast to the state parks i've camped in that were posted no firearms alowed.

edited to add:

according to packing.org if its legal in the state in which the forrrest is in its legal. also the national forrests are the US dept of agriculture's domain the national parks are the US dep of the Interior.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:59:51 PM EDT
i was stopped while out there once. was writtin a warning for having a firearm in my vehical and not having a hunting license. i was told that guns were not allowed in the forest unless it was season and you had a hunting license. maybe the FWC officer had the laws mixed up, but i have heard similar storys from others before. i think because it is a national forest, the state laws do not apply.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:02:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paranoidredneck:
if you have ever been out in the forest than you have probably seen your fair share of fruitcakes.
there are a few "squaters" out there, meth labs, hippie types, and typcaly scary people that dont want to be around people.

seems to me that there should be provisions to carry legaly in the forest area.
what ever happend to that rumor that people with a cwp would be able to carry there?



I have heard plenty of sories of guys out hunting and came upon little camps of hippie, meth lab, pot fields, you name it, the only thing that made them feel safe was they had a rifle or bow with them, while hunting, no encounters or shoot outs, but equals the playing field dont u think
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:47:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By paranoidredneck:
i was stopped while out there once. was writtin a warning for having a firearm in my vehical and not having a hunting license. i was told that guns were not allowed in the forest unless it was season and you had a hunting license. maybe the FWC officer had the laws mixed up, but i have heard similar storys from others before. i think because it is a national forest, the state laws do not apply.



yip

in ocala ntl. it illegal to ccw or have on you if not hunting with out a proper lic.

The open carry law is nice but doesnt apply to the natl. forest.

Dont you all worry,,,

Us guys in the arfcom FLA survival group are camping around that general AO is 3 weeks,, we will catch them


On a sdie not 2 1/2 weeks ago i camped with in 1 mile of where the couple was killed.
My bro and his wife did the same 4 days before the killing.
He had some weird stuff happen at night in his camp.
My bro,, was ummm lets say "feeling good" and just sippin a rum and coke near the fire when his two large dogs went ape shit over the sound of some one "" WHHHhhOOOOoooOOOoo "" ing.
Wife was like wtf is going on,,, jesus calm the dogs down ect.
Only thing he did was calm the dogs a nd say
" Dont worry hon' nothing a 380 cant cure......"" nice and loud.
They had no issues at all the rest of the night.
Now this wasnt a bird(owl) as my bro and his wife are bird counters/watchers fer the gov at times and know their shit.. and he's damn sure it was human.
The area the sound came fromis also a spot i would shine my flash lite when we camped there cuz i had this ""somethings there"" feeling. We hadthe dogs then also but had no issues cept for a skunk that wanderd by outta sight but not outta nose reach
Makes you think,,,,

ive camped ,hiked out there since 13,, as said The place is full of typical ""deliverance types"
hippys and drug growers/meth ect.
Its a big area.

One thing these kids did that wasnt smart was not use a designated trail head, and also they went during atime when thereis hardly any traffic out there.
Even on weekends you may only see 1-3 hikers at times.

Ill pass on the advice My brother the hippy said tome last night, while i was freakin him out about all this...


"" you walk into my camp,, state yer intentions 50 ft away or im shooting.....""
as he said,, its a shame you have to be that way , but you gotta be aware and protect yourself!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:08:45 AM EDT
790.11 Carrying firearms in national forests prohibited.--Except during the hunting season as established by law, no person shall carry, on or about his or her person, or in any vehicle in which such person may be riding, or on any animal which such person may be using, within the limits of a national forest area within the state, any gun or firearm of any description whatever, without first having obtained a permit as hereinafter prescribed except on state roads when securely locked within a vehicle.

790.12 Permit may be granted by county commissioners.--The board of county commissioners of the county, or counties, where such national forest area is located, may grant special permit for the carrying of firearms to be specifically described in such permit, when the granting of such permit shall have been recommended in writing by the officer or employee of the United States Government in charge of such national forest area; and, where such area lies in more than one county, such permit must be granted by the board of county commissioners of each of the several counties involved before the same shall be valid.

790.14 Penalty for violation of ss. 790.11 and 790.12.--Any person violating the provisions of ss. 790.11 and 790.12 shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Should clear up some of the confusion about carrying in the national forests. My personal opinion on this is to do it anyway and just don't get caught. Too bad the liberal types who have never stepped outside of a city would raise cane if there was a suggestion to change the law.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:25:39 AM EDT
790.12 is how we end up with Shooting Ranges in the "National Forrest" so the question is, is their a shooting range in that area? If so, then how far from the range does the County Commissioners loophole (for lack of a better term) cover?

Just a thought
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:43:15 AM EDT
From what I understand the from the Osceola range, the road which is a direct route to and from the range.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:02:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FL_FlatTop:
790.12 is how we end up with Shooting Ranges in the "National Forrest" so the question is, is their a shooting range in that area? If so, then how far from the range does the County Commissioners loophole (for lack of a better term) cover?

Just a thought



range is on fr88 5 miles from the dead ppl.
No road acces to wher ethey were, and also inside a wildlife refuge area whihc means NO guns at all.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:58:41 PM EDT
The area they were in is the Juniper Wilderness Area and is part of the forest off limits to hunting. If they were elsewhere in the forest they could have carried because it is small game season. I've camped in that area before and never had any problem (other than bears) but this is not the first time there have been problems in Ocala. It could be random but it wouldn't surprise me if it was someone from back home that followed them. The story I saw said there was supposed to be a bigger group and the others backed out. So other people knew they where they were.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:43:35 PM EDT
i think this is another tragic example of why you should be allowed to carry in the forest.
i wonder if 4 or 5 thousand letters to the state might change their mind?
open this subject up in general disscusion, and guys would email the state just to say they did it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:12:10 PM EDT
Reminds me of the hunters that were killed about 10 or more years ago near Lake City. Don't know about you all, I'm NEVER unarmed in the woods.............
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:31:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Reminds me of the hunters that were killed about 10 or more years ago near Lake City. Don't know about you all, I'm NEVER unarmed in the woods.............



5-8 miles from the couples bodies in 1994 at hopkins prarie camp area, a FSU student and his sister where attacked, the guy was killed and the sis if i rember right raped,, and beat stab'd or shot and left for dead, few years before that near dorr a body was found, in 66 two females came up missing, 2-3 days ago a body floated down the st.johns....
lastyear this time,, a guy in paisely in the forest at his trailer killed 3 sherrfis and Bugged out to the woods,,sides that,, folks are found dead alot out there!

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:20:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Reminds me of the hunters that were killed about 10 or more years ago near Lake City. Don't know about you all, I'm NEVER unarmed in the woods.............



5-8 miles from the couples bodies in 1994 at hopkins prarie camp area, a FSU student and his sister where attacked, the guy was killed and the sis if i rember right raped,, and beat stab'd or shot and left for dead, few years before that near dorr a body was found, in 66 two females came up missing, 2-3 days ago a body floated down the st.johns....
lastyear this time,, a guy in paisely in the forest at his trailer killed 3 sherrfis and Bugged out to the woods,,sides that,, folks are found dead alot out there!





Seems we got the market cornered on crazy fuckers.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:07:15 AM EDT
From today's Gainesville Sun
http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060110/LOCAL/201100332/1078/news

"Former Marine and gun enthusiast John Parker knew it was illegal to take a rifle on a camping trip in the Ocala National Forest.
Instead, the seasoned camper elected to take a hatchet, a friend said Monday."
...
"At Gainesville's Veteran's Affairs Medical Center, where Parker had a work study in the pharmacy, his friend Michelle Blackburn called him "a firearms buff" who collected old guns and once made himself a flintlock rifle.
"He owned plenty of guns and he probably would have been armed if it hadn't been illegal to have one," Blackburn said, fighting tears."

We need to change this law. I am an SFCC alumni, current UF student, and go backpacking in areas where even a carry permit does not protect you against prosecution for carrying a firearm for self defense. Except for the former marine part, this article could be written about me post mortem.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:52:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PRCDaedalus:
From today's Gainesville Sun
http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060110/LOCAL/201100332/1078/news

"Former Marine and gun enthusiast John Parker knew it was illegal to take a rifle on a camping trip in the Ocala National Forest.
Instead, the seasoned camper elected to take a hatchet, a friend said Monday."
...
"At Gainesville's Veteran's Affairs Medical Center, where Parker had a work study in the pharmacy, his friend Michelle Blackburn called him "a firearms buff" who collected old guns and once made himself a flintlock rifle.
"He owned plenty of guns and he probably would have been armed if it hadn't been illegal to have one," Blackburn said, fighting tears."

We need to change this law. I am an SFCC alumni, current UF student, and go backpacking in areas where even a carry permit does not protect you against prosecution for carrying a firearm for self defense. Except for the former marine part, this article could be written about me post mortem.



wow,, see what hanging out with hippys does to you

shame it went south for him. I highly doubt they would legalize firearms out there,, specially in that area cuz its a wildlife refuge, the other parts of the forest tho,,it would be nice,,, as said above ive been hangin out there since 13 ,,hunted out there also,,ive ran into my share of wack jobs.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:13:15 PM EDT
10pm news said some assclown by the name of leo boatman was the killer.
didnt say why he did it or if any relation with the two victims.
apparently somebody he hitched a ride with thought he was kooky and called the cops.
thank god this fool is off the street.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:01:41 PM EDT
What I saw said he was hitchhiking and the guy turned him in. Apparently used a MAK90 (news said AK47, but showed a MAK90) that was stolen about a week ago down further south (Largo). No known relation to the victims.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:54:08 AM EDT
wow that was fast,,,,, very fast,,, alomost to fast wheres my foil
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:14:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By protus:
wow that was fast,,,,, very fast,,, alomost to fastheres



He was bragging about it, hitchhiked out of the crime scene and told the driver he had a rifle. Scumbag said he wanted to kill somebody but didnt want to kill a bum because they had nothing to lose, decided to kill two "preppy kids".

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060111/LOCAL/201110340/1078/news
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:25:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PRCDaedalus:

Originally Posted By protus:
wow that was fast,,,,, very fast,,, alomost to fast wheres my foil



He was bragging about it, hitchhiked out of the crime scene and told the driver he had a rifle. Scumbag said he wanted to kill somebody but didnt want to kill a bum because they had nothing to lose, decided to kill two "preppy kids".

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060111/LOCAL/201110340/1078/news



thx fer the link,,,

wow is all i can say,,,
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:22:48 AM EDT
link

Hitchhiker Charged With Killings In Ocala National Forest


"The killer is Leo Boatman," Marion County Sheriff Ed Dean said. "This killer in my opinion is a would-be serial killer."


Wow! You don't often get a diffinitive statement like that from a Sheriff.

Normally it's "he's the 'alleged' killer" or "we have a suspect in custody" but not often "The killer is...."

I hope they fry the guy.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:34:11 AM EDT
Wood chipper.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:57:26 AM EDT
http://www.tbo.com/news/MGBZ11J6BIE.html
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:42:08 AM EDT

That cocksucker lives a 1/2 mile from my house.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:50:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Wood chipper.



Too quick, me's thinks a 170 degree oven would be just about right. Or a large colony of fire ants.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:09:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Wood chipper.



Too quick, me's thinks a 170 degree oven would be just about right.


There ya go, reminiscent of the 'human roast' scene in the movie -- Naked Prey
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:01:32 AM EDT
Well, the bottom damned line is that the law needs changing. ONLY complaints and letters from folks such a you all can do that. Further the ADM code that prohibits carriage in any state park facilility needs amending. As it stands, the 790 privision flies in the face of the stated LEGISLATIVE INTENT to enact UNIFORM CCW laws in Fla. as passed in 1987. Thru oversight, the provision forbidding carry in Ntl. Forests & State parks (adm reg.) were not addressed.

Bitch to each other all you want, but really, only letters to your state reps are gonna do any good.

PS: I was in the forest deer hunting when that happened. I carry ALWAYS and the 790 provision doesn't affect me as I'm covered under LEOSA....regardless, I'd STILL carry, you are a fool if you don't!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:31:26 PM EDT



Bitch to each other all you want, but really, only letters to your state reps are gonna do any good.





i'd be more than willing to e-mail/ letter write. i just dont know exactly who to write. or how to organize it.
i always figured if you did send in a letter, it would go straight in the trash. i have never had much faith in the powers at be.
if anybody has any ideas on how to start something like this up, i'd be more than willing to try to help out.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:45:38 PM EDT
This kids stroy smells of Pure BS.....

If hes a resident, he should well know that there are homeless crazies that hang around the forest area... Mabye even wander SR 41.... Why on earth would you stop to pick one up?!?!?!?!

Im betting that he was right there next to the kid...

Heres my version. Dork1 and dork 2 met in jail way back when. hook up on the internet,
Dork1: "Hey lets go camping like rambo"
Dork2: "Hey ok, Ill bring my uncl/brothers gun"

They meet up, go into the woods from a back route (cause the have a rifle) Walk aroudn for part of the day (both probably had rifles) hidding in the bushes, acting like theyre all that and a box of cookies.
Then they see these two campers, decide to act like they are the enemy sneaking up on them. Observe them for quite sometime....One decided hey were out here in the middle of no where...
Lets get the girl, shes kinda hot, wait till later when it gets dark sneak up on the tent..
Stick breaks, they wake up and they guy gets out to check on it.. they shoot him, she screams. they tell her shut up, of course shes in shock... so they shoot her before someoen else came up...
Or perhaps someone was near by and heard the screams and called out...

Either way the two of them run crapping theyre pants....Sniveling all over themselves.... Dork2 drives dork1 home since he cant go home yet to face his parents.

(One of the rifles was probably ditched somewhere along the lines.)

Well all the sudden, this hits the news! Dork 2 realizes dork 1 is already in jail and decides what the hell he cant get me... Ill blame it on him, and collect the cash....
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:34:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paranoidredneck:



Bitch to each other all you want, but really, only letters to your state reps are gonna do any good.





i'd be more than willing to e-mail/ letter write. i just dont know exactly who to write. or how to organize it.
i always figured if you did send in a letter, it would go straight in the trash. i have never had much faith in the powers at be.
if anybody has any ideas on how to start something like this up, i'd be more than willing to try to help out.



Write the NRA, Call the NRA. Write the governor, Call the governor. Write you State Senator, Call your state senator. Write you House Representative, Call your House Representative.

http://www.nra-ila.org/
http://www.flgov.com/html/contact_governor_bush.html
http://www.flsenate.gov/Legislators/index.cfm?Mode=Member%20Pages&Submenu=1&Tab=legislators
http://www.flhouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/representatives.aspx

Write the letter, email the letter. Then call the senator and use the pertinent facts from the letter and make a clear and concise statement to the staffer who answers the phone. This is how you effect change - griping on arfcom wont change anything. Somebody who takes the time to write a letter/call is somebody who will take the time to vote in the next election. If there is enough response there will be change. "Civil Disobedience" and relying on loose enforcement of the statute is the worst option we have. Speak now or forever hide your piece.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:43:26 PM EDT
Here is a sample letter I sent to my rep, Larry Cretul:


I am a Gainesville resident, college student, and outdoors enthusiast. Recently two fellow college students from Santa Fe Community College, a college I attended, were found murdered in the Ocala National Forest. There is a state law that makes possession of firearms in the national forests inside Florida a class 2 misdemeanor, Florida Statutes 790.11, 790.12, 790.14. As you many know, the national forests are left to the states to have their firearms laws determined. In many other states you are able to possess an unloaded rifle provided it is inside a case or a carry concealed firearm if you have a state permit to do so. Florida has no such law to allow firearms for personal defense.

One of the murdered college students was a firearms enthusiast, and his friends remarked that he would have been armed were it legal for him to do so ( see this article - http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060110/LOCAL/201100332/1078/news ). I have hiked in Florida’s wonderful outdoors on many occasions, and have had to leave my personal protection firearm at home. The criminal who murdered these students had no respect for the law, indeed the only effect of the law is to ensure unarmed prey for predators that lurk in the backcountry.

In the backcountry you are far from help, there is often no phone service, and even if you were to send a distress call help is hours away. This is the place you need a firearm most for personal protection. Please help get this law changed so outdoors enthusiasts like myself can protect ourselves from dangerous individuals who are increasingly entering our state's wildlands.

Thank you for your time,
<my name>

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:23:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:23:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PRCDaedalus:
Here is a sample letter I sent to my rep, Larry Cretul:


I am a Gainesville resident, college student, and outdoors enthusiast. Recently two fellow college students from Santa Fe Community College, a college I attended, were found murdered in the Ocala National Forest. There is a state law that makes possession of firearms in the national forests inside Florida a class 2 misdemeanor, Florida Statutes 790.11, 790.12, 790.14. As you many know, the national forests are left to the states to have their firearms laws determined. In many other states you are able to possess an unloaded rifle provided it is inside a case or a carry concealed firearm if you have a state permit to do so. Florida has no such law to allow firearms for personal defense.

One of the murdered college students was a firearms enthusiast, and his friends remarked that he would have been armed were it legal for him to do so ( see this article - http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060110/LOCAL/201100332/1078/news ). I have hiked in Florida’s wonderful outdoors on many occasions, and have had to leave my personal protection firearm at home. The criminal who murdered these students had no respect for the law, indeed the only effect of the law is to ensure unarmed prey for predators that lurk in the backcountry.

In the backcountry you are far from help, there is often no phone service, and even if you were to send a distress call help is hours away. This is the place you need a firearm most for personal protection. Please help get this law changed so outdoors enthusiasts like myself can protect ourselves from dangerous individuals who are increasingly entering our state's wildlands.

Thank you for your time,
<my name>





we all need to do this. guess i'll write something up tomorrow.
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