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Posted: 10/24/2005 8:25:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2005 11:35:15 AM EDT by VonOnken]
Damn Germans! Behold the HK417. Takes G3 mags and looks to be piston operated.

Bastards!

Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:28:29 PM EDT
What is that, Are you kidding
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:28:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2005 8:29:45 PM EDT by StealthyBlagga]
So what does this do that the Armalite/DPMS AR10 does not, apart from cost tiwce as much and take longer to reload ? Oh yeah, its got a piston so it has to be better... "does not crap where it eats" .

PS: is this a photoshop ?
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:29:10 PM EDT
Great another gun to not sell to us.
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:30:00 PM EDT
i think im in love
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:31:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
So what does this do that the Armalite/DPMS AR10 does not, apart from cost tiwce as much and take longer to reload ? Oh yeah, its got a piston so it has to be better... "does not crap where it eats" .

PS: is this a photoshop ?




Innovation, that thing is nice
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:31:48 PM EDT
OMG!!!
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:32:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2005 8:49:35 PM EDT by VonOnken]
No it is a real HK product. Comes in 12" 18" and 20" bbl lengths. Takes G3 mags. Supposed to be 100% reliable unlike other .308 rifles. Looks to be missing a bolt hold open device unless that little paddle looking thingy above paddle style mag release is it.

What does it do that Armalite/DPMS do not. Takes 100% Reliable Mags that cost about $5 each
and run cleaner than a traditional Stoner design.

Slap on one of those new Magpul stocks and you really have someting IMHO.

I dont care what anybody says. IF and that is a big F*cking IF, HK sells it domestically I will buy one no matter the cost! I would sell my left nut and yours to get it.
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:37:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:46:57 PM EDT
I like that it takes G3 mags.
How much for aluminum G3 mags vs M14/FAL mags?
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:50:33 PM EDT
I have seen G3 mags for around $3 to $5. Good GI m14 mags run around $20 on a good day to $35.
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 8:58:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VonOnken:
I have seen G3 mags for around $3 to $5. Good GI m14 mags run around $20 on a good day to $35.



My point exactly.
Might be expensive to start with, but mags'll be cheaper and they don't have to be mod'd
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 9:35:21 PM EDT
Anyone else amused to see the 7.62mm reappear?

I like the idea of giving the infantry a bigger gun, but then I don't have to carry it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 5:06:13 AM EDT
Looks nice but I wouldn't gravel at HK's feet trying to
get one.
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 5:20:19 AM EDT
yawn...
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 8:11:16 AM EDT
I'll echo the others and ask, "Does anyone actually think that us lowly-civilians are going to have an easy time getting one (or even get one, period?)"

My two favorite firearms companies, HK and SIG, have forsaken us.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed right now on FN - can't wait to see those nifty SCAR-L and SCAR-H beasties on the civvy market...
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 8:12:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
Oh yeah, its got a piston so it has to be better... "does not crap where it eats" .



Do I sense a diss on the MadOgre?
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 8:21:40 AM EDT
It has a bolt hold open feature. HK has been showing a piston 5.56 rifle (M4 clone) for years now.
IMO HK has changed. The hallmark features of the MP5- G3- G33 etc. such as delayed rollerlock and pressed steel recievers were it's claim to fame. Now it seems that HK is just a watered down company.
The US military does not say "how high?" when HK says to jump anymore. Back in the day HK had a virtual monopoly with the MP5, and would not listen to any input by operators, now they are paying the price.
The HK XM8 paled in comparison to the FN rifle, the oldschool guys thought for sure HK would win, but when it came down to brass tacks.......
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 8:56:05 AM EDT
Big enough recoil pad on it?
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 9:13:29 AM EDT
No, I'm not gonna tag this thread
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 9:15:26 AM EDT
Ill take 20
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 10:44:03 AM EDT
On second thought.. maybe.....

But with this stock.



Link Posted: 10/25/2005 10:46:20 AM EDT

MINE!!!


[
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 1:28:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2005 1:30:09 PM EDT by Spooky130]

Originally Posted By osprey21:
On second thought.. maybe.....

But with this stock.

img495.imageshack.us/img495/5908/arstock35ea.jpg
img495.imageshack.us/img495/2168/arstock20lp.jpg



Why does everyone wave the Magpul PRS banner when they see a 7.62N gun with 12" barrel? I would agree if you were saying this about the longer barrel versions but a precision stock on a short barreled gun doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

I love the idea but I'll never see this gun in a civilian's hands. HK hates US civies and we will never get their cool toys. What a bunch of retards...

Spooky
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 2:26:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

Originally Posted By osprey21:
On second thought.. maybe.....

But with this stock.

img495.imageshack.us/img495/5908/arstock35ea.jpg
img495.imageshack.us/img495/2168/arstock20lp.jpg



Why does everyone wave the Magpul PRS banner when they see a 7.62N gun with 12" barrel?


Makes ya crazy, don't it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 3:20:29 PM EDT
I'd take a pink "Hello Kitty" stock on the damn thing if they would just sell it to me!
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 3:30:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
So what does this do that the Armalite/DPMS AR10 does not, apart from cost tiwce as much and take longer to reload ?



It uses $2 mags, for one thing.
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 4:38:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ErzulisBoat:
...Back in the day HK had a virtual monopoly with the MP5, and would not listen to any input by operators, now they are paying the price...


What input was HK not listening to? To look at all the MP5 variants, including the French model, and some rather radical variants--it would appear that HK is willing to build just about anything if the money is there.
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 8:16:04 PM EDT
As far as the SCAR rifles are concerned I have not heard anything definitive that states FN is going to sell it on the US civilian market. Maybe I am wrong. I have seen pictures of the new semi-auto P90 and FN2000 that ARE being released in the near future in the US. I am seriously considering the FN2000 but will have to decide soon as the price is going up rapidly and supposedly only a limited number will be made. Both of these weapons will be made in Black and in a two tone black/green combo based on the pics I saw. They dumped the goofy SAW type flash break on the P90 and have gone with a better looking AR type. Plus its not grey in color a huge plus for me.

I think the HK417 would be a fine addition to my meager HK collection and a very interesting variant of the AR10/Stoner type rifle.

It is really to bad HK does what it does but maybe someday they will change.

One can only hope. I also hold out hope that Hilary Clinton will drop dead unexpectedly.

Link Posted: 10/26/2005 10:24:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Golovko:


What input was HK not listening to? To look at all the MP5 variants, including the French model, and some rather radical variants--it would appear that HK is willing to build just about anything if the money is there.



I disagree. When HK reps were involved in AAR's the input was ignored for years. They got the nickname "Luger heads" for a reason. Sans the ambi safety, nothing was done. The MP5 10 etc. with the bolt hold open and the like nearly gave the engineers in Germany heart attacks.
True, the nature of the design did not lend itself to control ergonomics, but I distinctly remember Operator input falling on deaf ears.
I like HK's older stuff, don't get me wrong, but the new HK setup is not what it used to be.
Link Posted: 10/26/2005 10:26:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
yawn...



+1, piss on HK's policies.
Link Posted: 10/26/2005 10:32:18 PM EDT
I think HK will reconsider civilian sales once FN has thoroughly kicked their asses in Gov't and civilian sales.

My dollars go to FN for now, until HK changes their tune.
Link Posted: 10/26/2005 11:55:42 PM EDT
i love my uspc but the 5.7 with no recoil and high cap mags, work it so bad over

even a baby can shoot a 5.7 its so easy
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 1:54:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2005 1:55:50 AM EDT by Stottman]

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

HK hates US civies and we will never get their cool toys. What a bunch of retards...

Spooky



HK looks at the US from a Buisness perspective..

When I toured the HK factory here in Germany last year, they said that WORLDWIDE civilian sales accounted for something like 7 or 8% of all sales.. WHile touring the factory, I didnt see a single civilian gun being made.. Even the pistols were being made for some US Gov't contract...

They were not confident that the US AW Ban was going to expire and stay expired.

Why bother with the legal aspect, possible product liabilty, and general pain in the ass when you already have the factory running 24 hours a day pumping out guns for Gov'ts? Not like they have a US factory...

Yes, they could build a US factory, but why take the large financial gamble? Remember that FN has had a factory in the US for about 20 years...
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 4:42:46 AM EDT
I see G3 mags for 1.99 often. I paid 1.60 each for 100 less than a month ago; haven't tested them all yet but so far no problems at all (using a non-clone '77 hk91)
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 6:17:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

HK hates US civies and we will never get their cool toys. What a bunch of retards...

Spooky



HK looks at the US from a Buisness perspective..

When I toured the HK factory here in Germany last year, they said that WORLDWIDE civilian sales accounted for something like 7 or 8% of all sales.. WHile touring the factory, I didnt see a single civilian gun being made.. Even the pistols were being made for some US Gov't contract...

They were not confident that the US AW Ban was going to expire and stay expired.

Why bother with the legal aspect, possible product liabilty, and general pain in the ass when you already have the factory running 24 hours a day pumping out guns for Gov'ts? Not like they have a US factory...

Yes, they could build a US factory, but why take the large financial gamble? Remember that FN has had a factory in the US for about 20 years...



I know, I know... The little jab makes me feel better though... Isn't there a law in Germany as well that prohibits the sale of military arms to civilians that even extends to selling to American civilians? I've heard that one too.

Spooky

PS - Where are the pictures of the factory? That's right - state secrets, no cameras allowed!
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 8:26:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2005 8:29:29 AM EDT by Stottman]

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Spooky130:

HK hates US civies and we will never get their cool toys. What a bunch of retards...

Spooky



HK looks at the US from a Buisness perspective..

When I toured the HK factory here in Germany last year, they said that WORLDWIDE civilian sales accounted for something like 7 or 8% of all sales.. WHile touring the factory, I didnt see a single civilian gun being made.. Even the pistols were being made for some US Gov't contract...

They were not confident that the US AW Ban was going to expire and stay expired.

Why bother with the legal aspect, possible product liabilty, and general pain in the ass when you already have the factory running 24 hours a day pumping out guns for Gov'ts? Not like they have a US factory...

Yes, they could build a US factory, but why take the large financial gamble? Remember that FN has had a factory in the US for about 20 years...



I know, I know... The little jab makes me feel better though... Isn't there a law in Germany as well that prohibits the sale of military arms to civilians that even extends to selling to American civilians? I've heard that one too.

Spooky

PS - Where are the pictures of the factory? That's right - state secrets, no cameras allowed!



I have heard people mention the Miltary weapons law, but as far as I know, that only covers actual Military weapons like MGs, etc. A semi auto AW is not considered an military weapon. There are a handful of German companies producing AWs for civilian use, and many are exported...

PIcs, all they would let us take pics of was their little demo room with all the guns.
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 8:40:13 AM EDT
I'd be curious what portion of the worldwide 7%-8% was the US market. I'd be willing to bet that it was a substantial one.

Even then, I guess I still don't understand the business practices behind not caring about 7% or 8% that much.

From what HK makes per year (145.1 million Euro in 2003, which comes out to about $176 million at current exchange rates), 7% of that is $12.32 million.

A "lot" of money from some businesses standpoint? Perhaps not, but still a sizable chunk of change that could only increase if they would offer us what we wanted...

Like I said, I don't get it...
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 8:48:48 AM EDT
I like it!

If H&K made a certain portion of the parts in the U.S. and imported the rest wouldn't that be legal? I know that when I build a gun from scratch that I have to have less than 10 of the named imported parts on my gun, the rest have to be made in the U.S. The list isn't very long so it doesn't seem to me that it would be difficult if that's the case for factory made firearms as well. I forget the code that tells me exactly what parts, that's at home and I'm at the office right now, it's something like 27cfr*****. I could always look it up and post it, but the point is that if the same standard applies to factory made guns then they would only need a small factory here or they could even farm them out to subcontractors and then either have the parts brought back to Germany for assembly or have the work done here.

I wouldn't mind replacing my AR-10 with this gun at all.

Just a thought,
Robert
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 8:33:19 AM EDT
I think I would have to go for that one myself over anything else I have seen.
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 9:33:23 PM EDT
The HK417 looks really good but I think I will wait for FN SCAR-H!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:51:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:08:08 PM EDT
This is the best I can do Sammy:


ARKAR
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:24:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:35:37 PM EDT
Just a side note, for those that like the idea of a Magpul PRS on it, the HK 417 uses a proprietary buffer diameter that makes it non interchangeable with any other AR stocks.

Also, the only thing so far that appears to be interchangeable with any AR series is the fire control group.

Why HK would try to make it look like an AR, who knows. I doubt the fire control group is going to change many minds anyways.

With that said, I want one.
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