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Posted: 2/1/2006 8:09:25 PM EDT
ive been looking for a nice Greek SAR-8 G3 rifle.....cant find any lower than $1.4k it seems...I need preban ...and I want a G3....this seems to be the most inexpensive route.

Im ready to trade my standard PTR in for it....anyone know where to even look? ive checked sturmgewehr, the forums here, HKpro, HK94, gunsnet, auctionarms, gunsamerica, gunbroker....etc... only came across a few...

whats the cheapest I can get one of these for you think? these are good rifles right? i mean they are built on HK machinery, to HK specs....
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:34:40 AM EDT
HK91.com has them come up for sale now and then. Yes, it is a desirable clone.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:56:47 AM EDT
why not a HK91 for not much more money? $1600-1800 will get you a HK91
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:01:05 AM EDT
If you want preban, what you really want is a SAR-3. They changed the name to "8" and started using thumbhole stocks with the import ban.

There are some SAR8's that are overstamped SAR3's.

They chose the "8" because thay could overstamp the "3's" on existing receivers and still import them with less "evil" features.

The "SAR-3" was a name specifically identified as no longer importable. But, a SAR-8 without a flash hider and with a thumbhole was OK.

The cheapest I've ever seen a SAR3 recently was for $1,100. That was at a local show.

Early SAR8's were made with Greek EBO receivers. Later ones were made with some aluminum forged receiver. avoid the aluminum ones.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:05:40 AM EDT
Next to a German rifles the EBO (Greek) guns are the most desireable, followed by the PARS FMP guns, IMO.

Although I think $1.4K is a bit stiff for an "8" stamped gun.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:50:22 AM EDT
i found one on gunbroker....im hoping the price stays low....

if it goes up to $800+ or so thats fine, ill just sell my PTR off.....

I just want a preban G3 rifle....as I really want to slap that collapsable stock I have onto one... (plus I really want a flash hider, call me crazy).
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:53:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ-75Jeff:
If you want preban, what you really want is a SAR-3. They changed the name to "8" and started using thumbhole stocks with the import ban.

There are some SAR8's that are overstamped SAR3's.

They chose the "8" because thay could overstamp the "3's" on existing receivers and still import them with less "evil" features.

The "SAR-3" was a name specifically identified as no longer importable. But, a SAR-8 without a flash hider and with a thumbhole was OK.

The cheapest I've ever seen a SAR3 recently was for $1,100. That was at a local show.

Early SAR8's were made with Greek EBO receivers. Later ones were made with some aluminum forged receiver. avoid the aluminum ones.



wait , so this one im looking at is a SAR-8, but it has a flash hider on it...its still pre-94, so why isnt it considered "pre ban"? I just need to be able to own it in NY with the evil features, will it be legal?

I thought this was not preban in the sense of the signing of the import ban in 1989 by Bush Sr.?

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:04:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dieter122:

wait , so this one im looking at is a SAR-8, but it has a flash hider on it...its still pre-94, so why isnt it considered "pre ban"? I just need to be able to own it in NY with the evil features, will it be legal?

I thought this was not preban in the sense of the signing of the import ban in 1989 by Bush Sr.?



If converted back to preban config before 11/90, then its a legit preban.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:13:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:16:09 AM EDT by Dieter122]

Originally Posted By osprey21:

Originally Posted By Dieter122:

wait , so this one im looking at is a SAR-8, but it has a flash hider on it...its still pre-94, so why isnt it considered "pre ban"? I just need to be able to own it in NY with the evil features, will it be legal?

I thought this was not preban in the sense of the signing of the import ban in 1989 by Bush Sr.?



If converted back to preban config before 11/90, then its a legit preban.



so even though it was produced before 1994, it doesnt count as a preban weapon in NYS? How does that work...I thought it just had to of been made pre-94 for it to constitute preban

How would they even tell if you made the alterations before 10/90 anyhow....thats just dumb

heres the auction

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=43360631
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:19:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 9:26:26 AM EDT by CZ-75Jeff]
You're confusing the "import" ban of '89 with the "assault weapons" ban of '94

In 1989, Bush Sr. signed an exec order that prohibited specific firearms from being imported. The SAR-3 was one specified.

You often hear people speak of "US parts count." Any firearm that has more than a certain numebr of foreign made parts is considered an import. None of that has changed with the sunset of the "assuault weapons" ban of '94 that lasted 10 years. A lot of people get those 2 confused.

So, a "preban" HK91 or Springfield SAR-3 is pre '89 ban, not pre '94.

I'm not clear as to why some SAR-8's are still considered preban, since it was the ban that made them change the designation from 3 to 8. I think these are what some people refer to as "transitional" SAR-8's and I believe most of those were originally 3's but later restamped as an 8.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:32:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 9:39:54 AM EDT by CZ-75Jeff]
That is NOT a preban gun. He even states it as such. This seller has either replaced the proper number of foreign parts with US made parts, or he is trying to sell an illegal "assault weapon."

The expiration of the 94 ban did nothing to allow you to remove the thumbhole stock with a normal G3 stock.

Don't buy that one, unless you want to either:

1) Own an illegal firearm or
2) replace enough foreign parts with US parts or
3) want to put the thumbhole stock back on (even then, I'd ask the seller to do that before he shipps it to your FFL.

I'm 90% certain I'm right...
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:04:36 AM EDT
Sure looks like an over-stamp gun to me.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:06:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Sure looks like an over-stamp gun to me.



"SAR-8 rifles were made 1989-1995. This one is 1993."

this is what he sent to me
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:17:59 AM EDT
www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter68.txt


DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226

SEP 1 1999

903050:GKD
3311

Dear :

This refers to your letter of July 4, 1999, in which you asked
about modifying a SAR-8 rifle. As we advised you in our previous
letter of April 2, 1999, PSG-1 style rifles are prohibited from
importation under section 925(d)(3) of Title 18 United States Code
(U.S.C.)); therefore, assembly of a PSG-1 style rifle from imported
parts is prohibited under Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations
(CFR), Part 178, section 178.39. Assembly of a PSG-1 style rifle
prior to April of 1998, was not prohibited under section 178.39,
since the PSG-1 rifles were not prohibited from importation at that
time.

You also inquired about a SAR-8 rifle manufactured in February
1994, which was modified by installing an HK-91 flash suppressor
and replacing the original thumbhole stock with an HK-91 stock.
Such rifles have been prohibited from importation since July, 1989;
therefore, assembly of the rifle from imported parts would also be
prohibited as provided in section 178.39. Please note that
firearms involved in any willful violation of this regulation are
subject to seizure and forfeiture as provided in 18 U.S.C. section
924(d)(1).

Additionally, the SAR-8 rifle as modified would meet the definition
of a semiautomatic assault weapon as that term is defined in
section 921(a)(30) of Title 18 U.S.C. Section 922(v)(1) of Title
18 U.S.C. provides that it shall be unlawful for any person to
manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.

- 2 -

However, a semiautomatic assault weapon, which was lawfully
possessed under Federal law on the date of enactment of the
subsection (September 13, 1994) is excluded from the prohibition in
section 922(v)(1). Even if the semiautomatic assault weapon was
lawfully possessed prior to September 13, 1994, it could still not
be altered to PSG-1 configuration, since assembly of the PSG-1
style rifle from imported parts would be prohibited under section
178.39.


We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.



Sincerely yours,

[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:23:58 AM EDT
ok so what your saying is that the rifle isnt in a legal configuration? theres a number on auction websites in that config...
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:34:38 AM EDT
There are a number of people who just don't know the laws...

Most people think that whn the 94 ban expired in 2004, all restrictions were lifted. That is not true.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:43:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 10:46:08 AM EDT by osprey21]
Confusing, ain't it.

eta: I would love to see a 'date of mfgr' vs 'serial number' sheet on these guns.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:46:06 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:47:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ-75Jeff:
There are a number of people who just don't know the laws...

Most people think that whn the 94 ban expired in 2004, all restrictions were lifted. That is not true.



if the gun was 922 compliant....and it was made before 1994....would it be legal in NYS in "evil" configuration? thats my question..
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:23:23 AM EDT
I don't know NY laws, but it had to be already imported by 94, not just made before then.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 11:44:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ-75Jeff:
I don't know NY laws, but it had to be already imported by 94, not just made before then.




now im just really confused
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:32:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 12:35:22 PM EDT by CZ-75Jeff]
Think of it like this.... A greek made SAR3 that was made in 1988 (obviously "made" prior to any ban) is still in Greece as of 1994. It cannot be imported to the US because it became illegal to import them in 1989.

It is an "import" ban.

Taking a legally imported "sporter" like the SAR8, and converting it into an "assault weapon" by removing the thumbhole stock and replacing it with a normal G3 stock, and/or attaching a flah suppressor, violates the law.

The only way around this law, is to replace enough forein made parts ith US made parts... Then it is no longer considered an imported firearm.

Stupid, but no one ever said that laws are logical.
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