I've received a few messages suggesting I remove Ammoman from the Ammo Price List in the Ammunition Forum.
I thought it would be a good idea to open it for discussion in a new thread.
The issue, as I see it: Should Ammoman be removed from the Ammo Price List because:
1.) He advertised a Chinese SKS "Vietnam Bring back" for sale, the SKS was purchased by an ARFCOM member and was marked "imported". The member requested a return and refund from Ammoman, which was refused by Ammoman,
2.) Ammoman is no longer an AR15.com industry member,
3.) ARFCOM members have had problems in the past with Ammoman regarding returns for items purchased.
AR15.com member pfinac recently purchased a rifle advertised as a Chinese SKS "Vietnam Bring back" from Ammoman through his website at Ammoman.com. The web site stated "VIETNAM BRINGBACK SKS WELL WORN. $375 DELIVERED"
pfinac inspected the rifle on receipt, noticed it was marked "import" on the barrel. pfinac contacted Ammoman by email requesting a refund and instructions for return. Ammoman replied "NO REFUNDS ON FIREARMS" and offered pfinac a $100 credit. pfinac contacted Ammoman by telephone, told him he wanted to talk about the problem, Ammoman stated he will not refund or allow a return and that his site states no returns on firearms. [Ammoman's web site, gun page, states "THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MONEY BACK GUARANTEE ON ANY GUNS DUE TO THE FACT THAT WE WILL NOT RISK PARTS BEING SWITCHED"]
From pfinac, feedback thread, top of Page 1, "He told me again, $100 or nothing and if that is not good enough I should take any other actions I feel are needed. I had previosly told him I wasnt angry and now he lit my fire and I called him something like a scumbag rip off artist and he slammed the phone."
AR15.com site staff chose to attempt to resolve the issue on behalf of pfinac. Kevin, Site Staff: "No resolution was achieved, apparently Ammoman has chosen to have a lawyer resolve this matter." Thread Page 3.
On thread Page 4, pfinac notes: "He has chosen to tell people how foul mouthed I was and rude and nasty, etc. I have not cussed anyone out and presented my email communications to the staff for their review." [I could not find any other reference to Ammoman re: foulmouthed,... rude and nasty. - Brillo]
From thread Page 7, Aimless, Site Staff: "Goatboy removed Ammoman's dealership status here yesterday."
Member Gary: "Has anyone from the site management contacted him and inquired why he has choosen this course of action?" Aimless: "Yes we contacted him before taking this action. Personally I am reluctant to post private discussions like that publicly on the net, though obviously we were not satisfied with his responses."
Member donkeykong: "Will the Staff elaborate as to why he is gone??? Did Eric remove himself or was he thrown out?" Aimless: "It was our decision to remove Ammoman because of this incident." Thread Page 8.
To summarize: The SKS was marked "imported" on the barrel, was advertised as a "VIETNAM BRINGBACK". pfinac sought a refund, was offered a $100 credit, he declined the credit, pfinac spoke to Ammoman by telephone, called him "something like a scumbag rip off artist," Ammoman hung up. AR15.com Site Staff attempted a resolution which was unsuccessful, and noted Ammoman has hired a lawyer. Ammoman has been removed as an Industry member.
pfinac, thread Page 1: "Had it NOT been import marked, there would be no issue whatsoever."
I track approximately 16 dealers on the Ammo Price List, only 5 are listed as Industry members. My only criteria for inclusion so far has been an active web site (though I've varied from that for a few good deals), and a decent inventory of .223/5.56. It's been left up to AR15.com members to choose to deal with individual dealers.
The facts stated above are all I know of the issue. I have no relationship with any dealer other than as an ammo purchaser, and I've purchased from most of the listed dealers. I've been offered cases of "sample ammo", "testing ammo", "complimentary ammo" from dealers (never from Ammoman), all of which I've painfully declined.
My inclination is to continue to include Ammoman as a dealer on the Ammo Price List - AR15.com members can choose to do business with whomever they wish.
But the Ammo Price List exists solely for the benefit of the AR15.com community. I'd appreciate your thoughtful comments.
[edited for typos - Brillo]