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Posted: 6/23/2017 9:09:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a "high" adapter in the above pic. Here's one maybe: http://www.fnfal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414564 Or you might try Lucky Irishman Firearms Don't forget that you'll also need a para stock bolt for the adapter. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 11:09:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, that is the high adaptor, from the original Tbas thread. I've also got one of Lear70's, and I think that's probably him in the facepage link. Don't forget that you'll also need a para stock bolt for the adapter. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 8:25:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a "high" adapter in the above pic. Here's one maybe: http://www.fnfal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414564 Or you might try Lucky Irishman Firearms |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 8:57:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, that is the high adaptor, from the original Tbas thread. I've also got one of Lear70's, and I think that's probably him in the facepage link. Don't forget that you'll also need a para stock bolt for the adapter. really know the parts differences in internals. I just know to do a para folder swap involves several parts. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 8:58:22 AM EDT
[#5]
To answer your question OP, the FAL is still relevant on the current battlefield. Why? Because it works. Armies and security forces around still use them, just like AKs. Will the US adopt it over the Scar-H? No. Then again
the FAL had 60 years to get adopted and was never fielded. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 12:28:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just a para bolt or will I need a para lower and dust cover/scope mount as well? 
Some production para top covers may have had a standoff at the rear, if they were intended for a lower with a corresponding slot. Mine does not. The scope base top cover offered by DSA is not available with a nose, but still works with paras of course. |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:08:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Regarding the Para interest...
I've had over a half dozen factory assembled Paras, and just could not warm up to the little stick the action spring rode on. It seems like a failure point, but I never tested it. I only casually shot my paras at the range (low low low volume and no heat / stress). |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 11:10:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To answer your question OP, the FAL is still relevant on the current battlefield. Why? Because it works. Armies and security forces around still use them, just like AKs. Will the US adopt it over the Scar-H? No. Then again the FAL had 60 years to get adopted and was never fielded. |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 7:13:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Why not just take a fighting rifle class with an FAL and deiced for yourself. I have used the FAL on a fighting rifle class and it was fine. the AR15 rifles in the class had more options and did better but I didn't feel that out gunned. You may want to spend a bit of time on the H & K 91/G3 rifle and see what you think of that and then look at all of the worlds militaries that still use it like Iran, Turkey and others. That is a brutal rifle compared to the FAL from the operators standpoint. The point being if the G3 is still relevant then the FAL should be. Brazil uses the FAL still and while they are also using 223 rifles they don't seem under gunned with FALs. I belive Peru or Bolivia just signed a contract to rebuild their FALs and many African game wardens still use FALs so I guess it still can pull it's weight. I to use the AR type rifle for most of my firearms needs but the FAL is still great. I would say that the FAL is like a old K5 Blazer or Toyota FJ. Old slow with few frills but reliable and fun.
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Posted: 7/3/2017 10:14:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not just take a fighting rifle class with an FAL and deiced for yourself. I have used the FAL on a fighting rifle class and it was fine. the AR15 rifles in the class had more options and did better but I didn't feel that out gunned. You may want to spend a bit of time on the H & K 91/G3 rifle and see what you think of that and then look at all of the worlds militaries that still use it like Iran, Turkey and others. That is a brutal rifle compared to the FAL from the operators standpoint. The point being if the G3 is still relevant then the FAL should be. Brazil uses the FAL still and while they are also using 223 rifles they don't seem under gunned with FALs. I belive Peru or Bolivia just signed a contract to rebuild their FALs and many African game wardens still use FALs so I guess it still can pull it's weight. I to use the AR type rifle for most of my firearms needs but the FAL is still great. I would say that the FAL is like a old K5 Blazer or Toyota FJ. Old slow with few frills but reliable and fun. |
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Posted: 7/4/2017 6:25:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Well, I've got AR 15, CAR 15 & M14 (select fire), M1A and a real FN/FAL select fire.
I have also shot some of the other similar rifles. I must say that I am NOT the least bit impressed with most of them! I can do anything with my FN/FAL that can be done with any of the others. Since I was raised shooting good heavy all steel/wood full power rifles I have NO problem of any sort with the FN/FAL! Yes I like my CAR 15 and it would be my take along/back up rifle in a SHTF scenario. I also do not have any type of fancy sights on my rifle, just what came from the factory - which is plenty good out to about 500 yds. Since I have also got an advantage over most in the use of rifles in combat - been there done that & have the scars to prove it - I have a pretty good idea of what is required to engage an enemy and survive the encounter! I did, they Didn't! Sarge |
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Posted: 7/8/2017 5:12:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The really un-special thing about the FAL is its tilting bolt, which is known to cause vertical stringing as a 20 round magazine empties (and the resultant pressure against the bolt changes). What average group sizes do you get out of your highly accurized FAL? I actually redesigned the bolt somewhat so that the mag no longer puts pressure on the bolt carrier. This is the main reason people have problems being accurate with their FAL. Machining the upper and lower half of the carrier on a FAL just enough that there is no pressure pushing up on the carrier and chambered round from the magazine is the trick to making a FAL accurate. Using a handguard that locks the barrel and piston tube together like the DSA handguard also stops much of the vibration and twist as a round is fired. Enlarging the mouth of the chamber enough to make sure the tips of bullets are not flattened is another thing that must be done. I get under 1'' groups at 100 yards fairly easily. Some groups are larger and sometimes smaller. I consider 1'' to be fairly average if I am not causing larger groups myself. |
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Posted: 7/8/2017 5:21:31 PM EDT
[#13]
If I woke up in a field with an FAL next to me and a bandolier of mags along with a note saying "people are coming to kill you" I would not feel undergunned.
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Posted: 7/13/2017 3:25:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The really un-special thing about the FAL is its tilting bolt, which is known to cause vertical stringing as a 20 round magazine empties (and the resultant pressure against the bolt changes). There are a few ways to get rid of this play and make the problem go away. |
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Posted: 7/17/2017 8:05:42 PM EDT
[#15]
I'd be curious to hear more from any of you guys about accurizing the FAL, such as the carrier mods that were being discussed. I've been trying to research that subject on and off for a while now, but it's hard to find good info since a certain gunsmith decides to shit up every thread about it on the FALfiles because "it's not how they were issued." It seems like most people are obsessed with recreating Rhodesia, rather than trying to make the FAL better to shoot. The Billabong thread is great, but it's mostly dealing with user interface problems, not really mechanical accuracy.
Should I start a thread on the subject? I think we might have enough participants to maybe get something going. As far as the actual subject of this thread, I'm personally of the opinion that having a reliable rifle, being able to use it, and being wiling to use it puts you ahead of most of this country. The only semi I owned for a long time was my L1A1. |
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Posted: 7/17/2017 8:26:39 PM EDT
[#16]
N_H: I think that the topic of accurizing the FAL is most certainly worthwhile, but it deserves its own thread.
My FALs are fine as they are in their original trim, but I'd love to see the input of those who have are willing to push the boundaries. |
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Posted: 7/17/2017 9:30:55 PM EDT
[#17]
I'd like to hear about accurization also. Someone please start a thread.
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Posted: 7/17/2017 11:50:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd be curious to hear more from any of you guys about accurizing the FAL, such as the carrier mods that were being discussed. I've been trying to research that subject on and off for a while now, but it's hard to find good info since a certain gunsmith decides to shit up every thread about it on the FALfiles because "it's not how they were issued." It seems like most people are obsessed with recreating Rhodesia, rather than trying to make the FAL better to shoot. The Billabong thread is great, but it's mostly dealing with user interface problems, not really mechanical accuracy. Should I start a thread on the subject? I think we might have enough participants to maybe get something going. As far as the actual subject of this thread, I'm personally of the opinion that having a reliable rifle, being able to use it, and being wiling to use it puts you ahead of most of this country. The only semi I owned for a long time was my L1A1. |
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Posted: 7/18/2017 11:13:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not just take a fighting rifle class with an FAL and deiced for yourself. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 9:25:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Eh... I think I'd buy a FAL again (sold my first) if a quality/reputable brand sold one. How badass would it be if FNH made one for US civilians?!
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Posted: 7/30/2017 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't think FN will ever make them again. They sell the SCAR 17 for way more money, and it's much less expensive to produce.
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Posted: 7/31/2017 7:27:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Nothing wrong with a FAL in a modern battlefield..
Of course its not very modular like more recent AR/SCAR/etc but for a KISS setup it will work just fine. Mounting a RDS or a scope is not an issue. As long as spare parts are available I'll keep my good old StG.58 
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Posted: 7/31/2017 9:03:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Those are Croatian soldiers? Do they still use the FAL? Looks like their indigenous VHS2 is the primary rifle, but they have a mix of stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Army#Equipment |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 1:35:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Frankly anything 7.62 NATO is not ideal as a combat rifle.
The FAL is still workable, but you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. I love FALs but it is due to their history more than their capability. I have a G1 and Aussie L1A1, but they are set up in a legacy manner as much as possible, no modern rails and such. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 1:40:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems like most people are obsessed with recreating Rhodesia, rather than trying to make the FAL better to shoot. That said a thread on FAL accuracy would be interesting. I'd like to better understand their inherent field accuracy and what it takes to improve it. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 11:18:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm more of the "recreating Rhodesia" (and Mad Mike's mercs in the Congo, etc.) than making FALs into modern weapons. 
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Posted: 8/8/2017 3:39:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think FN will ever make them again. They sell the SCAR 17 for way more money, and it's much less expensive to produce. |
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Posted: 8/8/2017 4:25:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Umm, without saying too much. From talking to FN employees at a recent vendor event, don't be too sure of that. |
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Posted: 8/8/2017 7:00:21 PM EDT
[#29]
My first FAL was a SAR-48 Bush rifle with a ARMS cover which had a 2.5x scope attached. Took my longest shot on a whitetail with it at 300m, one shot. Got my second FAL a Belgium 50.63 with a Douglas Premium Match barrel for $1 when in Bad Tolz Germany. Sold it for the same as I couldn't bring it home after Reagan signed the import ban in 88'. I've dug up some buried FALs in Kuwait after GW1 in 94', cleaned them up and they worked fine. I've also been known to leave my M4A1 behind and pick up a FAL for convoy duty in Iraq. Did one jump with one back in 86' at Ft Bliss Tx.
CD |
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Posted: 8/8/2017 8:17:08 PM EDT
[#30]
I just bought some of the Malaysian 7.62 for my FAL
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Posted: 8/9/2017 6:14:53 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Umm, without saying too much. From talking to FN employees at a recent vendor event, don't be too sure of that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't think FN will ever make them again. They sell the SCAR 17 for way more money, and it's much less expensive to produce. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 10:50:51 AM EDT
[#32]
If you're planning on combat, buy the best you can. If you are preparing for a slim chance of having to us it, almost anything works. Does it meet your primary criteria?
Reliability Accuracy needed not wanted Parts availability if needed Ammunition and magazines availability / or stockpiled In shtf a proven military rifle with 1000+ rds and a common caliber that shoots 2-3 moa is better than a custom ar-10 chambered in 260rem that shoots 1/4 - 1/2 moa unless you have tons of ammo stashed everywhere. That being said, a bolt action deer rifle and a handful of bullets should be able to get you a battle rifle and ammo in a shtf situation. It should be gtg. I would rather have an ar-15, ak47, and ak74 for wtf ever happens. Easier to resupply off of what you find on the enemy. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 11:13:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Yes.
IMHO most semi auto military rifles developed starting with the Garand are still viable. Might not be my first choice, but still useful. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 1:17:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it's wrong to tease us like that, LOL.  But a tease is all I really got from them
The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing and producing a thoroughly modernized FAL rifle. They couldn't (or wouldn't) go much more into it than that. I got the idea that they see a potential market that is currently un fulfilled by the industry, and that the FAL might be the answer to that.. No idea if it will be for us lowly peons, or just military type contracts. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 3:14:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 3:45:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would they need to do that? Why wouldn't they still have everything they need? I can't imagine that they sold all rights and/or tooling to Imbel. I'm pretty certain anyone can produce FAL clones for sale. Any patent protection should have expired long ago. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:01:07 PM EDT
[#37]
I must admit, I did not inquire as to the manufacturing rights and they were fairly coy about it.
I wonder if perhaps they were meaning sole manufacturing rights or some such? |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:37:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea I know But a tease is all I really got from them
The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing and producing a thoroughly modernized FAL rifle. They couldn't (or wouldn't) go much more into it than that. I got the idea that they see a potential market that is currently un fulfilled by the industry, and that the FAL might be the answer to that.. No idea if it will be for us lowly peons, or just military type contracts. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:40:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well getting the sights on the same half would have helped but now the key would be getting a good picatinny type mount that isn't a questionable dust cover. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yea I know But a tease is all I really got from them
The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing and producing a thoroughly modernized FAL rifle. They couldn't (or wouldn't) go much more into it than that. I got the idea that they see a potential market that is currently un fulfilled by the industry, and that the FAL might be the answer to that.. No idea if it will be for us lowly peons, or just military type contracts. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 8:14:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I woke up in a field with an FAL next to me and a bandolier of mags along with a note saying "people are coming to kill you" I would not feel undergunned. But I once owned a IMBEL FAL. Mechanically It was a fantastic rifle. Ergonomically it was a nightmare. They never fit me right. Stocks are always too long in pull. I always dreamed of a Para FAL with a stock that fit me but never could find one. Both the FAL and G3 were made for Orangutan Arms. The M14 with all of its defects fit me better. But the FAL was never originally intended to be a full size battle rifle. It was meant to fire an intermediate cartridge like the 7.92x33mm Kurtz. Having the rifle adapted to work with 7.62x51mm stretched its limits. Is it outdated? Yes in terms of being a first world military power's service rifle. But it isn't outdated for combat. It will kill someone just was well today as it did 60 years ago. The FAL as a tool for reserve forces is not bad. They work and will do the job. Same with G3s, AKs, M1 Garands, etc.... Personally the AR is my go to rifle. But my Daewoo K2 is always tied with the AR. |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 4:53:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having the rifle adapted to work with 7.62x51mm stretched its limits.  Secrets of the 8mm FAL revealed! |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 4:56:11 PM EDT
[#42]
It's a good gun. The only problem with the FAL is size and weight (given you have a properly made one).
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Posted: 8/10/2017 6:46:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Both the FAL and G3 were made for Orangutan Arms.
I love the South African long stocks.
The FAL isn't any more ill-suited to 7.62 NATO than any of its contemporaries; they all handle it fairly equally well (or not, given the limitations of the cartridge). |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 9:40:58 PM EDT
[#44]
The early FAL was redesigned for 7.62mm NATO. I believe the production rifles do not share a receiver or bolt carrier group with the 7.92x33mm prototypes. They changed everything they needed to, so there is no undue stress on anything, especially if there's enough to work with to chamber 8mm, as there obviously is. (Awesome BTW!)
I think when they made the .280/30 prototype, they standardized most dimensions to the modern FAL. The case was already based on the US T65 (.308) case, so nothing had to be changed later when the NATO cartridge was adopted. 
I have Orangutan Arms, and can use any 7.62 battle rifle without difficulty.
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Posted: 8/17/2017 12:40:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My experience seems to be unique. I had a DSA SA58 Para Elite with a 16" fluted barrel. I bought it for the FAL's legendary reliability and DSA's good reputation. I was looking for something heavy-duty and extremely reliable for post-hurricane and/or future shtf type scenarios (lived in FL). http://willandmeans.com/images/FAL/IMG_0561.JPG First of all, after a few hundred rounds, a casing got stuck in the chamber and wouldn't budge. In pulling the charging handle to attempt to extract the casing, the charging handle BROKE OFF! It was some cast aluminum or pot metal garbage that was disappointing to see on such a supposedly heavy-duty (and relatively pricey) rifle. Talked to DSA and they sent a replacement that was ... made of steel. Much better. http://willandmeans.com/images/FAL/IMG_0548.JPG Fast forward a little bit - from what I understand, in order to facilitate a railed top cover, DSA had to redesign the Recoil Guide Rod (?) and the current design seems to break. During normal shooting at the range, the recoil rod broke, rendering the rifle inoperable. It is just a little metal tail and it broke off completely. Back to DSA, who sent a new one immediately for free. Great CS. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/435611/12342-1--223292.JPG Then it broke again. Same part, same place. I wasn't running a suppressor or doing anything crazy with it. A cursory google search indicated that I wasn't the only one having the problem. DSA happily replaced it again, but I never shot it again. I installed the new recoil rod and sold the gun because I couldn't trust it. I owned it for less than a year, and having 3 show-stopping failures was really disappointing. I don't know if DSA's attempt to modernize the classic gun is where it went wrong, but for me, the DSA FAL was just not at all what I was expecting. My SCAR 17 sbr, on the other hand, has given me exactly zero problems and has been awesome in every way. It eats all ammo, never complains, and never breaks. On top of everything else, it weighs POUNDS less than the FAL did (or at least it feels that way), so it's really a win win win all around. http://willandmeans.com/images/scar17/dsc_0504%20800x531.jpg http://willandmeans.com/images/scar17/dsc_0521%20800x531.jpg |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 12:37:42 AM EDT
[#46]
Can I join the orangutan arms club? The rule of thumb I heard for determining correct length of pull is to place the buttstock in the crook of your elbow, between your bicep and forearm. If your hand then naturally grips the pistol grip and places your trigger finger in a good position on the trigger, the LOP is correct. FALs fit perfectly when I do this.
As much as I'd like to believe this is brilliant design, there can't have been as many people this gangly in the 50s. The LOP probably has more to do with the reciprocating distance of the carrier and desired recoil spring force than with any particular ergonomic considerations. On the other hand, Diudonne Saive also designed the FN Hi-Power, which is the best-feeling handgun I've ever held, so maybe he was just a hulking brute of a man. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 4:06:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you can me a M1896 Krag Cavalry Carbine and a Bandoiler of ammo I wouldn't feel undergunned. Same with a FAL. But I once owned a IMBEL FAL. Mechanically It was a fantastic rifle. Ergonomically it was a nightmare. They never fit me right. Stocks are always too long in pull. I always dreamed of a Para FAL with a stock that fit me but never could find one. Both the FAL and G3 were made for Orangutan Arms. The M14 with all of its defects fit me better. But the FAL was never originally intended to be a full size battle rifle. It was meant to fire an intermediate cartridge like the 7.92x33mm Kurtz. Having the rifle adapted to work with 7.62x51mm stretched its limits. Is it outdated? Yes in terms of being a first world military power's service rifle. But it isn't outdated for combat. It will kill someone just was well today as it did 60 years ago. The FAL as a tool for reserve forces is not bad. They work and will do the job. Same with G3s, AKs, M1 Garands, etc.... Personally the AR is my go to rifle. But my Daewoo K2 is always tied with the AR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I woke up in a field with an FAL next to me and a bandolier of mags along with a note saying "people are coming to kill you" I would not feel undergunned. But I once owned a IMBEL FAL. Mechanically It was a fantastic rifle. Ergonomically it was a nightmare. They never fit me right. Stocks are always too long in pull. I always dreamed of a Para FAL with a stock that fit me but never could find one. Both the FAL and G3 were made for Orangutan Arms. The M14 with all of its defects fit me better. But the FAL was never originally intended to be a full size battle rifle. It was meant to fire an intermediate cartridge like the 7.92x33mm Kurtz. Having the rifle adapted to work with 7.62x51mm stretched its limits. Is it outdated? Yes in terms of being a first world military power's service rifle. But it isn't outdated for combat. It will kill someone just was well today as it did 60 years ago. The FAL as a tool for reserve forces is not bad. They work and will do the job. Same with G3s, AKs, M1 Garands, etc.... Personally the AR is my go to rifle. But my Daewoo K2 is always tied with the AR. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 5:29:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can I join the orangutan arms club? The rule of thumb I heard for determining correct length of pull is to place the buttstock in the crook of your elbow, between your bicep and forearm. If your hand then naturally grips the pistol grip and places your trigger finger in a good position on the trigger, the LOP is correct. FALs fit perfectly when I do this. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 5:46:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doing that determines the minimum LOP with which I could possibly be comfortable (13"). I prefer LOP to be about 15" for most rifles. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 6:50:47 PM EDT
[#50]
I have kind of wanted a FAL for a while. But since I got my HK91 recently, I've realized that I don't really want any more .308 "battle rifles" and would prefer to shoot my AR15 type rifles any day. I still have love for them, just as a collector item.
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