Gatewood gets the front end in occasionally.  They usually sell them for a bit under $2k.  The other option is a parts kit, but those have been going for 4-5k on gunbroker recently.

The HK SD suppressor is made in Germany and not transferable.   The B&T USA can is a good option and quieter than the original H&K offering, but hasn't been shipped on any OEM H&K MP5SDs.  Lot of bad info out there on that, you will see a lot of claims otherwise.  A few years back there was a brief arrangement between B&T USA and H&K that allowed B&T to engrave the H&K logo on their SD can but that ended quickly after the B&T USA/HK relationship went south.

If you can find one, the KAC suppressor was shipped with MP5SD-Ns and is transferable.

+1....I got my SD front end from Gatewood Supply. IIRCC I paid around 1700-1800....FYI on a side note, Mike (TSC) is wrapping up a 33k for me and I spoke to him earlier this week. He is not taking in any more work. There’s other good smith’s out there but man I’m glad I got everything done with Mike.

I just bought a demilled MP5 kit and looking to have someone finish it for me.  Anyone familiar with Gigliotti Rifleworks?  TIA
https://gigliottirifleworks.com/store.html

That's a pretty expensive kit to trust to a new builder.

IMO, build it on a 94.  But at least do it with a better known builder.  I'd ask one of the Ralphs

Done building for good? Or just temporarily? I had him build my SP5 to an SD and the work is top notch. However the TPM silencer has not been as flawless

He's finishing up a backlog.  I don't think his plans are firmed up but he indicated to me he will be taking more work in the future.

This is my understanding from TSC as well.  Specifically that he had a bunch of HK21/23E builds that had built up over the years with some folks waiting for years to get them back.  

Sounded to me like the belt feds were much more complicated and took a ton of time so constantly got pushed to the back burner.  At this point it sounds like they were getting calls from upset customers and had parts piling up all over the place.

To add insult to injury over the summer they were also drowned in G3K and 33K builds.   I had a friend with a G3K build that just got it back about a month ago after a 6+ month wait.

The net was I understood it was that the belt fed builds were getting really aged and they wanted them completed and back out to customers.  At the same time they didn't want normal roller locked builds to go in excess of 6 months so they stopped taking work in to clear the backlog and get a break.

However, they did say they were not going to do any more belt-feds once the queue was cleared.    I had inquired about an all German Hk21E build off a registered receiver about a year+ back as I had that build coming up on deck and was talking to different builders about options.  At the time Mike told me he wasn't interested in more belt fed work.

I am on their backlog list for a couple of builds and was told to tentatively expect a call around the March-ish timeframe.

I actually talked to TPM today about a German MP5/10 build and they said they were drowning in work as well.   Normal for them was to have ~40 guns in queue and they had in excess of over 100.  They actually asked me who recommended them as they were trying to figure out what dealer(s) were sending all this work their way.

I’m a poor that can’t afford an mp5sd

Instead I went with a Sten MK2 and I am having Andreski convert to MK6. The great grand daddy of the MP5sd

I been looking for the German Front End and can't find any. What else would I need for the conversion if I have an Hk94?

They come up on GB for sale, although the price has skyrocketed recently. IMO you should only use a german front end on a HK receiver, it would bring the overall quality/value of the gun down by using an american made front end. a complete SD kit just sold for around $4k on GB.

Finally got my stamp back on my TSC SD.  Functional art, ran about 500 rounds through it this weekend.  They get filthy!

It's perfect! I'm so jelly

Semi MP5SD clones are out there, but you have to look for them.

Shooting full auto suppressed MP5 =

1 hours tons of fun

4 hours cleaning all the gunk out that the suppressor blew back into the gun.

It really is amazing how much more dirty it gets even compared to a regular MP5 with a can

Thread is relevant to me. Just bought a lightly used TPM SBR and suppressor locally for a future sear host. Just cant justify 10k on a HK94 converted gun right now. Maybe in the future. If I want to get a B&T can is there going to be any fitment issues on the TPM? Who has B&T cans in stock?

In my experience the B&T can is worse than the TPM can in every way. Definitely not worth buying.

I wanted to try the Silencerco can but they discontinued it before I got the gun to shoot it with.  Anyone get one of those (the 9-SD)?

I don't have any interest in a TPM can but in addition to to the B&T own a KAC and shot my SD with a factory can this weekend.

After comparing the three, the B&T SD can kinda of sucks. Like most of their product line it's a overpriced underperformer.  It's considerably gassier than its competitors and no quieter.  If it were the same price as a TPM, I might look at it but for what they charge forget it.

I picked up my B&T as an unfired demo for extremely cheap, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.

I will say, I wouldn't go TPM due to all the recent quality and comms issues.   Misalignment and baffle/endcap strikes.  That shop seems to have gone way downhill lately.  Hell, how difficult is it to make a reflex can concentric?

If I'd read this prior to October when I lost self control and bought another MP5 I would have offered to sell my 9mm can from my old MP5.  

Pros = MFer runs with full auto and doesn't blink.  Very quiet.  Never had any issues with 1000s of rounds through it.

Cons = pretty heavy, large, and screws on not quick connect.  Not a recognized name.  Made by SJM, Scottsdale AZ.  Got it from the Scottsdale Gun Club back when it was called the Armory.



And oh yeah.  When I run it the MP5 gets dirty as hell.

I’d love a MP5, but I have too many other money pits to think about dropping $40K.

My TPM gun is from 2018. Owned by another collector. Looked ok last time I saw it. Hopefully that was done before current QC issues I’m hearing about.

Interesting as my experience is the exact opposite and I personally own both the full size B&T and the full size TPM.

The fit and finish/build quality on the B&T SD suppressor is clearly much nicer.  The B&T has the HK factory spec 40MM metric tube vs. the TPM 1.5" tube, nicer and more consistent anodizing (the TPM parts don't match as the end cap is clearly a different color and texture than the tube), TPM markings/engraving are pretty amateurs, etc. compared to the nice laser engraved B&T tube, and the B&T to my ears as well as everybody else who has heard my B&T and TPM side by side agrees the B&T edges out the TPM in the sound and tone department.

The only value prop the TPM has over the B&T is that it comes apart for cleaning where the B&T "technically" has to go back to the factory to be cleaned.  However, its just locktited together and has spanner wrench holes so clearly comes apart if you want it to.  One of the downsides of the TPM suppressor coming apart is that you can potentially lose the endcap on the barrel inside the handguard cage if the tube twists off the endcap vs the endcap twisting free from the barrel.  So you really need to loctite the endcap on the TPM as well imho.

When shopping for an shorty K SD suppressor after owning both the B&T and TPM for some time, I bought the B&T shorty SD suppressor over the TPM.

That said, from a dollar value proposition, is the B&T worth $400 to $500 more at ~$1000ish retail vs. the TPM at $600ish?  That hard to say, but clearly the B&T is not twice as nice of a suppressor as the TPM..... but again in the world of suppressors where they become essentially a lifetime purchase an extra $450 isn't the end of the world either especially if you are building a German parts SD and spending $10K on the host gun.

I would be interested to understand why you don't like the B&T unit?

One tip I can offer to help keep the SD a bit cleaner is to run the #16/110 degree LP.  This is the original locking piece for the MP5K.  

The 120 in my experience is way over aggressive and lets a lot more fouling back into the gun.  While the 115 (MP5SD Action)  is better than the 120 and still provides plenty of ommph to cycle the action, however, the 110 also has plenty of ommph to cycle the action on an SD and keep the action closed that much longer over the 115 to keep things a bit cleaner.

In my German SD gun I can reliably run 124gr ammo (vs. 115gr) with the 100 degree standard MP5.  (115gr ammo will even cycle with the 100 degree LP if the gun is clean but the ejection pattern is really anemic).  

If your SD is a gun going into harms way and reliability over cleanliness is paramount than by all means keep the 115 or 120 degree LP in the gun.   However, for just plinking at the range I will often run the 100 degree LP with 124gr ammo and the 110 degree LP with 115gr ammo in my SD to help minimize the fouling and gas out the ejection port.

That said don't expect miracles as any suppressed gun is just going to get more dirty than unsuppressed but putting in a more aggressive LP can help.  Similar to going from 110 or 100 to an 80 on a K gun when suppressed.

A bummer to hear TPM has been sliding as they were on my list to scratch the SD itch.

So where would y’all go now?

Just to post in reference to TPM

I got one of their mufflers in June of last year. Immediately I knew I was having baffle strikes as it was impossible to zero and my groups at 25m was 10 inches (this is on a TSC converted gun so I never questioned the rifle). I spoke to TPM in late august about the situation and they told me they were aware of a problem and they would keep me in contact with a fix. Couple weeks go by and I didn’t hear anything and it seemed they were ignoring emails, so I sent a “stern” email asking about the situation and one of the owners (forgot his name) called and spoke to me. Said they had contracted out some of the components and that they weren’t in spec and they would let me know when they had them in stock

That was late September, I didn’t hear anything from them at all so I started pestering them again in December, they ignored (or at least didn’t respond) to 3 emails I sent over the course of December and early January. Then I sent a 4th email and I got a prompt response asking me to mail it in for repair. I did that and within a week it was back in my possession. I’ve since shot and zeroed it and it shoots great and I really like being able to clean it compared to my B&T can.

I guess the takeaway here is, their communication is generally garbage, and they did have a bad batch made a while back. However when they get time (or at least decide to) they can make one of the best mufflers on the market. I’m an SOT so I didn’t have to wait 10 months to get a can only to realize it was fucked up, so that also impacts how I feel about the whole situation.  Currently I am very pleased with the product I have, 2 months ago it was a different story. Take that as you will.

SDs are cool and all, but if you're going into harms way and your primary is an SD, you need a new gun.

If this was to me, it's not a bad can.  Just underwhelming for the price and compared to the competition.

Since I own the KAC I'll compare it to that.  The B&T has significantly more backpressure, which shouldn't be the case given the extra volume of the B&T.  It's just gassier.  My gun has functioned fine with just about every ammo I've tried (115-124gr.). However a friend brought a few mags loaded with some really weak 115gr 9mm that the gun had trouble in F/A with the KAC and a 115 LP.  Semi was fine, but it would choke after about 4-5 rounds on F/A (fine semi.)  Due to the higher back pressure, switching to the B&T changed that and would run a full mag dump.

As for sound, none of us (myself, Mike Woodward, and a couple of my friends) could tell the difference.  Again, B&T has more volume.  Not that it was loud, but it should have been quieter.

This has been my experience with other B&T cans as well.  Their TP9 can is very underwhelming on my MP5N in comparison to others. Same issues, backpressure and sound.  And in that case it's several times the volume of some cans it lags behind.  I really don't think B&T suppressors are anything to write home about despite it being their specialty.  I feel the same about their guns, having owned a few of those as well.  Very over-hyped product line.

As for the TPM, I never considered it for this build.  It looks ugly as sin imo, the knurling bothers me.  And I don't like to clean centerfire cans, that's a gimmick.

You have heard from the high end, this is my experience from the low end. About 10 years ago Todd had his "Going Out Of Roller Locked" sale. Among other hosts, I bought a CA SD for $1,450 which included an all stainless steel, but the end cap,which was carbon steel, SD can. When I took it out to sight it in, I did so,  off hand because that is how I shoot 99% of the time. My groups were big, because the gun was so front heavy. So I rested it and the groups tightened up. Because of this I didn't shoot it much. From some posts on another board, I heard that Rim Country Machine had a similar SD can but made from anodized aluminum. I called Mike Szabo at RCM and asked about their SD can. Originally Rim Country made the cans for Todd's SDs. I asked him if they would be willing to "upgrade" my Coharie Arms can?  He said to send it to him and he would compair it to their can. The specs were the same. He "upgraded" my can from stainless steel baffles to anodized aluminum. This shaved 1.6 lbs off the SD can.

Four years later I went on an intensive building program. I had thought to make a machinegun experience business specifically for those interested in transferable guns. I had Jeff at PCS  build me two more SD clones using the US made front end kits from HK Parts and SW5 receivers from Todd with RCM bolt groups. HK recommends no more than 300 rounds through a SD before cleaning it. So between the three hosts, I can shoot almost 1,000 rounds at a time. If too much carbon builds up on the threads of the barrel inside the can,that carbon can gall the mounting threads of the can.

My sear came to me "married" to a Vollmer converted 94. The gun ran awesome. I found a great deal on two full sized HK MP5 parts sets. I bought some SW5 receivers from Todd and had Jeff put them together. I had $1,800 in each clone. I ended up selling the converted 94. Was the converted 94 nicer than the either of the clones with HK parts?  Absolutely, but not over twice as good, At least to me. I have around $5,000 in the three SDs and the upgraded can. These are toys for me to use. I consider myself much more of a shooter than a collector. If you choose to spend $10,000+ on a HK SD clone, bully for you. I would rather spend two grand on the gun and the other eight on ammo. To each his own.

Scott

Thanks for the perspective on the backpressure as the TPM vs the KAC.   For me the TPM and B&T seem about the same to me in terms of backpressure.  However, I have never shot the KAC unit to compare.

In terms of sound all of the full size SD style suppressors generally sound pretty good given the volume of the can and the porting.   Out in the open its harder to tell a difference between all of the SD cans I have from TPM, B&T, LRM, or even my homebuilt F1 units.   For me the place where the difference is noticeable in terms of sound reduction performance is when I am testing them in my enclosed workshop shooting them into my sand based bullet trap.   If there is a difference in suppression performance, shooting a suppressor in an enclosed space where some of the walls are metal will really help amplify any performance differences and is an environment where even a 22LR suppressor can begin to sound "loud".  The B&T MP5SD is one of the very few 9mm suppressors of any type I can test fire in my workshop and not wear earplugs with the  door pulled down.

I would agree with you on the TPM SD aesthetics as I am not a huge fan of the knurling and its disappointing that the different parts are not the same.  On mine at least, the tube is a course matte black and the endcap is a high gloss black to the point it almost looks plastic to me.

That said, beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder as I find the KAC design aesthetics with the narrow 1.3" tube and plug welds to not be my cup of tea,  so never considered the KAC unit for similar reasons why you never considered the TPM.  The KAC is also the heavier of the commonly available SD cans and carries an outsized KAC pricetag at almost twice the cost of the B&T and approaching 4X that of the TPM.

Agree with you on cleaning centerfire suppressors as it takes a lot to fill them up if you shoot quality ammo through them and even then the B&T will come apart as it not welded or anything really permanent.

Don't disagree with you.  There are probably very few "professional" scenarios where an SD would be the go to gun of choice.

However, as a civilian range toy though they are so much fun as the saying goes "is should be illegal".....err.... maybe they kinda already are with all the legal hoops and cost to acquire one.

The other knock I have on the B&T is that for some reason it would start to lock up quicker than the KAC.  Obviously you need to keep the ports clean and use the brush but it was a pretty stark difference after 5-6 mags between the KAC and B&T.

I haven't weighed the KAC and B&T, but for me it's a not a big difference between it and the B&T. I expected the KAC to be heavier than it is.

And again, they are all quiet.  It's just for the volume difference the B&T should be quieter than the KAC.  B&T is also 25 years newer than the KAC.  Now that being said, it's not like there has been much meaningful suppressor development in 25 years.  They're making cans two pieces instead of one, and allowing them disassemble to appease the OCD and calling it progress.

TPM slipping here recently is a bit of a bummer and concerns me enough to not want to take the gamble. I'd like to get an SD sooner than later and they seemed like the best value. I've got a SP5 I could convert but there's a side that would want to leave that alone.

When most shootings are across the room or down the street does it really matter?

I wont disagree that it lacks some umhp that a 5.56mm does. But still

I kinda wanna try hog hunting with my SD

People keep talking about cleaning so many they can help out.  where do i get a port brush?

IF you can find one it will be $100 at least.

You could always build your own though for around $15.

Fixed Link for ya

Do those pipe cleaners harm the nitride finish on the barrel? I believe the bristles are stainless steel and I kinda thought it would damage the finish. I don't own a MP5SD or clone.....yet, so I don't really know. I'm going to convert my clone into a SD in the future and recently filed a Form 4 for a can. I can't wait!

Since I have such a long wait ahead of me, I did spend some free time designing and making a 3D printed MP5SD style cleaner using spring brass (bronze would have been better/softer) wire as opposed to steel. In the end it could have been a complete waste of time, but I did it for the sake of learning 3D modeling and printing as another hobby of mine.

The cool thing about this though, is I designed it to screw into the suppressor just like the factory version. I only have a fake suppressor to try it on, because unfortunately I don't have a dirty MP5SD that needs cleaning to put it to test lol.








Sorry for anyone interested, the 3D files will not be available at this time due to the labor intensive process and instructions needed for sizing and bending the wires to form consistent bristles.

Big doubt. I have always used the SS battery cleaners with no issues.

I have also used a flat head screw driver to scrape carbon off the exterior of my barrel.

I was worried the first time. But then I could eventually still see the lasered B&T markings

So are you making those? Thats really nice looking. Id gladly test one out for you. But I feel the SS bristles maybe the way to go in my experience

Good to know, thanks!

I handmade these aside from 3D printing the plastic. Again, it was purely for educational purposes and just one-offs for when I convert my MP5 clone to a SD. They were pretty labor intensive, several hours (during work meetings and/or watching Youtube) of sizing, cutting, and bending of the wires by hand just to form the bristles, which is why the files for the 3D model won't be published.

I suppose if there's interest, I could model one that uses the SS battery cleaner insert and have it screw into your suppressor just like the factory SD brush.

First H&K machine gun I had was an SD.

It was an older RDTS 2 tax Fleming sear gun.

I divorced it from the sear and later sold it for about $4k maybe 18 years ago.

It was fun to shoot, quiet with 115 gr ammo, but quickly got very hot and was not fun to clean. The suppressor internally was caked thick with hard carbon which could not be removed.

At the time I bought an SP89 which was sent to Murray Urbach and is now an MP5K-N.

Would love that if it is a cost effective alternative vs the $$$ hk one

I believe many would as well.

I ordered a few of the battery terminal cleaners and will see what I can do with them.

By the way, weren't you the one who had a thread and small vid of building a MP5SD clone? Your build gave me inspiration on wanting to convert my PCS 9N into a SD.  TPM had a sale on their SD can, so I went ahead and ordered it and all the parts a few weeks ago.

Yes I built one and posted the video here a few years ago. Im glad it inspired you!

Its a very quiet can. Youll be happy with it

I foolishly let that sale go buy. Ended up ordering last week anyway.

Now trying to find an SD.

Never mind