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Posted: 12/14/2005 1:06:17 PM EDT

as easy as: give cash, receive firearm?

any differences between pistol and rifle when doing a transfer? My potential situation involves rifle but I figured I would ask for future ref.



thanks,
dan
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:27:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:
as easy as: give cash, receive firearm?


Yep


any differences between pistol and rifle when doing a transfer?

Nope


Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:54:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:

Originally Posted By danpass:
as easy as: give cash, receive firearm?


Yep


any differences between pistol and rifle when doing a transfer?

Nope





no silly paperwork thru an FFL. cool
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:17:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:


no silly paperwork thru an FFL. cool


Indeed.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:51:54 PM EDT
i like to make a short bill of sale with seller and buyer names as well as serial # just in case. takes liability away from the seller.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:15:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By js600:
i like to make a short bill of sale with seller and buyer names as well as serial # just in case. takes liability away from the seller.



roger that. Just your typical receipt, perfect.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:28:28 PM EDT
only thing i have heard it that you must see a fla. id. (no out of state buyer/seller someshit, bla,bla stuff) but no recept or any other paperwork needed(good idea though. cya).....
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:38:41 AM EDT
I would not only look for a Driver's License but also document the name and Driver's License number and keep it in my records book.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:48:14 AM EDT
A DL is a MUST. Just write its info down and save it. I've got a folder full of it.
And if you buy a gun get the same info. It saved my son some jail time when he bought a stolen outboard motor.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:04:53 AM EDT
yep FTF is easy.

just CYA with a receipt with buyer's name, addres, and signature; gun's serial #; and DL #.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:07:16 PM EDT
I keep a spreedsheet of all the firearms in my possesion. If one firearm is sold in a FTF transaction. I record the individuals information (name, address, CCL number, and whatever i have) in the spreedsheet as well. That way i have record of it.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:26:08 PM EDT
Not trying to stir up anything, but how I read the law (FL statute 790.335) It is unlawful to maintain any transaction list and that to do so is a third degree felony.

790.335 Prohibition of registration of firearms.--

(2) PROHIBITIONS.--No state governmental agency or local government, special district, or other political subdivision or official, agent, or employee of such state or other governmental entity or any other person, public or private, shall knowingly and willfully keep or cause to be kept any list, record, or registry of privately owned firearms or any list, record, or registry of the owners of those firearms.

Only listed exceptions are pawnbrokers, and from the looks of it all records are to be destroyed after a certain period of time. The only permament exception is the documentation required of a FFL by Federal government.


(4) PENALTIES.--

(a) Any person who violates a provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


Again, not tryin to step on any toes. I have never given nor asked for personal information for a FTF firearms transaction. With this law I can effectively tell the government it's none of their buisness if they come looking. Not only that, but would you really like to give that info up to just some stranger, that isn't held liable if something ever becomes of it?

Now if I'm wrong, please point it out. As I would not want to be spouting any untruths I am just trying to pass along a little info I have discovered on our gun friendly states website. Here is a link to the whole statute.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC335.HTM&Title=->2005->Ch0790->Section%20335#0790.335

My .02

Dave
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:09:59 PM EDT
hmmm... the information is usually given to me by the individual. Also, what do they consider the ATF form we fill out at the shop? Those are kept by the shop in their records.

I guess i'll erase that data from my disk then and just retain the name of the individual.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:03:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Crisco:
Not trying to stir up anything, but how I read the law (FL statute 790.335) It is unlawful to maintain any transaction list and that to do so is a third degree felony.

790.335 Prohibition of registration of firearms.--

(2) PROHIBITIONS.--No state governmental agency or local government, special district, or other political subdivision or official, agent, or employee of such state or other governmental entity or any other person, public or private, shall knowingly and willfully keep or cause to be kept any list, record, or registry of privately owned firearms or any list, record, or registry of the owners of those firearms.

Only listed exceptions are pawnbrokers, and from the looks of it all records are to be destroyed after a certain period of time. The only permament exception is the documentation required of a FFL by Federal government.


(4) PENALTIES.--

(a) Any person who violates a provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


Again, not tryin to step on any toes. I have never given nor asked for personal information for a FTF firearms transaction. With this law I can effectively tell the government it's none of their buisness if they come looking. Not only that, but would you really like to give that info up to just some stranger, that isn't held liable if something ever becomes of it?

Now if I'm wrong, please point it out. As I would not want to be spouting any untruths I am just trying to pass along a little info I have discovered on our gun friendly states website. Here is a link to the whole statute.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC335.HTM&Title=->2005->Ch0790->Section%20335#0790.335

My .02

Dave



Thanks for the info. I understand where you are coming from.

The following are good examples of wisdom (vs legalism) and I understand from your post that you recognize this, I merely highlight it:


Originally Posted By js600:
i like to make a short bill of sale with seller and buyer names as well as serial # just in case. takes liability away from the seller.




Originally Posted By jjk308:
A DL is a MUST. Just write its info down and save it. I've got a folder full of it.
And if you buy a gun get the same info. It saved my son some jail time when he bought a stolen outboard motor.



In addition I read the statute as keeping a list of firearm owners. This is not such a list, I now own the firearm and am merely keeping a record of the transaction which I read to be an EXCEPTION item in the statute. Please correct me if I am wrong (since I am heading out to dinner soon )

I DO thank you for bringing it up .
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:17:08 PM EDT
To my knowledge you do NOT need to see a FLORIDA i.d. Just make sure that to knowlege you are not aware of any reason the buyer is not allowed to have a gun. IE - did she act real crazy. did she talk about killing her husband, does she look like a minor?

I believe you CAN sell a gun to ANY american face to face - you are NOT restricted to people only from your State. NOW if they happen to live in California and they are visiting you here, you CAN sell them a gun as far as I know. But THEY may not be able to take certain types of "evil guns" t into California legally.

All in my opinion of course. Do you own homework.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:30:46 PM EDT
Some sort of notarized receipt also protects the buyer. You could pay cash in a FTF transaction and never get any receipt or anything of that nature and then the seller could very easily report the firearm that he/she just sold as stolen and you'd be screwed.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 3:48:56 AM EDT
Just a little follow up, I understand all the concerns with the purchase of firearm, and how we all feel a responsibility to maintain a record (as the feds do). However it is a violation of the law to maintain a list of buyers and the firearms they have bought.

Now from what I've read (no lawyer here) you can maintain a list of firearms you have sold (just the firearm though) or a list of buyers just with no firearm data.

The exceptions all pertain to firearms known to have been used in a crime, OR the ATF form required by the Feds of any FFl dealer.

And according to the penalty section of the law, quoted...

(d) The state attorney in the appropriate jurisdiction shall investigate complaints of criminal violations of this section and, where evidence indicates a violation may have occurred, shall prosecute violators.

With that right there, anyone who has furnished info in the past, apears to be able to bring that back against you. As previously posted it is a third degree felony (ie loss of civil rights) if convicted under this statute.

Take care, and always do what you feel is right. The law isn't responsible for everything (as much as the libs would like it to be).

This is of coarse just a FYI and not meant to disrespect anyone. Hope it helps, and again, if I read it wrong (which has happened) then please point it out, as I like to keep up on the laws as they pertain to us (gun owners).

Dave



Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:12:47 AM EDT
After reading this post several times i have made some modifications. My inventory sheet of my personally ownde firearms contains just that. All necessary info for MY firearms. However if one is sold it just has the buys name.

I also however keep a record of the transaction as previously stated. But not in my spreedsheet. I like to keep my firearm data in a spreedsheet in the event that my place is broken into and somehow they make off with a firearm or two.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:55:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Progunvoter:
To my knowledge you do NOT need to see a FLORIDA i.d. Just make sure that to knowlege you are not aware of any reason the buyer is not allowed to have a gun. IE - did she act real crazy. did she talk about killing her husband, does she look like a minor?

I believe you CAN sell a gun to ANY american face to face - you are NOT restricted to people only from your State. NOW if they happen to live in California and they are visiting you here, you CAN sell them a gun as far as I know. But THEY may not be able to take certain types of "evil guns" t into California legally.

All in my opinion of course. Do you own homework.



Actually, the DL has nothing to do with FL law. It protects you against a possible Federal violation. You are supposed to sell only to residents of your own state. The DL ensures you are not enganged in interstate activity. It's a gray area , though. I've not looked at the law in a long time - I haven't had an FFL for a number of years - but the area of contention always was "engaged in the business of..." One could argue that, since you are not running a business, the Federal restrictions do not apply. You want to argue with them? Bottom line, ensure you are dealing only with a resident of your state - in this case, Florida. Look at a DL and a CCW permit. You have done your due diligence.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:13:45 PM EDT
There's someone selling a M1A in Tallahassee that i'm seriously considering buying and i'm all the way down here in South Florida. If I bought it, could the seller ship directly to me or would it have to go to an FFL?

If you buy a firearm from a private party within the state of Florida but it's NOT a face-to-face transaction, are they permitted to ship the firearm directly to you and not to an FFL?

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:44:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Accord:
There's someone selling a M1A in Tallahassee that i'm seriously considering buying and i'm all the way down here in South Florida. If I bought it, could the seller ship directly to me or would it have to go to an FFL?





YEP
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:05:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1_AR_NEWBIE:

Originally Posted By Accord:
There's someone selling a M1A in Tallahassee that i'm seriously considering buying and i'm all the way down here in South Florida. If I bought it, could the seller ship directly to me or would it have to go to an FFL?





YEP

Yep they could ship to me, or Yep they have to ship to a FFL?

Thanks
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:11:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Accord:
There's someone selling a M1A in Tallahassee that i'm seriously considering buying and i'm all the way down here in South Florida. If I bought it, could the seller ship directly to me or would it have to go to an FFL?

If you buy a firearm from a private party within the state of Florida but it's NOT a face-to-face transaction, are they permitted to ship the firearm directly to you and not to an FFL?




Technically, it's ok. BUT, try to find a common carrier to do it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:27:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 6:58:58 PM EDT by AZATHOTH777]

Originally Posted By Progunvoter:
To my knowledge you do NOT need to see a FLORIDA i.d. Just make sure that to knowlege you are not aware of any reason the buyer is not allowed to have a gun. IE - did she act real crazy. did she talk about killing her husband, does she look like a minor?

I believe you CAN sell a gun to ANY american face to face - you are NOT restricted to people only from your State. NOW if they happen to live in California and they are visiting you here, you CAN sell them a gun as far as I know. But THEY may not be able to take certain types of "evil guns" t into California legally.

All in my opinion of course. Do you own homework.



incorrect..... then you must transfer thru FFL(out of state), why do you think it exists(18USC922 [5] {a} )
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:22:08 PM EDT
I just read that statute you listed 18USC922 [5] {a} and it sounds to me like a simple "don't ask, don't tell" covers you from that statute........


Just my read, I'm no Liar Lawyer
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:13:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 9:15:42 PM EDT by Boom]
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