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Posted: 2/15/2006 7:37:57 PM EDT
So why are push pin lower receivers on an Hk94/MP5 clone against the law?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:09:15 PM EDT
I assume you mean the upper receiver, or receiver. They are considered machine gun receivers by the ATF. Some were converted legally before the MG ban of 1986. They cost about $14000 to $15000.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:52:56 PM EDT
It is because you can install a full auto trigger pack and have a full auto weapon with this type of receiver. So if you have a push pin receiver that operates semi auto only, you still in the ATF’s infinite wisdom have a machine gun. Yes a machine gun can be a semi auto rifle. If you are going to be around these types of guns, you need to brush up on all of this. You do not want to break any of these laws, the consequences are just to serious.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 12:30:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:44:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 1:47:11 PM EDT by Homeinvader]

Originally Posted By GA-Dawg:
So why are push pin lower receivers on an Hk94/MP5 clone against the law?



It seems like you are asking a different question than is being answered. Push-pin lower receivers will not fit on HK94/MP5 clones by design. Semi-auto lowers designed to fit semi-auto receivers are actually clipped into place at the front rather than having a pin hole like an MG lower. That push-pin hole in an HK receiver is the defining legal characteristic of an MG receiver.

While the MG (push-pin) lower itself will not fit and hence will not convert a semi-auto HK into full-auto directly, ATF has held the position that the presence of both a semi-auto receiver AND certain full-auto fire control parts (all of which are in a push-pin lower) is considered a machine gun using the "conversion parts" clause. Having both of these also shows claer legal "Intent" to convert the gun.

The same goes for a semi-auto AR and M-16 parts.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:57:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By huntingguide:
It is because you can install a full auto trigger pack and have a full auto weapon with this type of receiver. So if you have a push pin receiver that operates semi auto only, you still in the ATF’s infinite wisdom have a machine gun. Yes a machine gun can be a semi auto rifle. If you are going to be around these types of guns, you need to brush up on all of this. You do not want to break any of these laws, the consequences are just to serious.



Thanks guys, that cleared up a lot for me. Even so, it's SO hard to understand the ATF's logic!!??!! I'm beginning to see more and more each day how FUBARED their decision making skills are!

One more question, I wasn't sure if I read this right....

If I have a gun built from a kit, it's fine to have a newer ambi lower as long as it's clipped and pinned...you just can't have a registered (MG) receiver and switch it to a newer lower because it's not the original lower parts(sear)?

I may be really wrong on this...so take it easy on me...
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:01:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GA-Dawg:

If I have a gun built from a kit, it's fine to have a newer ambi lower as long as it's clipped and pinned...you just can't have a registered (MG) receiver and switch it to a newer lower because it's not the original lower parts(sear)?



Very confusing question. Not sure what you're asking.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:06:28 PM EDT
ok...if I have an original HK kit that's been demilled and a SW receiver and an ambi navy lower...can it be built into a legal semi????


The previous question came from reading the last few paragraphs from the link posted above by osprey21.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:18:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GA-Dawg:

One more question, I wasn't sure if I read this right....

If I have a gun built from a kit, it's fine to have a newer ambi lower as long as it's clipped and pinned...you just can't have a registered (MG) receiver and switch it to a newer lower because it's not the original lower parts(sear)?


You can use any factory machine gun lower on your HK94/MP5 clone as long as it's been modified to the SEMI AUTO ONLY configuration, which would include "clipping" the housing to accept the shelf on the host gun.

A registered receiver push pin HK machine gun can LEGALLY use ANY factory machine gun lower that's on the market today.

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:18:36 PM EDT
yes, you will need to modify the trigger pack to operate in semi-auto only.

This is accomplished by cutting out the old sear pin hole, drilling a new one and placing a stop in the frame to limit trigger travel. Since US trigger parts are often used, I have only seen S/A parts for those.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:27:02 PM EDT
Ok...I think that answered my question. I just got worried there for a minute that I'd spent a good amount of money on something that wasn't going to me doable. And I can have it built with all my original parts as long as the receiver was registered as a pistol and I have it built tas a pistol(with the clipped and pinned lower/triggerpack)? Then i can do a SBR on a form 1, right?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:39:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GA-Dawg:
Ok...I think that answered my question. I just got worried there for a minute that I'd spent a good amount of money on something that wasn't going to me doable. And I can have it built with all my original parts as long as the receiver was registered as a pistol and I have it built tas a pistol(with the clipped and pinned lower/triggerpack)? Then i can do a SBR on a form 1, right?



If it's a bare receiver, then sure, you can create a pistol out of it. But it doesn't need to start as a pistol in order to do an SBR. If you want an SBR, then go ahead and start that paperwork now and build it into an SBR when the Form 1 is approved. Sounds like you are confusing it with an AOW. An AOW would have to start as a pistol or a bare receiver.

What is it you want to end up with? MP5-look or MP5K-look?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 2:43:35 PM EDT
I was told that by building as a pistol that it could contain all the original HK parts and I wouldn't have to worry about the parts count. Building it as a pistol would allow me to have some fun with it while I wait on the form 1.

oh...an mp5 is the desired outcome.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:42:12 PM EDT
Ah, I see where you're going with this.

Sure, 922r does not apply to pistols so, yes, you can build that into a pistol to avoid 922r violations. 922r also does not apply to NFA weapons, as it seems you already know, so once the Form 1 approves, you're good to go.

But along the lines of what we've been talking about, make sure you don't have the original buttstock anywhere in your household (or with the gun itself). Until the Form 1 is approved, you'd be in danger of an SBR beef.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:25:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Ah, I see where you're going with this.

Sure, 922r does not apply to pistols so, yes, you can build that into a pistol to avoid 922r violations. 922r also does not apply to NFA weapons, as it seems you already know, so once the Form 1 approves, you're good to go.

But along the lines of what we've been talking about, make sure you don't have the original buttstock anywhere in your household (or with the gun itself). Until the Form 1 is approved, you'd be in danger of an SBR beef.




Cool...I think that about answers EVERYTHING! I guess I'll be sending the buttstock to a friend's house till the paperwork comes back! Thanks so much to all that contributed.

If anyone sees anything/info that might have been missed then please continue to chip in your .02!

Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:32:16 PM EDT
This is a question that has boggled me as well. Why is an HK9x pushpin receiver considered a machinegun but not an AR15 receiver? Both uppers would be able to accept a full auto lower.

I'm guessing it has something to do with serial number placement.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 9:31:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 12:33:49 AM EDT
you cant be trusted, official Govt regs....

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