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Posted: 12/18/2005 4:59:56 AM EDT
Isn't it ironic that you can get dirt cheap mags for most high end rifles like the G3 series and the FAL but you can't get a decent M14 mag for under $25 bucks? I know its how the surplus world works but its funny as hell...
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:24:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:45:45 AM EDT
For all its good and bad points, the M14 was one of the shortest lived US military rifles ever. It hung around officially for years but was really only issued on a large scale from 1960 or so till 1966. Im amazed we can still get USGI parts and mags as it is. The FAL and G3 on the other hand both were used for long periods of time and very widely distributed. The G3 spans from 1959 to roughly 1995 in Bundeswehr service, longer in the reserves. It is all a matter of supply and demand. I suppose the real question is "why doesnt someone manufacture decent m14 magazines at a reasonable price?"

As for the M14 being currently issued. It is totally a stopgap measure. Its an indication of the military not being prepared logistically. If we need a 7.62 rifle, we should have had one in the procurement and supply system. Right now the M14 is being used by select members of some units (although this is being somewhat overblown in the gun press). The problem is the M14 is not supported by the supply/maintenance system. When these guns break (and they do), the Army or individual units have to find parts on the commercial market. That is no way to support a weapons system.

After 24 years of military service, including two Bundeswehr tours and a tour in Afghanistan, Ive been personally exposed to these systems and issues.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:15:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTRancher:
For all its good and bad points, the M14 was one of the shortest lived US military rifles ever. It hung around officially for years but was really only issued on a large scale from 1960 or so till 1966. Im amazed we can still get USGI parts and mags as it is. The FAL and G3 on the other hand both were used for long periods of time and very widely distributed. The G3 spans from 1959 to roughly 1995 in Bundeswehr service, longer in the reserves. It is all a matter of supply and demand. I suppose the real question is "why doesnt someone manufacture decent m14 magazines at a reasonable price?"

As for the M14 being currently issued. It is totally a stopgap measure. Its an indication of the military not being prepared logistically. If we need a 7.62 rifle, we should have had one in the procurement and supply system. Right now the M14 is being used by select members of some units (although this is being somewhat overblown in the gun press). The problem is the M14 is not supported by the supply/maintenance system. When these guns break (and they do), the Army or individual units have to find parts on the commercial market. That is no way to support a weapons system.

After 24 years of military service, including two Bundeswehr tours and a tour in Afghanistan, Ive been personally exposed to these systems and issues.



I think you hit the issue right on the head!
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:29:07 AM EDT
You want ironic...

The first new 7.62mm Beta Mags are being produced for a military contract and the.. you guessed it, the M14.

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:43:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cms81586:
Isn't it ironic that you can get dirt cheap mags for most high end rifles like the G3 series and the FAL but you can't get a decent M14 mag for under $25 bucks? I know its how the surplus world works but its funny as hell...


No irony at all. Some 150 countries used either the FAL or G3 over a 40 year period. Only a single country used the M14 (OK, two if you count the Taiwanese copy) for a six year period. You might even say that the M14 never really got going here.

Furthermore, just about all FAL and G3 users have divested themselves of the hardware, many of which found its way here in the form of parts. The real dip in G3 mag prices came when Germany officially purged its stocks.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:11:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 3:16:07 PM EDT by Dano523]
You can get M-14 mags cheap, just not if your looking for USGI mags that were made in this country.

The trick to getting surplus M-14 mags is you buy the type 57 that were produced by/for the other country that used M-14 weapons.

If you check midwayusa.com, you will see that type 57 mags are going for under $10 a piece on sale right now.

As for holding out for USGI contract mags, let the sand pile conflict get over with, and you will be able to buy Checkmate M-14 mags for way under what the hords are charging for the old 30 year old mags.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 4:37:05 PM EDT
You can blame ("Wiz Kid") John McNamara of the Kennedy administration for the lack of M-14 USGI anything. He essentially ended the M14 career. In the same light, you can thank him for the AR15. He promoted it as a replcement for the M14.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:59:38 PM EDT
I just can't understand why someone here in the U.S. hasn't produced an AR-10 type rifle that accepts the HKG3 mags. I'm aware of the HK 7.62 AR-styled rifle that they developed that we'll probably never be able to purchase. I guess all the appeal to the manufacturers is gone now that they can produce hi-cap mags. They don't want you to be able to buy a rifle and buy cheap, surplus mags. Now that they can produce and sell hi-cap mags, they'd rather you buy their rifle that takes proprietary mags so that they can make some money off of their new, still expensive mags. Before the ban expired, they had to sell the guns on the basis that the guns would accept hi-cap mags that had already been produced, but not anymore. Maybe we all should get together and set up shop and start cranking out some guns similar to HKs AR-style rig!? With the mags as cheap as they are, these guns would have to sell!! Here's a pic of the HK, which I'm sure most of you have seen. This thing gives me wood!! ARKAR


Link Posted: 12/19/2005 3:56:25 PM EDT
I have seen the M14 in service all over the place in recent years. What what abou the new Marine Corps SAM-R? Has anyone heard about this making it into service?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 4:15:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARKAR:
I just can't understand why someone here in the U.S. hasn't produced an AR-10 type rifle that accepts the HKG3 mags. I'm aware of the HK 7.62 AR-styled rifle that they developed that we'll probably never be able to purchase. I guess all the appeal to the manufacturers is gone now that they can produce hi-cap mags. They don't want you to be able to buy a rifle and buy cheap, surplus mags. Now that they can produce and sell hi-cap mags, they'd rather you buy their rifle that takes proprietary mags so that they can make some money off of their new, still expensive mags. Before the ban expired, they had to sell the guns on the basis that the guns would accept hi-cap mags that had already been produced, but not anymore. Maybe we all should get together and set up shop and start cranking out some guns similar to HKs AR-style rig!? With the mags as cheap as they are, these guns would have to sell!! Here's a pic of the HK, which I'm sure most of you have seen. This thing gives me wood!! ARKAR

www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/18260hk4179nb.jpg




Because HK G3 mags can't work with a bolt hold open which all AR10's have. That is why Bushmaster was able to use FAL mags in their AR10, because they have a bolt hold open.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:11:49 PM EDT
I think I could live without the last-round bolt hold-open just fine. There are lots of firearms without that feature and it could be omitted from an AR-10.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:16:57 PM EDT
THat HK AR10 has a BHO button though. Why couldn't the G3 mag be used with a BHO that enters in the rear of the mag? Could the mag not be slightly modified to function with it?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:32:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTRancher:
For all its good and bad points, the M14 was one of the shortest lived US military rifles ever. It hung around officially for years but was really only issued on a large scale from 1960 or so till 1966. Im amazed we can still get USGI parts and mags as it is. The FAL and G3 on the other hand both were used for long periods of time and very widely distributed. The G3 spans from 1959 to roughly 1995 in Bundeswehr service, longer in the reserves. It is all a matter of supply and demand. I suppose the real question is "why doesnt someone manufacture decent m14 magazines at a reasonable price?"

As for the M14 being currently issued. It is totally a stopgap measure. Its an indication of the military not being prepared logistically. If we need a 7.62 rifle, we should have had one in the procurement and supply system. Right now the M14 is being used by select members of some units (although this is being somewhat overblown in the gun press). The problem is the M14 is not supported by the supply/maintenance system. When these guns break (and they do), the Army or individual units have to find parts on the commercial market. That is no way to support a weapons system.

After 24 years of military service, including two Bundeswehr tours and a tour in Afghanistan, Ive been personally exposed to these systems and issues.



Damn man, you nailed that sucker.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:42:06 AM EDT
the cheap G3 mags are just making up for all the other HK mags which cost $50+ each........regardless of which gun they are for ;)
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