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Posted: 12/14/2005 4:02:29 AM EDT
Does anyone know if there any issues with this? I was going to buy a case of it but was unsure if it would hurt my MP5 or SW5 clone. I'm sure this has been covered before....

Thanks in advance.

ARCAPTN
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:29:18 AM EDT
NO!

Do NOT use in an MP5/Clone, or for that matter, any closed bolt system.

It was designed specifically for the Sterling (open bolt) SMG in Arctic warfare conditions, not intended for use in closed bolt systems, nor pistols.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:38:17 AM EDT
Roger that! I guess I will keep looking for a good deal on 124gr ammo.

Any recommendations? Who has a good deal on 124gr 9mm these days?

Anyone?

Thanks,

AR­CAPTN
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:05:54 AM EDT
The ammunitionstore.com has ADCOM (NATO spec) 124gr FMJ 9mm for $109.95 per 1000rd case.

ADCOM MFG of Abu Dhabi, UAE (United Arab Emirates), is a fairly new factory and has been producing NATO spec small arms ammo since around 1996-97. Their ammo is made on all-new, top of the line machinery.

Good stuff.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:00:32 AM EDT
Order placed!! Thanks for the info.

ARCAPTN
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:21:34 AM EDT
No problem.

Hey.. and Thank YOU for your service (I just noticed you're in Iraq)
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:25:16 AM EDT









Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:18:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
The ammunitionstore.com has ADCOM (NATO spec) 124gr FMJ 9mm for $109.95 per 1000rd case.

ADCOM MFG of Abu Dhabi, UAE (United Arab Emirates), is a fairly new factory and has been producing NATO spec small arms ammo since around 1996-97. Their ammo is made on all-new, top of the line machinery.

Good stuff.



Have you used this stuff? I've heard pretty good reviews of their SS109/M855 loads for 5.56 - I've never heard of anyone using the 9mm stuff. What a great price...

Spooky
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:48:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

Have you used this stuff?


4K so far, in both SMG's and pistols, no problems.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:42:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

Have you used this stuff?


4K so far, in both SMG's and pistols, no problems.



Thanks for the heads up - I think I might get a couple thousand rounds then!

Spooky
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:13:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
NO!

Do NOT use in an MP5/Clone, or for that matter, any closed bolt system.

It was designed specifically for the Sterling (open bolt) SMG in Arctic warfare conditions, not intended for use in closed bolt systems, nor pistols.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/osprey21/Hirtenberger_9mm1.jpg




So, what would the difference be between an open bolt firing system and a closed bolt? The firing pin?

I've shot a couple of mags of the Hirtenberger through my Kahr K9 and it didn't seem like it had a lot more recoil than the other ammo I had been test firing.

That is an excellent price on the Nato 9mm, what are the specs on it, any idea? When it's advertised as Nato, what does that tell me?
Sealed primers and bullets?
Heavier cases?
+P pressures?
When you have +P pressures, does that equate to higher velosity?
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:50:11 AM EDT
It work great in my open bolt M-10. I'm in ND, where it regularly stays below zero for weeks at a time.

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:52:36 PM EDT
OK,

Since I'm not getting a lot of response to my questions, I thought I'd do some checking.

As to the brass, I had 300+ rounds of primed, cleaned and ready to load brass. Mixed mfg., when I started checking, I found 15 rds WIN white box (just grabbed a random sample), I was able to find another 15 rds of WWC Nato stamped brass and another 3 rds of +P+ stamped RP brass.

I put them on the scale and found they ranged between 50 gr. and about 55 gr. per case. To my surprise, the +P+ brass was at the low end of the range @ 50-51 gr while the WIN head stamp was running more mid range and the NATO stuff was at the high end but there was a fair amount of over lap between the NATO and the WIN cases.

Based on my random sampling, I really didn't see a real corelation between the weight of the brass and the WIN or NATO cases but the (limited sample) of +P+ was lighter

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:00:49 PM EDT
OK,

I went to the range today and took the HK94. I fired 50 rounds, mostly Winchester white box and handloads of 5.5 gr. Unique behind 124 gr Remington HP's and I tried 5 rounds of Hirtenberger +P+.

I was able to catch 2 of the +P+ cases and after inspection, I saw no sign of over pressure (flatened or pierced primers). The cases appeared to be normal. I brought them home and put them on the scale, they weighed in at 58.0 and 58.1 gr so the brass was heavier than all of the other cases I had weighed (again, limited sample).

So what's the deal? No signs of over or high pressure on the +P+ cases. If this stuff is unsafe on a closed bolt rifle, what would the signs be?
The recoil did seem to be a bit sharper but that's a subjective call, it may have been me just wanting it to show some pressure signs.
It would be interesting to do a blind test.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:30:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 12:35:58 AM EDT by Maddog_44]

Originally Posted By Maddog_44:
OK,

I went to the range today and took the HK94. I fired 50 rounds, mostly Winchester white box and handloads of 5.5 gr. Unique behind 124 gr Remington HP's and I tried 5 rounds of Hirtenberger +P+.

I was able to catch 2 of the +P+ cases and after inspection, I saw no sign of over pressure (flatened or pierced primers). The cases appeared to be normal. I brought them home and put them on the scale, they weighed in at 58.0 and 58.1 gr so the brass was heavier than all of the other cases I had weighed (again, limited sample).

So what's the deal? No signs of over or high pressure on the +P+ cases. If this stuff is unsafe on a closed bolt rifle, what would the signs be?
The recoil did seem to be a bit sharper but that's a subjective call, it may have been me just wanting it to show some pressure signs.
It would be interesting to do a blind test.





I've been chasing this dog for a couple of days now and here's what I 've found thanks to frfrogspad.com


Approximate Velocities:

Standard Load, +P Load, +P+ Load (Not SAAMI), Proof Pressure


9 mm 115 gr 1220 FPS @35,700 PSI 1280FPS @38,500 PSI 1335 FPS @42,000 PSI 52-55,000 PSI

9 mm 125 gr 1140 FPS @35,700 PSI 1180FPS @38,500 PSI 1250 FPS @42,000 PSI 52-55,000 PSI

Pressure data per SAAMI


So, to answer my questions, you do get more velosity along with an increase in pressure but looking at the velosity gains vs the pressure increases, it hardly seems worth the effort or the wear and tear on your firearm to shoot the +P+ ammo.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:29:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
NO!

Do NOT use in an MP5/Clone, or for that matter, any closed bolt system.

It was designed specifically for the Sterling (open bolt) SMG in Arctic warfare conditions, not intended for use in closed bolt systems, nor pistols.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v439/osprey21/Hirtenberger_9mm1.jpg



+1, if you want to shoot hot 9mm ammo like this in a MP5 clone, you would have to find some way to modify the MP5 to act like a MP5F (the French variant:HKPro at the bottom of the page) so that you would avoid damage to the weapon.
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