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I think what you're missing about mounting lights/lasers, is that with the MPX you have four positions for mounting, and with pressure switches mounted on top the MPX is very nice for mounting stuff. The MP5 on the other hand essentially only has 2 positions for mounting (right side and underneath). Do to the position of the MP5 charging handle you cannot use a pressure switch no matter what rail system you use. Mounting a light, let alone laser like PEQ, just doesnt work with the MP5. Second, the MP5 will be longer suppressed no matter what, because you cannot recess the can under the rail like on the MPX. Surefire X or Scout with pressure switch is wonderful, and not usable on an MP5.

Durability, I don't think can be a negative for either, considering the MP5 clones and HK MP5 have had issues in the past, and the MPX is still fairly new. So far if I had to stake my life one on, it would be the MPX. That thing just runs. And like I said above, the MPX doesn't rely on the stock assembly to function. So with the MP5 you can have a failure if you mess up the stock, or like poeple have had issues with that pin hole cracking and now you're done. I actually would give reliability/durability to the MPX to be honest.

Iron sights will never be as quick as a red dot, they just wont, its why you see competition shooters who stick with the MP5 put red dots on them.

Mag changes aren't an issue with the release, its the issue with inserting a loaded mag onto a closed bolt, or even just inserting them.

Bolt Hold open is HUGE!! I love the Youtube videos of everyone shooting their clone MP5 and jerking forward when there's no round in the chamber. You don't want to know when the gun is empty? Especially with a gun where inserting full mags is kind of a pain. When you go out shooting for a night, and you've shot a few rounds here and there, dont you want to know if theres a round in the chamber or not? Bolt hold open is a must. There is no modern rifle being developed that wouldnt have a bolt hold open. Even the UMP (meant to replace MP5) has a BHO.

Not sure about gas, but I experience very little gas from my MPX with 6" barrel, that being said theres less gas up the nose with the MP5, however the MP5 is way dirtier.

If we are arguing recoil between a MPX and MP5 in 9mm, well then you might as well argue between recoil of a ruger 10/22 and a Marlin 10/22, or stop letting your 5 year old daughter type responses, come on..

Customer service, again I'm not sure what the issue is, but Sig if you call them, they answer, and they help you, just like Zenith or anyone else.

I think the ONLY two pros to the MP5 are the mags are smaller and easier to carry, and the gun is slightly quieter suppressed.
And the negatives are numerous, including the size of the MP5. The thing is pretty big and heavy for what it is.
You can practice all you want, but a lighter, shorter gun with bolt hold open and better mag changes, is going to be quicker and more effective than a longer heavier one. And all this still isnt even getting into the hollow point issues that people report with MP5 and MP5 clones. Sig will eat everything.
Or how about Zenith specifically saying not to use +P ammo in their MP5s. Sig will launch a 124+P gold dot pretty nicely.

If you give someone unlimited training time with both an MP5 and MPX, they would beat their times with the MPX. Its just a more ergonomic and user friendly gun.

Sorry but MPX wins hands down.

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So,

I've read every post and did a lot of google and YouTube searching.  I've saved pics to my phone and specs to my notes.  I've weighed the cost of scrapping the Sig and going "HK". I've thought about the manual of arms for each.  All things considered, I've decided to stay with the MPX. I've become familiar with it over the last couple years and I've been on the AR platform since 1994 so the controls and breakdown are pretty ingrained. I'd probably lose several hundred dollars selling it to turn around and spend more above what I paid for it to go HK, and while I'm not a broke student, I'd rather just keep it and perfect my interfacing with it and spend the money I'd lose on a couple tax stamps for a form 1 and a form 4. I've got a plan to do some modifications to make it closer to what I want the platform to be and they seem achievable given the current items available.  Since the SilencerShop form process is so simple and easy now, I may go ahead and file my SBR on it when I get home.  I appreciate all the input and detailed writings you guys provided.  Maybe next year in true ARFCOM fashion I'll "get both".

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One of the funny things I've been seeing in this thread is people calling the MP5 old and outdated, on a website for a rifle thats just as old as the MP5, And one even older, both rifles have evolved to having scope mounts and rail systems available for them. And the other complaint "Its different than the AR" Well, it must be a sad thing if you go through life unable to learn anything different than one firearms controls, however do you operate a pistol?

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Over the years the AR evolved to be shorter, lighter, more reliable, more accurate, better ammo, and overall is just a good platform.
The MP5 is still long, heavy, no BHO, and shoots a handgun round out of a huge platform.
556 has become a better round for LE and defense in terms of lethality and safety.

9" BLK is just as quiet as an MP5 and shorter, lighter, and more effective. You're not going to be seeing many departments or mil ordering MP5s, or subguns in general. Hell wasn't black developed to replace the mp5sd? If not, it certainly has from what I know.
Maybe we should all get the Q Honey Badger. Its quieter than the MP5SD, shoots a better round, and weighs 2 pounds less!

I want you to seriously think about this, You're leaving your house, kissing your wife goodbye, and getting into your patrol car for a 10 hour night shift. You can take either a suppressed MP5 or a suppressed MK18. You HONESTLY would take the mp5?? There is a reason the AR/M16 is so popular and its not price, many departments have MP5s that don't get used.

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I dont know why you're suddenly comparing the mp5 to a AR15, when the MPX doesnt compare to it either. As we're not talking 5.56 here, we're talking 9mm vs 9mm.

The Mp5 is still around and still being issued to police departments, I believe the finnish police were just issued a bunch of them. Yes, the AR evolved into a smaller and lighter gun..from a 20" rifle. Its logical progression was smaller. Its not much lighter than an mp5. 5.4lbs for the 733, and 5.5 lbs for the MP5A2 Which btw, is still lighter than the mpx (Which is what we're talking about here, btw, that doesnt shoot a rifle caliber round either.) Which weighs in a 6.1 lbs.

The MPX would also be stopped by the same armor the MP5 would be as well. My point was peoples refusing to adapt to anything that isnt an AR15, then claiming its obsolete because its not an AR-15.

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Im responding to your post

"One of the funny things I've been seeing in this thread is people calling the MP5 old and outdated, on a website for a rifle thats just as old as the MP5, And one even older, both rifles have evolved to having scope mounts and rail systems available for them. And the other complaint "Its different than the AR" Well, it must be a sad thing if you go through life unable to learn anything different than one firearms controls, however do you operate a pistol? "

If I'm not mistaken you're talking about the ar15?? Comparing the MP5 to the AR15??

That's why I'm comparing them. The MP5 is old news. Ar15 evolved to be better, MP5 didn't. Sorry to hurt your feelings.
Oh and some Finnish police might have gotten some MP5s...haha ok,  I feel sorry for them.

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I'm not directly comparing them, I'm saying that people are saying one rifle from 1960's is obsolete, but another rifle from 1960's is somehow not when they both have rail/optic mounts available for them. However you started comparing 5.56 to 9mm which isnt what i was talking about. I'm talking about the ability to mount optics and accessories. And how some people feel the MPX is superior when its externally similiar to the AR15..a rifle from 1960.

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Because as I stated before, the MP5 due to charging handle placement essentially has 2 areas for mounting up front, the MPX/AR have 4.
Also, BHO.
Just because its old doesn't mean its bad, what makes it bad is the design, and how that design uses modern accessories.

We're just going in circles though. Enjoy what you buy, you can use whatever you want, but you're not going to convince me (or many people) that the MP5 is superior to the MPX/AR ergonomics/usability.
In Jan at SHOT I'll talk to H&K and others and see what their thoughts are on the MP5s future. My feeling is there will be an overwhelming reaction of "none".
Ill let you know what they say. Who knows maybe I'll be surprised.

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I have nothing against the MPX as i said, just the company making it, My luck I'd buy an MPX and it would be discontinued the year i bought it and dropped because SIG came out with the MPX Virtus or something like they did before.

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I have nothing against the MPX as i said, just the company making it, My luck I'd buy an MPX and it would be discontinued the year i bought it and dropped because SIG came out with the MPX Virtus or something like they did before.

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This is exactly what I meant when I said that you're more likely to get better CS and support from a company making an MP5 clone, OR in the alternative find parts or another company to service the weapon. If SIG decides to drop the MPX, that's it for spare parts; I strongly doubt anybody is going to make "Spring X" or "Detent Pin Y" for the MPX if SIG decides to stop supporting the weapon. On the other hand, there are a multitude of sources for MP5 spare parts that won't be drying up anytime soon.

Basically, your ability to actually maintain your MPX years down the road depends entirely on whether SIG decides to support the platform, whereas even if HK goes under or stops supporting the MP5, there are alternate sources for spare parts because many more entities make MP5 parts.

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This is exactly what I meant when I said that you're more likely to get better CS and support from a company making an MP5 clone, OR in the alternative find parts or another company to service the weapon. If SIG decides to drop the MPX, that's it for spare parts; I strongly doubt anybody is going to make "Spring X" or "Detent Pin Y" for the MPX if SIG decides to stop supporting the weapon. On the other hand, there are a multitude of sources for MP5 spare parts that won't be drying up anytime soon.

Basically, your ability to actually maintain your MPX years down the road depends entirely on whether SIG decides to support the platform, whereas even if HK goes under or stops supporting the MP5, there are alternate sources for spare parts because many more entities make MP5 parts.

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Understand, but also no offense just buy another gun. There's going to be something newer and better out 10 years from now anyway. Not too mention these MP5 clones (especially SP5K) and their parts and service cost more than twice an MPX from the start. You could buy an entire MPX just for parts for cheaper than some of these clones.

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Uh, starting price for an MPX is around $1,600. About the same as a Zenith or Omega clone.

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It all depends on needs.

I just bought an SP5k. I haven't even shot it yet, but I think it's great. The build quality is apparent.

I needed something I could carry discretely in a vehicle. I don't care about paddle releases or barrels for suppressors. The only thing I might add is a Trijicon RMR on top. I just ordered a couple more mags for it. I think extra mags and ammo will be my biggest requirements for it.

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Just out of curiosity why not a Glock 17 or M&P PRO?

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I've never seen a new zenith for less than $1600 +shipping, tax, and transfer (so say $1,800ish)

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Uh, starting price for an MPX is around $1,600. About the same as a Zenith or Omega clone.

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Take a look at the B&T APC9

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I dislike the MP5 for:

- Lack of BHO
- No continuous top 1913 rail
- Limited real estate up front for mounting accessories
- Requirement to lock the bolt to the rear for mag change
- Handicap at downloading mags to 28 rounds if inserting on a closed bolt [I tend to top the gun off any chance I get]

The MP5 design is outdated, I don't necessarily count my dislikes mentioned above as true dings against it. It is my fun novelty gun which I chose to outfit as practical as possible with a red dot optic and a light.

If you're considering a more realistic PCC for defense purposes, I'd seriously consider the B&T APC9 instead. The CZ Scorpion or B&T GHM9 are also pretty good looking contenders in the affrodable range.

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If you have to download your mags, something is wrong with your gun. I always load full 30's on a closed bolt.

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Those who call the mp5 old and out dated have not ran one through a couple thousand rounds in a true training or ‘tactical’ scenario. I just did a subgun class where there was almost 10k rounds combined fired in one day mostly full auto, not one malfunction.if you have the money the mp5 is the best choice for a subgun.

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One of the funny things I've been seeing in this thread is people calling the MP5 old and outdated, on a website for a rifle thats just as old as the MP5, And one even older, both rifles have evolved to having scope mounts and rail systems available for them.

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If you have to download your mags, something is wrong with your gun. I always load full 30's on a closed bolt.

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This is something I've been taught a number of times, and I'm not sure I understand the sentiment. Most recent was a combat course where the cadre advised us to only load 28 rounds in the mags because "you just can't get a full magazine to seat." That and maybe something about ruining the mags, lol. Now, I can grasp that weapons that don't leverage the magazine in will have the issue of extra pressure from the closed bolt, but if you're in the situation of topping off the weapon with a fresh mag and need to be ensured it seats, shouldn't the bolt already be locked back? In the middle of a firefight is not when I'd perform a tactical reload, but when you have the chance, just be assertive with the magazine, and double check it's locked in.

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You're doing it wrong.

Shooting to bolt lock should never be "the plan." If you gotta do it, you gotta do it, and you'd best be ready for it, but by choice, you never want to be in a situation where you have to stop shooting because your gun is empty, we're not talking about M1s and en bloc clips here.

"In the middle of a firefight" can mean a great many things depending on the scenario, but you never want to be in a situation where you bust into the next room and you've only got three rounds left, nor do you want to be in a situation where your buddy yells "cover me while I move," and instead of "got you covered," you have to yell "I'mma let you finish... but I gotta reload first," or worse yet, you shoot three rounds and your buddy thinks they've got cover to bound, then all of the sudden, their ass is hanging out in the wind while you try to get a new magazine loaded.  

~Augee

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I think you misunderstand what I’m saying; if you have the time and ability to make a tactical reload, then you have the ability to ensure the magazine seats completely. When I said “In a fire fight.. bolt locking to rear,” I meant exchanging fire.

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With respect, you are still misunderstanding me.

It is a shitty, shitty thing to be in the middle of exchanging fire and to feel that dull "thump" of a bolt locking back.

It you are part of a base of fire element providing suppressive fire in support of a belt fed weapon, yes, you probably have time to shoot to bolt lock and reload on an open bolt, because the fire won't stop when you do.

If you are part of a small maneuvering element, you never want your gun to run dry, so you may have only a second or two when you get behind cover to slap in a fresh magazine, under stress, with rounds going both ways, probably in an awkward, uncomfortable position, because cover is never as big as you want it to be. You may lack the time or gross motor control to ensure "in the heat of it" that your magazine is securely locked into place, meaning you might pop up from behind cover, only to have your magazine drop right out of your magwell.

Firefights are not a cowboy game where people stand across from each other and shoot at each other until they run out of ammo. Speed reloads from a locked bolt are important to know how to do because when you need it, you need it RTFN. But in the middle of exchanging fire is precisely the moment when you need to be smart and disciplined about conducting tactical reloads. Better to leave five rounds on the deck or in a dump pouch than to have your weapon go "thunk" instead of "bang."

People imagine these wild, ninja, "gun kata" reloads where a guy flips a magazine out of his rifle and slaps in a new one from a perfectly positioned pouch and uses his BAD lever to chamber the next round in .25 seconds because, goddamn, it looks good in a YouTube video, but that is a last resort reload--think of it this way--if you can do that from bolt lock on the move, why wouldn't you rather do that at the time of your choosing before the bolt locks back, so that you can skip having to rechamber a round, and so that you have an almost entirely fresh magazine once you've neutralized the immediate threat? There's nothing more ridiculous than watching a guy do a choreographed "scan and assess" with his empty gun "at the ready." What are you gonna do? Stop the next guy with your steely eyed look of resolve?

~Augee