Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 12/16/2005 9:40:59 AM EDT
I will be buying a new PTR-91 soon and have an opportunity to buy some South African surplus ammo. It is 70's and 80's production. Has anyone shot any of this stuff in signifacant quantity through their JLD? If so did it function well or did it excessively foul up the gun? Also how does Portuguese ammo run through these rifles? Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:46:18 AM EDT
I bought some of the SA battlepacks from AIM and it shoots just fine
through my PTR. This is the only 308 I have shot.

All of my experience has been with 5.56 mm prior to purchasing the
PTR and the 308 seems to leave a lot more carbon residue after
a day at the range as compared to my AR's. I don't know if this is
common with all 308 or only the SA ammunition.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:27:28 AM EDT
I find 'Most' 308 seems to shot just fine from the PTR's. As long as you stick with first world country manufacturers, you should be good.

Also, don't waste you money on new 308 ammunition, always buy surplus ball for this rifle.
Save the new boxed 308 for you bolt hunting guns.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:55:40 AM EDT
I've shot mostly Portugese, and Aussie through mine. Both are great stuff, but I can't find it anymore. Here lately I have been shooting SA. It seems ok, but one outing I had a really bad time with it gumming up my action. After every 40 to 50 rds. the bolt would sieze up. The ejecting shells would come out at increasingly shorter distances and finially the bolt locked up. After cleaning it out. It would work fine for a while then lock up again. I don't know why this happened. The last time I went to the range I used the SA in my FAL and PTR, but I didn't have any issues. My guess is I got a "dirty batch" before.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:16:01 PM EDT
I have had problems with "hunting ammo" that I have run through my PTR-91. I originally took it to the range with some Remington .308 Core-Lokt and it FTF and FTE'ed just about every single round. Talked to JLD, Inc. (really good to work with, by the way) said I should try surplus 7.62 ammo for the "break-in" period. Since then I've shot some Lake City and SA though it with absolutely no problems.

-JZ
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:31:52 PM EDT
SA ammo you get lots of build up and sometimes it doesnt cycle the bolt
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:44:59 PM EDT
400+ rounds of SA thru my PTR with not one problem, I bought 2000 more for it.....
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:53:02 PM EDT
I'm thinking about buying some 80's mfg Argentina ammo. Any bad experiences with this type?

-JZ
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:04:51 PM EDT
Just put a quick 60 rounds of SA throught my new PTR with no problems. During cleaning right afterward it was not that dirty at all. I have 3,000 rounds of SA ready to go.....its very good ammo!
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:32:54 PM EDT
Thanks for all the replies guys.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:56:03 PM EDT
Be politically correct and buy the "NM" stamped South African.

Not National Match, Nelson Mandella
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:58:39 PM EDT
I have shot quite a bit of SA through my CETME (same platform I think?) with no problems. The only ammo I have heard to avoid is th INDIAN ammo thats out there.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 10:50:33 AM EDT
dont use SA ammo, some runs of it are made with a tar based substance, which vaporizes when shot, adhears and crystalizes to the inside of the reciever, gumming up your rollers.

heres what i posted on a different forum just the other day...

"dont use it in fluted rifles...no G3s, no PTRs, no CETMEs....read one of the other posts where its mentioned here...it totally gunked up and siezed my PTR up, never again will I use it.

ill post and explain it one more time...

I spoke with a guy at JLD, who was their tech leader...he was in the SA military, so he has experience....he told me there was like 5 different types of SA .308 ammo, some of these batches used a sort of pine-tar in the section of the round where the bullet was seated to the casing..when fired this tar-like substance vaporized and crystalized to the inside of the rifle, not allowing the rollers to work properly.

As I said before, I couldnt fire more than 30-40 rounds without the PTR siezing up. I cleaned it for about 6-8 hours one day after the range trip for it to function rifle. Even after that it wasnt 100%, the action was VERY difficult. I shipped it to JLD, they fixed it, further cleaned it, and told me not to use SA ammo in it. I got it back, put more SA in it, same results, cleaned it up, and since then have only used Argentine in it. Works 100% now.

Because of the SA ammo, id have to break the rifle down, remove the spent round and reassemble (also wiping the parts down from the tar buildup, as it lookd like just heavy fouling). failure to feeds, and failures to ejects were every round with the SA ammo past the 40 round mark, the bolt wouldnt even seat itself properly all the ways forward.

in all, DO NOT USE SOUTH AFRICAN .308!

use Argentine, Commercial, Israeli, etc...no Pakistani, Indian, etc....


I ended up selling off the remaining SA battlepacks I had on hand, as I bought an entire case originally...ill NEVER use it again in my PTR, no need to ruin a nearly $1000 rifle because of some crappy surplus ammo..its just not worth it...feed your rifle the good stuff and it will treat you right in"
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 10:51:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JZ556:
I'm thinking about buying some 80's mfg Argentina ammo. Any bad experiences with this type?

-JZ



Argentine ammo is some of the best you can use
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:49:46 PM EDT
I read this information regarding the SA ammunition just as I received my 980 rounds of SA
in battle packs by UPS about 1 week ago.

Can I "work off" the SA by loading 2 or 3 Portuguese / Argentine to every SA in my magazines?
Will the cleaner buring ammo help remove the residue during shooting sessions?

I don't want to sell my SA if I don't have too.

thanks for any comments.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:42:01 AM EDT
I shoot paki. Hey, it was made to shoot in G3's. Like it better than the argy. The paki is sealed the same way RG ammo is sealed, lacquer on both the primer and at the case mouth. Some of it may have minor corrosion on cases, depending on where you get it from, but otherwise is good stuff.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 12:47:23 PM EDT
hmmmm, I have now put 500+ rounds of SA thru my PTR......with not one issue, 100+ before a cleaning. Put 200 thru a HK91 yesterday......again no issue, roller look fine.

but I will keep an eye on it, I have 2000 of the SA stuff.......unless it gives me issues I'll keep shootin it.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 9:11:58 AM EDT
Thanks Dieter122
Shocking SA info. I have not heard a peep of this on any other board.

jason_h
Where do you get your paki?

JR
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 5:10:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By racecar:
Thanks Dieter122
Shocking SA info. I have not heard a peep of this on any other board.

jason_h
Where do you get your paki?

JR



as I said, not all South African .308 is like this...only some runs/batches of it is. Theres about 5 different makes of SA .308 produced, I just got one of those tar based ones. Again, note, I got mine from AIM awhile ago, never bought more SA to run through the PTR. So, use it at your own risk, but dont post complaining that your G3's siezing up on you, and its JLDs fault somehow.

Id NEVER feed ANY rifle Indian or Pakistani ammo, its bottem of the barrel sort of ammo..downright dangerous too.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:25:54 PM EDT
I have shot hundred of rounds of SA through mine with out a problem - different cases purchased over 2 year period - I guess I was lucky. Aussie is nice but it appears to be gone for at least now.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:18:53 PM EDT
Heya guys, haven't oredered my PTR 91-A1 yet, but soon. Had some questions on ammo myself and this email came directly from Victor @ JLD:

"Jason, the information they gave you is not true.....you can use both commercial and surplus ammo, the barrel was made for the 147 to 168 gr bullets since it is a 1 in 12 RH twist, best ammo to break in the rifle is Remington UMC 150 gr FMJ, it takes about 200 rounds to fully break in the rifle, you can use also the following surplus; Portuguese, Argentine, British, Lake City, Australian and Spain.

Do not use the following surplus: South African, Indian, Austrian and CAVIM from Venezuela.

Happy Hunting!!!!!! and Merry Christmas!!!!!

Victor
JLD"

I'm just passing on the information that was given to me...
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 5:36:39 AM EDT
After reading staticfilter's comments regarding the SA ammunition does anyone have a suggestion
as to what I should do with me 1,000+ rounds of SA?

Should I buy a FAL to shoot it through?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:31:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StaticFilter:
Heya guys, haven't oredered my PTR 91-A1 yet, but soon. Had some questions on ammo myself and this email came directly from Victor @ JLD:

"Jason, the information they gave you is not true.....you can use both commercial and surplus ammo, the barrel was made for the 147 to 168 gr bullets since it is a 1 in 12 RH twist, best ammo to break in the rifle is Remington UMC 150 gr FMJ, it takes about 200 rounds to fully break in the rifle, you can use also the following surplus; Portuguese, Argentine, British, Lake City, Australian and Spain.

Do not use the following surplus: South African, Indian, Austrian and CAVIM from Venezuela.

Happy Hunting!!!!!! and Merry Christmas!!!!!

Victor
JLD"

I'm just passing on the information that was given to me...



Well I'll be!!! I have been shooting South African through my new PTR a lot!!! About 1,000 rounds now with no problems at all. I wonder what he means by don't shoot SA?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:38:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jmark:
After reading staticfilter's comments regarding the SA ammunition does anyone have a suggestion
as to what I should do with me 1,000+ rounds of SA?



No, you should send it to me for proper disposal.....

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:24:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By helogene:
Originally Posted By Jmark:
After reading staticfilter's comments regarding the SA ammunition does anyone have a suggestion
as to what I should do with me 1,000+ rounds of SA?



No, you should send it to me for proper disposal.....

Jmark, maybe you could pull a few of those bullets from the cartridge case and inspect them to see what type of sealant was used, it might save you from ditching your entire case of ammo.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:35:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dieter122:
as I said, not all South African .308 is like this...only some runs/batches of it is. Theres about 5 different makes of SA .308 produced, I just got one of those tar based ones. Again, note, I got mine from AIM awhile ago, never bought more SA to run through the PTR. So, use it at your own risk, but dont post complaining that your G3's siezing up on you, and its JLDs fault somehow.

Id NEVER feed ANY rifle Indian or Pakistani ammo, its bottem of the barrel sort of ammo..downright dangerous too.




If not all SA ammo has this issue, maybe someone needs to start tracking what lot numbers exhibit this problem. It could save a lot of people some headache.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:34:38 AM EDT
Venomousduck, I have two separate batches of the SA, one of them leaves a lot of residue in my PTR after shooting only 50 - 60 rounds. The other batch I have not fired yet. If I pull the bullets
from the cartridge as you suggest for inspection what am I looking for?

thanks,
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 6:02:35 AM EDT
Well I see quite a few people that use the South African surplus, I just figured I'd pass along the official response on the matter...
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 11:04:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dieter122:

Id NEVER feed ANY rifle Indian or Pakistani ammo, its bottem of the barrel sort of ammo..downright dangerous too.



We have all seen what the 90's dated indian ammo looks like and I would agree it is bad stuff, but I have not heard one story about paki blowing up anyones rifle. Hell, I haven't even read or heard one story of it causing problems with functioning. Some of it has seen poor storage conditions and as a result it may look a little ugly, but then so does the Argy currently on the market. It also may not be as accurate as port or aussie and will leave behind more carbon, but that is all that it can be criticized for.

racecar:
You can get paki at CAI, Ammunitionstore.com, and Sportmans Guide. I believe the stuff from SG and Ammunitionstore comes in sealed cans whereas the stuff from CAI comes in cardboard boxes. The stuff in sealed cans will probably look better.

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 4:18:44 PM EDT
Jmark, I would pull a few of the bullets of the batch that is leaving all the residue, look at the sealant used on them, and then pull a few of the bullets on the other unfired batch. If they both look the same then both batches will probably behave the same. I'm definitely no expert on this subject....just my .02
Top Top