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Posted: 7/14/2003 6:59:07 AM EDT
Does the bolt on an MP5 and/or HK94 lock open after the last round is fired? I was under the impression it did, but have not fired one in person.

Link Posted: 7/14/2003 7:11:04 AM EDT
Mine doesn't hold open on empty. And I don't think any of them do. I have a FA MP5. Always closes on empty.

One of the reasons the Colt M16 9mm guys win at subgun matches is faster mag changes.

MP5 =
1) Gun runs dry
2) Pull back and lock bolt
3) Pull out empty mag with left hand (does not drop free)
4) Reach back and get new mag with left hand and insert into magwell. Pull down to assure it is properly seated.
5) Pull down on bolt release handle and close the action

Watching someone do this you see the left hand does everything. It takes some time.

M16 =
1) Gun runs dry, bolt holds open
2) While reaching for new mag with left hand, push mag release with right trigger finger
3) Slam in new mag
4) Slap bolt release

Watch a guy who is good with an M16 and it is a blur. When the bolt locks open the empty mag is falling and the new one being jammed in before the old one hits the ground.

Trust me, it is WAY quicker with the M16. While the MP5 is a joy to shoot, easy to handle, accurate enough, reliable, etc. It does not match the M16 platform in my opinion.

If you hear different about mag hold open for the HK please email me in case I miss it. I would love that option.


Link Posted: 7/14/2003 8:00:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 8:02:15 AM EDT by Dawg180]
I let you know- I just bought an HK94 clone and it is showing up on Friday. It did not even occur to me whether or not the bolt locked open until this morning (fire my M4 so much I just assumed EVERY self loading longarm did!). Almost got a Colt subgun, but I didn't feel like paying $100 for mags that will operate the bolt catch!

Out of curiosity, why would you lock the bolt back and then insert a mag? To check for a clear chamber? Why not drop (er, pull out- no dropping $50 mags) the mag, insert a full one, and then just rack the bolt handle?

Dawg
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 8:30:49 AM EDT
Dawg

You could insert the mag without first locking back the bolt. Assuming you download the mag by a round or two. Otherwise, you might not get the mag properly locked in.

You do raise a good question though. I am seeing the guy who trained me on this thing today on another issue. I'll ask him why lock it back first instead of just changing mags and racking the bolt since I seem to remember he recommends downloaded mags too.



Link Posted: 7/14/2003 11:53:28 AM EDT
The delayed blow back HK systems do not use hold open devices, just like the AK's.

The reasoning behind this is it is better to start off with a new mag, then to rely on the hold open to switch mags.


Jimmy, to answer your question on mag changes.
The MP-5 requires that the cocking devise be released to free run with full force to lock the action. By cocking/locking the handle, after you have inserted the mag, all that is left is to HK slap the cocking handle, which allows it to free run and close the action, preventing you from riding the cocking handle/short cocking the rifle.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 1:36:53 PM EDT
Dano,

As they say in Asia, "Ahhh, all is revealed in time".

Thanks

Link Posted: 7/16/2003 4:29:13 AM EDT
Dawg180, glad to see you got your HK-94 even if it's a clone

One of the reasons that the MP-5/HK-94 does not lock the bolt back on an empty mag is because the HK engineers felt that leaving the bolt back exposed the chamber to debris getting in it.

At HKITD, they teach MP-5 operators to count their rounds and change mags before they run dry.

It takes a bit get used to the HK reloading method but all it's takes is time and training, training, training.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 5:40:38 AM EDT
Yup, I am very excited- got a custom built clone with a paddle release and a metal lower with a navy grip (full plastic wasn't available) and already have ordered an E&L barrel shroud. If everything shows up on time I should be popping targets by Sunday morning!





Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:04:44 AM EDT
The MP5/10 and 40 have bolt hold open devices.
When the guns were designed that feature was not one that was asked for.
Now with the emphasis on speed reloads H&K has given the public what it needs.
Proper tactics would dictate you trying to reload from behind cover I kbnow you won't win many matches that way but you just may live another day in the real world.
Other than Commando actions most police use of the sub gun/carbine and any civilian use would probably have the problem cleared in less than 1 magazine.
If you need more than 1 call for help , you need it.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 4:27:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Yup, I am very excited- got a custom built clone with a paddle release and a metal lower with a navy grip (full plastic wasn't available) and already have ordered an E&L barrel shroud. If everything shows up on time I should be popping targets by Sunday morning!



You're gonna love shooting it Dawg180. Getting 100 rnds. of Winchester ValuePak for $11 is so sweet!! I usually shoot 300 rnds. through mine every time I go to the range.

One piece of advice - don't shoot WinClean ammo through. Because of its operation (delayed blowback), you're rifle will get filthy no matter what you do (much more so than a AR) but WinClean makes it even more IMHO. The little bits of primer (or whatever) get all over the inside of the receiver and make it seem like you dragged your rifle through a swamp.


BTW, did you happen to order some HK specific cleaning brushes (form E&L) when you ordered your shroud? The receiver brush is very handy and the other two brushes (the chamber and chamber faces) are essential.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 5:18:56 AM EDT
No, I didn't order the brushes...thanks for the advice, I will order some today.

As for ammo, I usually shoot winchester white box, although I have recently taken a shining to the CCI/Speer Blazer stuff- my 1911 eats it like candy although it can be a bit dirty. Natchez is currently selling 9mm blazer at $4.92/50 rounds. I also stopped by Gander Mountain (don't think they have those down in southern IL yet) and got a bulk box of 250 rounds of CCI/Speer 147gr JHP for $40.

Have you tried any of that Austrian +P+ stuff in your HK94? I think Widener's has been selling it- the price is really good, but I had some concerns about the pounding it would give the weapon over time.



Link Posted: 7/17/2003 5:27:34 AM EDT
Second the cleaning brushes. I tried cleaning mine before I got these. Needless to say, it took forever without them.

One big negative to the HK system is it does get dirty. I know this is heresy to say about an expensive gun, but since I shoot mine about twice a week, I don't clean it e very time. Run about 500 rounds through it (2-3 trips) then clean the shit out of it.

Seems to be working. Never had a failure of any kind.

Link Posted: 7/17/2003 6:33:16 PM EDT
The most rounds I ever ran through my 94 in one range trip was 700 and, being an HK, it never missed a beat.

Dawg180, as far as +P+ goes, you would need to change out some parts (don't recall exactly which ones) to use that ammo without causing premature/excessive wear.

The French use +P+ in their MP-5's HK makes a specific model for them called the MP-5F.

If you search around the HK Pro boards, you can get more specifics.
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