Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/2/2006 10:04:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 10:11:43 AM EDT by ArnisAndyz]
I was at my local 3-gun match with my PTR91K shooting against a couple guys with AR10s an FAL and several Springfields. I noticed the FAL guy and myself were experiencing ALOT more recoil than the 2 AR10 shooters. We were both using full power Surplus Ammo. I asked the AR10 shooters if they were handloading thier ammo and they said they were buying the cheap surplus ammo, pulling the bullet and reloading it the minimum power factor reusing the components (Primed case, powder, bullet). They said the cost of the components for reloading alone are more expensive than buying surplus.

Has anybody with an HK done this? It seems like a pain, but the reduced recoil would definately give an edge in competition. I just wonder how low I could go before the HK action fails to cycle reliably. If anything, for anyone unsure about shooting Surplus ammo, it would give you the piece of mind on how much powder is actually in the case.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:07:09 AM EDT
Wow... Seems like that almost defeats the purpose of buying cheap surplus ammo. I guess it all comes down to how competitive you want to be with those guys. If you're just out to have fun stick with the surplus ammo as is. You sure can waste a lot of time doing that as well...

Spooky
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:12:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArnisAndyz:
I was at my local 3-gun match with my PTR91K shooting against a couple guys with AR10s an FAL and several Springfields. I noticed the FAL guy and myself were experiencing ALOT more recoil than the 2 AR10 shooters. We were both using full power Surplus Ammo. I asked the AR10 shooters if they were handloading thier ammo and they said they were buying the cheap surplus ammo, pulling the bullet and reloading it the minimum power factor reusing the components (Primed case, powder, bullet)

Has anybody with an HK done this? It seems like a pain, but the reduced recoil would definately give an edge in competition. I just wonder how low I could go before the HK action fails to cycle reliably. If anything, for anyone unsure about shooting Surplus ammo, it would give you the piece of mind on how much powder is actually in the case.



I do it all the time with 45ACP (1911) and 223 (AR15) BUT NOT WITH SURPLUS.

You will need to measure the powder in the reduced load. There is a MINIMUM, published in reloading manuals. however, identifying the type of powder in surplus will be difficult. If there is not enough powder, the situation is EXTREMELY dangerous. A bullet can lodge in the barrel, the second shot will go boom. Also, if a bullet does not have enough energy to carry the bullet through the bore, the gas will exit backward out of the chamber.

You will need to start from scratch for reduced loads with known quantites (bullet weight, powder type, ect.). You may also have to use reduced recoil springs for the firearm to cycle.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:37:37 AM EDT
Thanks for the replys...I reload reduced loads for my 1911, so I'm familiar with minimum charges, spring tuning, etc.

What your saying is correct, with pulled surplus loads, there is no way of know what type of powder is in there...but I guess i could pull the bullet and weigh the powder (taking an average of 10 or so). This will give me a baseline weight to start with and reduce the grains slowly. I'm not looking to make powder puff rounds as the HK still needs a stout load to funtion correctly, I just want to see if I can reduce recoil a little.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:08:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 11:10:55 AM EDT by MouseBoy]

Originally Posted By ArnisAndyz:
Thanks for the replys...I reload reduced loads for my 1911, so I'm familiar with minimum charges, spring tuning, etc.

What your saying is correct, with pulled surplus loads, there is no way of know what type of powder is in there...but I guess i could pull the bullet and weigh the powder (taking an average of 10 or so). This will give me a baseline weight to start with and reduce the grains slowly. I'm not looking to make powder puff rounds as the HK still needs a stout load to funtion correctly, I just want to see if I can reduce recoil a little.



If you had a chronograph, you could slowly reduce the amount of surplus powder, keeping an eye on velocity. However, I would just replace the surplus powder with commercial powder. Powder is pretty cheap.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:28:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MouseBoy:
If you had a chronograph, you could slowly reduce the amount of surplus powder, keeping an eye on velocity. However, I would just replace the surplus powder with commercial powder. Powder is pretty cheap.



A chrono would be helpful wether I reuse the surplus OR use commercial powder. Our local club has one, maybe i'll try a few and do some testing. I'll probably get tired of pulling/reloading the ammo though and shoot it as is...but I'm just curious how much it would reduce recoil before cycling becomes an issue.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:50:21 AM EDT
Have you tried using the Heavy HK21 buffer, and rubber buttpad? Also you might try fitting one of those mercury filled recoil reducer thingys in the stock. I haven't tried it but all three combined should reduce the recoil some. A few of the guys over on HKpro were impressed with their results from the HK21 heavy buffer.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:05:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 12:08:54 PM EDT by ArnisAndyz]

Originally Posted By whs78:
Have you tried using the Heavy HK21 buffer, and rubber buttpad? Also you might try fitting one of those mercury filled recoil reducer thingys in the stock. I haven't tried it but all three combined should reduce the recoil some. A few of the guys over on HKpro were impressed with their results from the HK21 heavy buffer.



I did change the standard PTR stock to a Nambian FAL type stock and even though it has a standard buffer, its a much more solid stock than what come with it and it did seem to reduce recoil. I also put a limbsaver slip on pad on it, doesn't look very pretty but it works great. Having a hard time finding a heavy buffer, if you have a source please share! I'm also ordering a muzzle brake to see how it works.

Don't get me wrong...for me, recoil is not bad at all as is...I'm just looking for that "competitive advantage" for 3-gun. Rules dictate a minimim power floor (some clubs don't even enforce it) and the 308 surplus is WAY beyond and above that. I'll have to chrono it to see. i'd be more than happy to shoot full power ammo, but its not fair (in competition) when people your competing with have reduced loads and are back on target while your still finding a sight picture. For recreational "fun" shooting I like the big bang of the 308...otherwise I would have gotten something smaller.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:33:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArnisAndyz:

Originally Posted By whs78:
Have you tried using the Heavy HK21 buffer, and rubber buttpad? Also you might try fitting one of those mercury filled recoil reducer thingys in the stock. I haven't tried it but all three combined should reduce the recoil some. A few of the guys over on HKpro were impressed with their results from the HK21 heavy buffer.



I did change the standard PTR stock to a Nambian FAL type stock and even though it has a standard buffer, its a much more solid stock than what come with it and it did seem to reduce recoil. I also put a limbsaver slip on pad on it, doesn't look very pretty but it works great. Having a hard time finding a heavy buffer, if you have a source please share! I'm also ordering a muzzle brake to see how it works.

Don't get me wrong...for me, recoil is not bad at all as is...I'm just looking for that "competitive advantage" for 3-gun. Rules dictate a minimim power floor (some clubs don't even enforce it) and the 308 surplus is WAY beyond and above that. I'll have to chrono it to see. i'd be more than happy to shoot full power ammo, but its not fair (in competition) when people your competing with have reduced loads and are back on target while your still finding a sight picture. For recreational "fun" shooting I like the big bang of the 308...otherwise I would have gotten something smaller.



I use a lead weight I purchased through Bushmaster that fits right into the compartment of the AR stock.

(personally, the only gun I would consider truley competitive for match shooting is the AR15)

Top Top