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Posted: 1/8/2006 1:54:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 1:58:59 PM EDT by HK_Shooter_03]
This is copied from HKpro...

It might be old news or, a dupe...

Let me know...



Heckler & Koch—No Compromise.

2005 S.H.O.T. Show

The 2005 S.H.O.T. Show was the first commercial show attended by H&K since the separation of the old Heckler and Koch Inc. entity into two distinct companies…Heckler and Koch Inc. and HK Defense.

This separation was required following the divestiture of H&K from British Aerospace (BAE Systems) and has been implemented in various forms since the fall of 2003. The S.H.O.T. Show has always been a venue for Shooting, Hunting, and Outdoor Trade (hence the name S.H.O.T) and HKI attended the show in the spirit of that venue, featuring commercial and law enforcement products only.

Our attendance as a commercial and law enforcement company, and the lack of military and NFA weapons on hand were in compliance of the charter of the parent entity of S.H.O.T., i.e. the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF). In fact, HK Defense relinquished its own booth space at S.H.O.T. in order for HKI to display the Merkel brand for its parent company in Suhl, and an expanded law enforcement venue. HKI will not attend the AUSA, Marine Corp or other military shows in the future.

HK affinity websites and chat rooms, as well as many consumers and dealers expressed their dismay of the change in venue at S.H.O.T. Show. Many expressed concerns over the lack of new products, especially long guns, since the sunset of the Assault Rifle ban. There has been considerable hue and cry for bringing back the HK91, HK93, etc. There was tremendous expectation and assumption that HK would immediately begin entry into the marketplace.

The fact is, the engineering prowess and the machinery for HK long gun product sold 20+ years ago no longer exist, or represent considerable investment and risk in an increasingly uncertain and competitive firearms market. Couple this with costly legal challenges from competitors, and a dollar worth 30% less than the Euro and it is plain that HKI would face considerable challenges to re-enter the centerfire semi auto market. So there is no correlation between the division of the two HK companies and the lack of products to address the post-ban marketplace.

The challenge of dividing two companies and making the sum of the whole greater than the parts is now behind us. HKI will devote its resources and work hand in glove with the parent company in Germany to continually bring new product and innovation to the marketplace for the future…because it is our future.
Heckler & Koch Inc.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 2:05:20 PM EDT
Not good news!
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 2:08:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 2:09:45 PM EDT by m4hk33]
i understand that the hk 9 seires is an old design, but corect me if I am wrong, the MP5 is still being used and produced somewhere, i saw a year or two ago that it was still in their LEO/defense catalog

so hk does have the tooling somwhere, so this leads me to believe that they are not intersted in moving this equipment to the us to begin US production

regardless HKs not willing to sell an upper to the public so out side of shotguns and pistols, Hk is not going to produce anything significan,

havent they allready stated that there will be no civilian M8 even though it was to be produced here?( befor the project was canned)

screw HK support FN
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 2:08:29 PM EDT
they've got plenty of cool things out now they can sell. So WTF?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 3:19:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 3:19:50 PM EDT by dskeet]
I'd love to see new civy 9x series guns but I knew it wouldn't happen.

What is so hard about a civy G36 that isn't all gayed up? or a UMP? People are spending huge bucks on conversions, so there is a market for them.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:57:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RED_5:
they've got plenty of cool things out now they can sell. So WTF?



They are all non-sporting guns... Can't import the non-sporting types. They don't have a factory in the US. Probably not worth it to build a factory here either with the political climate here especially if the Democrats get controll of Congress this year... There are laws as well in Germany where they can't sell military arms to civilians... This is the weekly topic, "Woe is me, HK won't import their good stuff, oh, woe is me..." I want it just as bad as you do...

Spooky
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:05:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 6:06:20 PM EDT by VLODPG]
HK doesn't even need to build a factory here. They could contract out to CMT to build most of them (416's) & ship their barrels over from Germany. Bring over Hilda & Olga to shoot some test target, have Hanz with his hammer & proofstamp! Poof. You have a US HK. You dont need to make it in Germany, You can make them in Connecticut with a bunch of Poles working at CMT
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:09:59 PM EDT
here somthing funny

all this talk about making a factory, why not move here to pittsburgh, after unions killed the steel industry, there are countless factories and wearhouses that could be used to house machinery.and products


I know of at least three commmunities that are offering tax free status for five years for new mfg jobs

seems it would be pretty easy from a buisness standpoint to set up operations here, but it appears that unless the plant is part of a major Military contract, HK is not interested
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:00:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
HK doesn't even need to build a factory here. They could contract out to CMT to build most of them (416's) & ship their barrels over from Germany. Bring over Hilda & Olga to shoot some test target, have Hanz with his hammer & proofstamp! Poof. You have a US HK. You dont need to make it in Germany, You can make them in Connecticut with a bunch of Poles working at CMT



doesnt the new barrel ban stop that from happeneing?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:09:47 PM EDT
i think that the barrel ban was cancled, only now the importer must state the barrels are for replacement only,

maybe im wrong, thought i read that on the bord somewhere
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:11:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
i think that the barrel ban was cancled, only now the importer must state the barrels are for replacement only,

maybe im wrong, thought i read that on the bord somewhere



really?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:11:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 11:45:09 PM EDT by bones21]
If the barrels are classified as "sporting", then they can be imported with no problems.

USC & SL8 barrels are still very importable.... but there is no market for them & they are expensive.

416 barrels would have to be in a "post-ban" configuration to be imported... then they could thread them and add a lug.
You'd be better off bbuying POF or LMT, etc... The HK stamp means nothing to me, FWIW.

There is no incentive for H&K to even try to help out civies.... besides, the 416 falls under HK "Defense", so it will NEVER happen.

H&K would have been a great company if they hadn't fucked around for the past 30 years making "space" guns that no one ever bought. They spent millions on concept guns that were never made when they should have been building a fucking plant in the US, if for nothing,at least the investment of having a US plant. Hell, almost every other Euro gun maker has a plant here... or atleast an assembly plant

H&K will never be a big dog because they are stupid, business wise.

Fuck'm, bring on FN

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:00:22 AM EDT
Im saving my pennies for a PS90! Why? Just Beacuse!
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:07:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
i understand that the hk 9 seires is an old design, but corect me if I am wrong, the MP5 is still being used and produced somewhere, i saw a year or two ago that it was still in their LEO/defense catalog

so hk does have the tooling somwhere, so this leads me to believe that they are not intersted in moving this equipment to the us to begin US production

regardless HKs not willing to sell an upper to the public so out side of shotguns and pistols, Hk is not going to produce anything significan,

havent they allready stated that there will be no civilian M8 even though it was to be produced here?( befor the project was canned)

screw HK support FN



No, the MP5 and HK94 are vastly different animals from a manufacturing standpoint. The MP5 is still made, but not the HK94. The MP5 receiver differs from the HK94 receiver substantially in order to prevent full-auto MP5 lowers from attaching to the semi-auto receiver and it's likely the tooling to manufacture an HK94 receiver is no longer around. HK94 lower receivers, bolt carriers and fire control parts are also vatly different and require distinctly different tooling and manufacturing operations. I'm sure he's right when he states this, there was no reason to keep the HK94 tooling after the '89 import ban, America being the single largest market for the HK94 and the only entity that required this type of operation to legally sell these on the civilian market.

When you say you see a semi-auto MP5 available in their catalog, it is not what you think. It'[s an MP5 receiver with a semi-auto lower receiver. It's a standard MP5 receiver, not a modified one. Its legally a machine gun and doesn't require any special tooling over the MP5.

As he states in a nicer way, it would be foolhardy to spend millions of dollars (or Euros) to tool up for a civilian legal HK G36, for instance, when a less gun friendly administration could be elected into office within any 4 year time frame. American politics is too volatile to make strategic decisions like that.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:58:00 AM EDT
The HK 94 receivers started off as MP5 receivers. they are not substantially different.
You take a push pin receiver , weld up the pin hole, weld on a shelf and voila, you have an HK94 receiver.
Take a look at your factory HK9x series gun... you can see how they eliminate the push pin attachment point.

The bolt carriers likewise all started off as MP5 bolt carriers, take your MP5 carrier and machine off the lug that trips the sear, voila HK94 bolt carrier.

The trigger packs are different, but not much , I'm sure HK had some process where the standard packs were converted, the vast majority of parts in an HK94 pack and an MP5 pack are identical.

So the contention that they are vastly different is not quite correct. However everything is else is spot on. From a business/political perspective USA is too much of a gamble for HK to invest IMO.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:47:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmeyer001:
The HK 94 receivers started off as MP5 receivers. they are not substantially different.
You take a push pin receiver , weld up the pin hole, weld on a shelf and voila, you have an HK94 receiver.
Take a look at your factory HK9x series gun... you can see how they eliminate the push pin attachment point.

The bolt carriers likewise all started off as MP5 bolt carriers, take your MP5 carrier and machine off the lug that trips the sear, voila HK94 bolt carrier.

The trigger packs are different, but not much , I'm sure HK had some process where the standard packs were converted, the vast majority of parts in an HK94 pack and an MP5 pack are identical.

So the contention that they are vastly different is not quite correct. However everything is else is spot on. From a business/political perspective USA is too much of a gamble for HK to invest IMO.



You're misinterrpeting me. Of course the 94 and most related components started as MP5 versions. The HK94 and Mp5 receivers start the same, but the additional steps to create a 94 receiver, a receiver that by design and legal necessity cannot utilize the MP5 full-auto fire control components, creates a "vastly" or maybe you'd be happier with "substantially" different receiver. That was the whole point. Whereas other parts could be converted from full-auto, the semi-lowers were entirely different in housing design, trigger pack pin hole location and in fire control part geometry. There were more steps in creating a semi-auto lower than in the full-auto. This was also the point, to make sure full-auto parts could not simply be pulled from one lower and installed and function in a semi trigger pack and housing.

You make the process of creating a 94 sound "vastly" simpler than it is was. All of the parts you mention, including the receiver, were made on machinery and fixtures designed and calibrated for the manufacturing of the HK94 quickly and in large quantities. It was not "Dieter" with a drill press and a welding torch as you seem to suggest. I converted probably 200 or so 94s to MP5s back in the 80s, I know the design well and know by sight alone that the semi-auto machine work was not done by hand.These fixtures were likely sold or remodified to other uses long ago. When HK says they could not just pick up where they left off with the 90 series, I fully believe them.
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