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Posted: 7/24/2019 12:38:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A 13.5 308 SS LMT barrel shooting factory hornady 178 shot by elucidate using lab radar. The 2400 number was a conservative estimate based off the info passed along for the KAC 14.5 upper posted above |
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Posted: 7/24/2019 2:46:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Excellent. Thanks for the insight. I've recently put together a 13.5 LW .308 SS MWS that I need to get out and shoot. I'd be interested in a shorty 6.5C SR-25 upper as well. My 20 inch 6.5 barrel is a shooter so I am not sure I would want to cut it back to 16 but is something to toss around, maybe get a spare barrel and send it to marvin for a cut back and dimples. With that being said I am going to get a 14.5 SR25 when I come home in october, I guess the only question is how far out is the creed more? |
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Posted: 7/24/2019 4:20:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those numbers are from the 14.5". My 22" guns are putting up 2795 with Hornday 140gr ELD-M, and about 2895 with Fed loaded 130gr AR Hybrid. |
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Posted: 7/25/2019 12:39:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am a huge fan of the "Dual Role" concept. A 20" 7.62 is great, until you have to move through a confined space or work in/out of vehicles. A 16" 7.62 is great, but you definitely have to be more "on" with distance and wind than you do with a 20" 7.62. A 14.5" 7.62 is great, but gets dicey at longer ranges, especially if you're using projectiles that have stand-out terminal performance. A 14.5" 6.5 wouldn't be my go-to if I wanted to win a PRS/NRL Match, but it is what I pick up when I go to shoot feral hogs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nice. I've come to really like shorter barrels with a lot of the new bullet designs. I really like my 13.5 MWS and want to pick up a 14.5 ACC when I get home. What are your thoughts on your guys shorter barrels these days? Is this the way we are headed, are longer barrels going to be reserved for bolt guns/Magnus? A 20" 7.62 is great, until you have to move through a confined space or work in/out of vehicles. A 16" 7.62 is great, but you definitely have to be more "on" with distance and wind than you do with a 20" 7.62. A 14.5" 7.62 is great, but gets dicey at longer ranges, especially if you're using projectiles that have stand-out terminal performance. A 14.5" 6.5 wouldn't be my go-to if I wanted to win a PRS/NRL Match, but it is what I pick up when I go to shoot feral hogs.  Feral Hogs in Anderson County SC Patiently making do with a 14.5” Mod 1 until my tax stamps come back on my 30 cal stuff for my ECC. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 8:52:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds good, a 16 or 18" sounds perfect. I wouldn't mind running one in a PRS comp for fun. Suppressed. |
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Posted: 7/27/2019 5:40:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Some pictures I’ve seen online and rumors I’ve heard is that the upper is coming dimpled? Can anyone confirm this on the 22” uppers?
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Posted: 7/27/2019 6:36:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some pictures I’ve seen online and rumors I’ve heard is that the upper is coming dimpled? Can anyone confirm this on the 22” uppers?  Attached File(Taking every chance I can to steal Jack’s thunder in this thread.) |
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Posted: 7/28/2019 2:48:54 AM EDT
[#8]
I’m in that thread, just confirming this is translating to the production guns
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Posted: 7/28/2019 7:25:38 AM EDT
[#9]
https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Is-it-too-early-for-a-SHOT-speculation-thread-/381-280793/&page=1
There is a big ship leaving port KAC could be at the Helm of and that is a 6.5 CM SR25 with a 1:8" twist SS barrel, 18-22". Like an LPR for the SR25 line. Go on and get with Bartlien and work out a deal for SS match barrels. They are known shooters. Stick a MAMS on it, with a barrier stop and bipod & you have an instant KAC runner for PRS type matches. Lapua is releasing 6.5cm brass Q1 2017. That is where the LR market is. I shoot 260 Rem in my AI. If I would have known the CM would have taken off like it did & Lapua would end up making brass for it I would have gone that route. Hell you can find more 6.5CM Match local on the shelf than you can 308. The light recoil, ballistics, and precision of the 6.5 make it a no brainer for a LE marksman. Especially ammo availability. Several local agencies have moved to a 6.5mm of some flavor. Get things worked out where barrel swaps don't cost so much when guys shoot the barrels out. I would call today and place my order if KAC did this. ^ my post from 2016. Very cool to see this working out. |
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Posted: 7/28/2019 8:41:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m in that thread, just confirming this is translating to the production guns It sounds as though it’s the case. Shall see. |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 11:10:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Surprised to see the talk of shorty 6.5 guns now as I thought I saw a post a while back about sub-18" guns being problematic in that caliber.
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Posted: 8/14/2019 1:54:52 PM EDT
[#12]
All these lunchbox pictures are making me really anticipate a shipping notice on the ol 6.5... Come on Christmas
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Posted: 8/14/2019 3:34:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Jack or anyone, what are we anticipating the 6.5 barrels lasting as far as round count before a noticeable degradation on accuracy? Also will KAC do a rebarrel if you put enough rounds down the pipe and the accuracy falls below whatever standard you have established?
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Posted: 8/14/2019 3:45:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jack or anyone, what are we anticipating the 6.5 barrels lasting as far as round count before a noticeable degradation on accuracy? Also will KAC do a rebarrel if you put enough rounds down the pipe and the accuracy falls below whatever standard you have established? |
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Posted: 8/14/2019 4:17:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jack or anyone, what are we anticipating the 6.5 barrels lasting as far as round count before a noticeable degradation on accuracy? Also will KAC do a rebarrel if you put enough rounds down the pipe and the accuracy falls below whatever standard you have established? I was anticipating on having the numbers earlier, but testing has been delayed due to ammo availability. That said, we will indeed replace the barrel when it has exceeded useful life, at the barrel and labor cost. Alternately, you can utilize one of our certified armorers for the service. |
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Posted: 8/14/2019 4:17:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Barrels are a wear item. Like asking ford to replace my tires after I drove 60k miles. |
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Posted: 8/14/2019 4:37:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Barrels are a wear item. Like asking ford to replace my tires after I drove 60k miles. |
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Posted: 8/14/2019 4:39:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't yet reached a determination on barrel life based on velocity loss/increased velocity SD or group size increase from baseline. I was anticipating on having the numbers earlier, but testing has been delayed due to ammo availability. That said, we will indeed replace the barrel when it has exceeded useful life, at the barrel and labor cost. Alternately, you can utilize one of our certified armorers for the service. |
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Posted: 8/15/2019 6:06:27 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 8/17/2019 12:28:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Built, not bought? Lame! Kidding, fantastic upper. Wouldn’t be upset in finding a proof barrel in my upper. My hopes is the barrel that Knights has in these things will make me not want to switch it for a proof.
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Posted: 8/17/2019 10:56:42 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Built, not bought? Lame! Kidding, fantastic upper. Wouldn’t be upset in finding a proof barrel in my upper. My hopes is the barrel that Knights has in these things will make me not want to switch it for a proof. 
Slayin bodies, guddago |
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Posted: 8/18/2019 10:42:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
22" 6.5CM SR25 upper (Proof CF barrel) https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/218654/CC514F75-88B3-4C74-AE67-58411C2CA42E_jpeg-1055609.JPG |
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Posted: 8/21/2019 10:15:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who did all the work to make that? Looks nice I bought the barrel and assembly was done by a friend who knows what he’s doing. 
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Posted: 8/21/2019 1:50:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
22” 6.5CM SR25 upper (Proof CF barrel) https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/218654/CC514F75-88B3-4C74-AE67-58411C2CA42E_jpeg-1055609.JPG |
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Posted: 8/21/2019 2:23:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Flexing on the poors!!! Damn that is sexy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Flexing on the poors!!! Damn that is sexy.  What Length URX 4 is that? I may just build something similar with the last URX 4 Keymod I picked up after seeing this! |
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Posted: 8/22/2019 9:39:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Is the URX 5 going on the 6.5 CM uppers? I know on the website it is still wearing the URX 4, but some of Jack's posts on the gram have shown a different URX... Or is this just some kind of one off magic that we will hardly ever see?
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Posted: 8/22/2019 9:49:41 PM EDT
[#27]
The 22” guns I’ve seen all had PN31887-1770 URX4 rails.
Similar to mine posted above but cerakoted. |
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Posted: 8/30/2019 4:50:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Are any of these out there and being shot?
How do they run suppressed? Clean / dirty? How do they shoot? What bullet do they like? TIA |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 10:25:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are any of these out there and being shot? How do they run suppressed? Clean / dirty? How do they shoot? What bullet do they like? TIA Just like all of our rifles, they are designed as a system inclusive of suppressor, and require no change when going from unsuppressed to suppressed configuration. The standout ammunition is Berger factory loaded with 140gr Berger Hybrid projectiles. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 2:20:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The standout ammunition is Berger factory loaded with 140gr Berger Hybrid projectiles. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 2:59:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shush your pretty mouth, I'm still trying to find good prices and stock on these. Don't let the cat outta the bag!! I didn't shoot a whole lot of it, because it wasn't loaded with the "right" projectile, but I remember that the Hornady American Gunner 140gr shot decently as well. The S&B 140 hovered around 1 MOA for me, but had inconsistent port pressure in some lots, varying from running right in our desired band to barely cycling. I wouldn't be afraid to use it for break-in/training ammo, but I wouldn't shoot a match with it. The first 5 shots from Hornady ELD-M are always pretty nice, but the meplat of the poly tip gets pretty deformed after a few rounds, which data seems to indicate causes increased average dispersion and fliers. When I went to 5-rounds only per magazine (after observing easily visible deformity of the tips after 10 rounds), my 4-group average dispersion was significantly improved over shooting a full 20 per mag. It is the only tipped projectile that I have used, as I have had a prejudice against poly tipped projectiles with semi-auto rifles in general. I hear that there are improvements out there, but I have not yet been able to confirm or deny those claims. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 3:05:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Is the above true of all caliber polymer tipped Ammo?
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Posted: 9/5/2019 3:21:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the above true of all caliber polymer tipped Ammo? My experience is limited to 7.62, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .260 Remington, in relatively low-weight semi-automatic platforms, feeding from 20-round magazines. Initial issues were related to dislodged tips finding their way into the barrel extension/lug area causing guns to go down. I have heard other anecdotal attributions to non-working guns in other calibers due to this (usually 300 BLK), however, I have not personally experienced that, and it could very well have been isolated lot issues that got talked about a lot, resulting in a larger community splash than they deserved. I have had discussions with several well respected ammunition manufacturers that are telling me that there are new tips that aren't susceptible to that issue. The problem is that it takes tens of thousands of rounds to individually verify that information. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 7:18:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just for you: I didn't shoot a whole lot of it, because it wasn't loaded with the "right" projectile, but I remember that the Hornady American Gunner 140gr shot decently as well. The S&B 140 hovered around 1 MOA for me, but had inconsistent port pressure in some lots, varying from running right in our desired band to barely cycling. I wouldn't be afraid to use it for break-in/training ammo, but I wouldn't shoot a match with it. Edit to add: AG 140 is already on the short list of ammo to try on that upper |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 12:38:39 AM EDT
[#35]
The 140 American Gunner shoots good in my LMT. Off the top of my head I’m seeing 2675 FPS out of a 24” barrel and accuracy around 0.7moa consistently.
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Posted: 9/6/2019 11:18:20 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The first 5 shots from Hornady ELD-M are always pretty nice, but the meplat of the poly tip gets pretty deformed after a few rounds, which data seems to indicate causes increased average dispersion and fliers. When I went to 5-rounds only per magazine (after observing easily visible deformity of the tips after 10 rounds), my 4-group average dispersion was significantly improved over shooting a full 20 per mag. It is the only tipped projectile that I have used, as I have had a prejudice against poly tipped projectiles with semi-auto rifles in general. I hear that there are improvements out there, but I have not yet been able to confirm or deny those claims. Lunch Box gun will be my first large frame gas gun, I have dies ready for it in 308 and 6.5 depending on what the final caliber will be. Have 10+ KAC mags as well since I heard they have the longest OAL of any SR25/AR10 mags. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 11:22:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Any testing with the hornady A-tips.
A little pricey but interesting. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 11:48:38 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have 10+ KAC mags as well since I heard they have the longest OAL of any SR25/AR10 mags. 
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Posted: 9/6/2019 11:58:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 140 American Gunner shoots good in my LMT. Off the top of my head I’m seeing 2675 FPS out of a 24” barrel and accuracy around 0.7moa consistently. For reference, I'm getting 2704 with the Berger 140gr from a 22" barrel. 2514 from a 16", 2431 from 14.5". |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 12:00:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Larue’s mags allow for a tiny bit more OAL cartridge length. A little bit more internal room in the mags. I have 5 just for 6.5CM |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 12:02:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are the factory ELDM OAL near the length limit of KAC mags? I currently hand load 6.5 for a bolt gun and in AICS mags there is plenty to work with from factory loads and length. Lunch Box gun will be my first large frame gas gun, I have dies ready for it in 308 and 6.5 depending on what the final caliber will be. Have 10+ KAC mags as well since I heard they have the longest OAL of any SR25/AR10 mags. Interestingly, all of the tips were pushed upward in deformity, not downward. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 12:14:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had not heard that before. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 12:29:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are very few that have gone out commercially. Just like all of our rifles, they are designed as a system inclusive of suppressor, and require no change when going from unsuppressed to suppressed configuration. The standout ammunition is Berger factory loaded with 140gr Berger Hybrid projectiles. That 140 Berger load - is that a pressure curve that it was designed around or is that just the load and bullet combo that seems to group best? *I* think that 22” upper is going to be like a large LPR, and even though with my SF can it will be like 31” I am looking forward to these. I have spots that I routinely shoot from 500 to 1 mile. A 16” upper probably makes a more sense for the widest applications, but I want legs, esp at night. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 12:35:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah, plenty of room, but in all of them the rounds will move forward and the meplat will touch the front of the mag under recoil. Interestingly, all of the tips were pushed upward in deformity, not downward. Any thoughts on H4350 powder for gas gun loads? It's generally the first to be recommended for bolt action 6.5 loading. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 12:46:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me double check my KAC and Larue 20 round mags real quick. I don't want to be spewing BS (more than usual anyways). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I had not heard that before. Larue measured at 2.8825" KAC measured at 2.8750" I used a Mitutoyo CD67 digi mic |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 11:39:06 PM EDT
[#46]
I have some of the Hornady ELDM in my KAC mags, they don’t seem to have a problem with fitting in the mag.
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Posted: 9/9/2019 12:07:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I have some of the Hornady ELDM in my KAC mags, they don’t seem to have a problem with fitting in the mag. My comment about the Larue mags having more space was directed more towards the reloading aspect of JSchell’s inquiry. If he needed more room to accommodate longer OAL. Edit: and I’d like to reiterate it really is a negligible difference. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 5:11:53 PM EDT
[#48]
I ran my bolt gun with a 16 inch 6.5CM. 16 is plenty. I’d be happy to buy one from KAC right now! Please release those haha
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Posted: 9/26/2019 5:30:21 PM EDT
[#49]
I thought FRBaseball had posted the opposite, that the KAC mags edged out the Larues.
I've only personally measured KAC, Magpul, and Lancer. |
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Posted: 9/26/2019 6:34:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought FRBaseball had posted the opposite, that the KAC mags edged out the Larues. I've only personally measured KAC, Magpul, and Lancer. I can only speak in regards to mine. Both use the same thickness steel, the Larue just has a slightly different contour along the spine. |
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